Official Tesla Model Y Thread

[dgpcolorado]

I had him use 6 gauge wire even though it was a very short run because I wanted it to handle a continuous high current with minimal voltage drop.

Was this THHN in conduit? A circuit using NM-B cable requires 6 gauge wire or bigger for 50A.

¾ inch metal conduit, because it was exposed. My electrician said that 8 gauge was code for a short run in conduit but I always wanted 6 gauge. It replaced the half inch conduit I used for the L6-20 outlet for my LEAF — I did that installation myself. Everything needed to be replaced: breaker, wire, conduit, box, receptacle.

Tesla requires only three wires, since they don't use the neutral for a 240 V EVSE, but I have four wires to my 14-50, of course. My 14-50 installation:


^ The meter is just for fun. Back in the early days we didn't know much about efficiency of charging or how much energy EVs would use. It currently reads 18,161 kWh, so that's my total home charging over ten years, all of it solar powered.

Never got around to buying a 14-50 adapter for my Gen2 Mobile Connector (MC). I use a 14-30 adapter, with the neutral pin cut off, on my 14-50 outlet. 24 amps at 240 V (5.76 kW) is plenty for home charging. That adapter helps when using my TT-30 to 14-50 adapter at campgrounds with "30 amp" service since it automatically limits current to 24 amps. TT-30 (120 V x 24 A) is slow but useful overnight — twice as fast as a standard NEMA 5-15 outlet.

[I'll point out that EVSEadapters.com makes a Gen2 TT-30 adapter nowadays so my setup isn't necessary; I already had my old TT-30p to 14-50r adapter and continue to use it. For a better approach to TT-30 charging:
https://www.evseadapters.com/products/tt-30-adapter-for-tesla-model-s-x-3-gen-2/ The "TT" refers to "Travel Trailer," by the way.]

 

[Flyct]

2 Questions for Y owners. My friend ordered a Y to be delivered next week. He won’t have charging capability at his house yet and may need to charge at my house either using my Nissan EVSE or my 50 amp receptacle.

Does the Y come with an adaptor so he can use my Leaf L2 J1772 EVSE?

Does the Y come equipped with an adaptor to plug into a 50 amp 14-50R receptacle?

Thanks in advance.

Update

My vacation cabin neighbor friend received his Model Y Friday. It’s a really nice car. He optioned it with 3rd row seats, Grey color, upgraded wheels and autopilot which brought the price up to almost $70,000 with taxes etc.

He drove to our vacation cabin Saturday with 22% charge remaining. He hadn’t yet ordered the 14-50 adapter for his Tesla EVSE so we used my Nissan EVSE with his J1772 to Tesla adapter. According to his screen it charged at 30 amps and 7kW. It took 10 hours to go from 22%-100%. He ordered a 14-50 adapter which should arrive this week. Looking at my power usage it cost 80cents/hour (10 cents/kW).. My electric cost for the day was $11.26 where it normally is about $3/day.

He plans on installing a 50a 14-50 at his cabin. Until then he will use my 50a 14-50R with his Tesla EVSE when he comes fir the weekends.

 

[goldbrick]

My 14-50 installation:


^ The meter is just for fun. Back in the early days we didn't know much about efficiency of charging or how much energy EVs would use. It currently reads 18,161 kWh, so that's my total home charging over ten years, all of it solar powered.

That's cool.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My 14-50 installation:


^ The meter is just for fun. Back in the early days we didn't know much about efficiency of charging or how much energy EVs would use. It currently reads 18,161 kWh, so that's my total home charging over ten years, all of it solar powered.

That's cool.

If anyone is interested in tracking usage for their EVSE, refurb meters are available from Hialeah Meter in Florida.

EZ Read Meter:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/eawame.html

100 A socket:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/4msa4t4410012.html

Wiring diagram for three wire 240 V:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-97927213475128_2193_13875979

It is an easy DIY project. First read about it here at MNL a decade ago.

 

[Flyct]

2 Questions for Y owners. My friend ordered a Y to be delivered next week. He won’t have charging capability at his house yet and may need to charge at my house either using my Nissan EVSE or my 50 amp receptacle.

Does the Y come with an adaptor so he can use my Leaf L2 J1772 EVSE?

Does the Y come equipped with an adaptor to plug into a 50 amp 14-50R receptacle?

Thanks in advance.

Update

My vacation cabin neighbor friend received his Model Y Friday. It’s a really nice car. He optioned it with 3rd row seats, Grey color, upgraded wheels and autopilot which brought the price up to almost $70,000 with taxes etc.

He drove to our vacation cabin Saturday with 22% charge remaining. He hadn’t yet ordered the 14-50 adapter for his Tesla EVSE so we used my Nissan EVSE with his J1772 to Tesla adapter. According to his screen it charged at 30 amps and 7kW. It took 10 hours to go from 22%-100%. He ordered a 14-50 adapter which should arrive this week. Looking at my power usage it cost 80cents/hour (10 cents/kW).. My electric cost for the day was $11.26 where it normally is about $3/day.

He plans on installing a 50a 14-50 at his cabin. Until then he will use my 50a 14-50R with his Tesla EVSE when he comes fir the weekends.

2nd update. My friend purchased a switching device to share his 30: amp 240v dryer outlet. For now when at the cabin he runs the cord out his kitchen door.

My friend is a long time practicing MD with a thriving specialty practice. He owns 4 houses, 2 airplanes, 11 horses and 22 Vehicles with tags (trucks, motorcycles, RV, horse trailers, utility trailers, multiple cars etc). Yet he is resistant to install a decent L2 charger. He just reroofed one of his homes at a cost of $75,000 for the roof.

Different people have different priorities.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My 14-50 installation:


^ The meter is just for fun. Back in the early days we didn't know much about efficiency of charging or how much energy EVs would use. It currently reads 18,161 kWh, so that's my total home charging over ten years, all of it solar powered.

That's cool.

If anyone is interested in tracking usage for their EVSE, refurb meters are available from Hialeah Meter in Florida.

EZ Read Meter:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/eawame.html

100 A socket:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/4msa4t4410012.html

Wiring diagram for three wire 240 V:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-97927213475128_2193_13875979

It is an easy DIY project. First read about it here at MNL a decade ago.

yeah, I posted that pix when I first made the claim that 120 volt charging at 12 amps was only 75% efficient. Got a LOT of flack for that statement BUT.... it slowly died down as people started measuring

 

[dgpcolorado]

That's cool.

If anyone is interested in tracking usage for their EVSE, refurb meters are available from Hialeah Meter in Florida.

EZ Read Meter:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/eawame.html

100 A socket:
https://www.hialeahmeter.com/4msa4t4410012.html

Wiring diagram for three wire 240 V:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-97927213475128_2193_13875979

It is an easy DIY project. First read about it here at MNL a decade ago.

yeah, I posted that pix when I first made the claim that 120 volt charging at 12 amps was only 75% efficient. Got a LOT of flack for that statement BUT.... it slowly died down as people started measuring

I remember that controversy! And, yes, I wanted to measure efficiency for myself. I was also trying to figure out energy usage in the early days so that I could know how much to expand my solar array, which I did in 2012, to 2170 kW total — haven't paid an electric bill since, save for the monthly service charge.

Back in the early days we didn't really have a good handle on real miles/kWh for the LEAF, or charging efficiency. Now all that stuff is well-known. My now old Model S-60 has been running at about 265 Wh/mile for the last 73,000 miles — not as good as the LEAF (or Model Y) but not too bad for a big car, on which most of the mileage is from long road trips of thousands of miles. (I've put 111k miles on it in five and a half years and visited 262 different Supercharger Stations in 21 states and provinces.)

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla Model Y Gets Another $1,000 Price Increase
https://teslamotorsclub.com/2021/11/12/tesla-model-y-gets-another-1000-price-increase/

Seems to start at $58,990 + $1,200 dest and doc fee + tax and license.

 

[LeftieBiker]

A bargain at half the price!

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

With every price increase, I feel like our Pluses are a better deal.

A handyman was doing some work in our house this week. He had a 2020 M3 LR and was asking some questions about our Leafs as he was working in the garage. He was impressed by the comparative Leaf Plus range (given the cost differences...certainly M3 LR has more range and is faster). We traded some road trip stories. He also noticed the high efficiency rims in the Plus.

One gripe he had (unsolicited) was that the range after 1 1/2 years had dropped by almost 10% (316 ->286 were the exact figures he quoted). And while it had not been an issue yet with his driving needs, he was surprised at the size of the fall. (The other gripe was that suspension was very much lacking from the BMWs he was used to..and has an i4 on order). I am curious if the new MYs and M3s are doing better in the early degradation part if the curve.

My neighborhood neighborhood MY from July, but have not had a chance to ask him about any changes in rated range. The LFP batteries are supposed to handle high SoC better without degradation, aren't they?

 

[SageBrush]

One gripe he had (unsolicited) was that the range after 1 1/2 years had dropped by almost 10% (316 ->286 were the exact figures he quoted). And while it had not been an issue yet with his driving needs, he was surprised at the size of the fall.

I have told you on numerous occasions that the rated range is subject to calibration errors depending on the charging routine.

Would you please stop trolling ?

---
My car is not subject to calibration errors due to my charging routine. It shows 304 rated miles when fully charged the last time I checked, but it meanders between 304 - 309.

Figuring out degradation is tricky, in part because sometimes Tesla starts with a rated miles number that is less than EPA raw testing. This can be circumvented by knowing the internal Wh/mile constant for the specific model (mine is 237) and using EPA raw data. My car model was EPA raw tested as 324 miles range, which works out to 324*0.237 = 76.79 kWh usable capacity when new. As reported by 'Scan my Tesla (SMT)' today, my full nominal capacity is 71.5 kWh. That works out to 6.9% capacity loss over 41 months or 2% a year.

Since Tesla packs typically have a 3% - 5% degradation the first year and then a much slower and steady degradation thereafter, the anticipated long-term pack degradation after the first year until car old age is less than 1% per year.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Sage, my question was earnest. Do the LFP batteries have a different initial degradatuon curve and manage high SoC better. I have seen chatter about it, but nothing really data based.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sage, my question was earnest. Do the LFP batteries have a different initial degradatuon curve and manage high SoC better. I have seen chatter about it, but nothing really data based.

Don't think you will find real answers until they hit the streets in bulk and drivers start reporting back.

 

[GRA]

Sage, my question was earnest. Do the LFP batteries have a different initial degradatuon curve and manage high SoC better. I have seen chatter about it, but nothing really data based.

For some basic info on LFP vs. other chemistries, there's always https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-205-types-of-lithium-ion, which among other things says:

The key benefits are high current rating and long cycle life, besides good thermal stability, enhanced safety and tolerance if abused.

Li-phosphate is more tolerant to full charge conditions and is less stressed than other lithium-ion systems if kept at high voltage for a prolonged time. (See BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries). As a trade-off, its lower nominal voltage of 3.2V/cell reduces the specific energy below that of cobalt-blended lithium-ion. With most batteries, cold temperature reduces performance and elevated storage temperature shortens the service life, and Li-phosphate is no exception. Li-phosphate has a higher self-discharge than other Li-ion batteries, which can cause balancing issues with aging. This can be mitigated by buying high quality cells and/or using sophisticated control electronics, both of which increase the cost of the pack. Cleanliness in manufacturing is of importance for longevity. There is no tolerance for moisture, lest the battery will only deliver 50 cycles. Figure 9 summarizes the attributes of Li-phosphate.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Li-Phosphate (much more commonly known as LiFePo4 or "Lithium Iron") batteries are generally better than other types of lithium batteries. They are much safer, and more tolerant of high SOC. The reason that they have been passed over for large EVs like cars is that they can't store nearly as much energy per unit volume or weight. With efforts being directed toward increasing vehicle range, they just can't compete with other lithium chemistries. They do seem to have found a large niche, though: whereas a few years ago they seemed to be going extinct, now they are being sold as safe, high capacity (compared to lead-acid they have twice as much), UPS, solar, and even automotive starting batteries. I just bought two of them, one for our sump pump UPS, and one to provide emergency heat in my bedroom, in conjunction with an inverter and a small ceramic heater or two. I also used them for years in my old EZIP e-bikes.

 

[SageBrush]

Li-Phosphate (much more commonly known as LiFePo4 or "Lithium Iron") batteries are generally better than other types of lithium batteries. They are much safer, and more tolerant of high SOC. The reason that they have been passed over for large EVs like cars is that they can't store nearly as much energy per unit volume or weight. With efforts being directed toward increasing vehicle range, they just can't compete with other lithium chemistries. They do seem to have found a large niche, though: whereas a few years ago they seemed to be going extinct, now they are being sold as safe, high capacity (compared to lead-acid they have twice as much), UPS, solar, and even automotive starting batteries. I just bought two of them, one for our sump pump UPS, and one to provide emergency heat in my bedroom, in conjunction with an inverter and a small ceramic heater or two. I also used them for years in my old EZIP e-bikes.

Pretty fair summary, I would only add performance issues in the cold although I think there are work-arounds.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't think that LiFePo4 batteries are a lot worse than other Li chemistries in the cold, although I can't say for sure. I do know that My EZIP with LiFePo4 Ping Pack performed well enough in sub-freezing temps. I never did try it in really frigid temps, though. LiFePo4 packs sold for use outdoors usually come with an integrated heater.
LiPo packs instead come with warnings about fire and explosions if used - and especially charged - in sub-freezing temps.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I would just like an ev where I would just plug it for 100% every night and not cringe that I am impacting the battery long term.

 

[Nubo]

Li-Phosphate (much more commonly known as LiFePo4 or "Lithium Iron") batteries are generally better than other types of lithium batteries. They are much safer, and more tolerant of high SOC. The reason that they have been passed over for large EVs like cars is that they can't store nearly as much energy per unit volume or weight. With efforts being directed toward increasing vehicle range, they just can't compete with other lithium chemistries. They do seem to have found a large niche, though: whereas a few years ago they seemed to be going extinct, now they are being sold as safe, high capacity (compared to lead-acid they have twice as much), UPS, solar, and even automotive starting batteries. I just bought two of them, one for our sump pump UPS, and one to provide emergency heat in my bedroom, in conjunction with an inverter and a small ceramic heater or two. I also used them for years in my old EZIP e-bikes.

You know they're making a big comeback because the cool kids have changed the acronym to "LFP". :lol:

In honesty It seems improvements have made them viable for EV packs even if they are still behind other chemistries in initial volumetric and gravimetric density. According to this fellow on Youtube who seems to do his homework, the range of an LFP pack could be lower when new but overtake the range of a cobalt/nickel pack after several years because of its gentler degradation curve. Add in the greater safety margin against thermal runaway and it seems compelling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdZL8RF3thI

Million-mile pack, anyone?

I made up a pack of 8x40AH LiFePO cells for my lawnmower project and noticed minimal degradation over the course of 6 years; couldn't really even quantify it. The pack was always charged after use to 3.5V per cell (max recommended was 3.6V iirc). So they spent almost all their time at high state of charge.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Hmm... we have a battery electric B&D lawnmower that is on only its second battery pack in 25 years. It uses those newfangled "sealed lead-acid" batteries. So I suspect that a well-treated mower battery that wasn't defective would last quite a while regardless of the chemistry. The real test would be to put them in a car and give them to someone who panics when the SOC drops to 90% - or who happily drives down to 5% regularly.