danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue May 07, 2019 5:46 pm

Thanks guys

I'll figure out something

Back to battery questions

Why did my level 1 / 2 charges jump from 6 to 13 in one night?

I'm sure its total statistical noise but I'm loosing .01 soh each day, same with AHrs but HX has been going up about 0.1 per day.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue May 07, 2019 6:21 pm

Timer charges tend to get counted twice. It's a known, longstanding glitch. Were there any brownouts, no matter how brief?
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danrjones
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue May 07, 2019 7:40 pm

Not that I'm aware of.

I'll see what it does tonight on lvl 1.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 8:32 am

I charged last night for 8 hours exactly on 120v and it went from 48% to 74%, which actually seems pretty reasonable given 1400 watts it says its doing. (~ 1400x8 = 11.2 Kw, 74% - 48% = 26%, not including losses and such, but its close)

I have noticed, as someone here pointed out, that there doesn't seem to be much heat generated from Lvl1. At 10pm the battery temp bar was exactly in the middle and at 6:30am, right when it finished charging (10:30p to 6:30a) the battery temp bar was actually 2 notches below half. So despite charging all night it actually got colder due obviously to the lower temperatures outside.

So my question, even though I do need lvl 2 charging, I'm wondering if charging lvl1 sometimes when its very hot at night would be better for the battery. Once I get a lvl2 installed I can compare.
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lorenfb
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 8:59 am

danrjones wrote:the battery temp bar was actually 2 notches below half.
Is your temp gauge segmented (notches)?
danrjones wrote: So my question, even though I do need lvl 2 charging, I'm wondering if charging lvl1 sometimes when its very hot at night would be better for the battery. Once I get a lvl2 installed I can compare.
Yes. The battery power dissipation is I^2 X R (battery resistance) while charging;

Power (L1) = I ^2 X R
Power (L2) = (2I) ^2 X R = 4 X Power (L1)
but T2 = T1/2

So the heat energy (power X time) supplied to battery is 2X for L2 versus L1.

You can adjust the numbers based the actual L1 versus L2 currents and times.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 9:30 am

lorenfb wrote:
danrjones wrote:the battery temp bar was actually 2 notches below half.
Is your temp gauge segmented (notches)?
danrjones wrote: So my question, even though I do need lvl 2 charging, I'm wondering if charging lvl1 sometimes when its very hot at night would be better for the battery. Once I get a lvl2 installed I can compare.
Yes. The battery power dissipation is I^2 X R (battery resistance) while charging;

Power (L1) = I ^2 X R
Power (L2) = (2I) ^2 X R = 4 X Power (L1)
but T2 = T1/2

So the heat energy (power X time) supplied to battery is 2X for L2 versus L1.
hmmm...
L2 may be twice the current but it is also twice the voltage so
T2 = 0.25 of T1
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lorenfb
Posts: 2353
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 10:41 am

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
danrjones wrote:the battery temp bar was actually 2 notches below half.
Is your temp gauge segmented (notches)?
danrjones wrote: So my question, even though I do need lvl 2 charging, I'm wondering if charging lvl1 sometimes when its very hot at night would be better for the battery. Once I get a lvl2 installed I can compare.
Yes. The battery power dissipation is I^2 X R (battery resistance) while charging;

Power (L1) = I ^2 X R
Power (L2) = (2I) ^2 X R = 4 X Power (L1)
but T2 = T1/2

So the heat energy (power X time) supplied to battery is 2X for L2 versus L1.
hmmm...
L2 may be twice the current but it is also twice the voltage so
T2 = 0.25 of T1
You can adjust the numbers based the actual L1 versus L2 currents and times.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

danrjones
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 12:04 pm

It sounds like Lvl2 produces more heat total, but even it was the same heat it would be a much shorter time, which wouldn't allow for it to disperse.

I checked at lunch and the single long lvl 1 charge increased my charge count in leafspy by 3.


I also noticed today my Hx jumped up by a full 0.1. SOH stayed the same so far today.
Reading through the threads here I have discovered Hx was the old battery health meter before SOH was created / discovered.
There didn't seem to be a consensus for what it mean now, especially for the 2018's.

anyway, 1 lvl 1 night = 3 charges.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

lorenfb
Posts: 2353
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 1:22 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Is your temp gauge segmented (notches)?



Yes. The battery power dissipation is I^2 X R (battery resistance) while charging;

Power (L1) = I ^2 X R
Power (L2) = (2I) ^2 X R = 4 X Power (L1)
but T2 = T1/2

So the heat energy (power X time) supplied to battery is 2X for L2 versus L1.
hmmm...
L2 may be twice the current but it is also twice the voltage so
T2 = 0.25 of T1
You can adjust the numbers based the actual L1 versus L2 currents and times.
Remember, during any charge mode (L1/L2/L3) the battery voltage is basically the same, approx. 370 - 400. During L1/L2 the EVSE output voltage is changed (scaled) by the inverter to the 370 - 400. For L3, The DC source is in the same D.C. range.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

danrjones
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed May 08, 2019 1:50 pm

This will be interesting in July.

Last night at 10pm it was 80f and the battery temp was smack in the middle,
lvl 1 charged all night, 60f this morning at 6am, and the battery temp was down a couple chunks (not sure if its bars, all I see is a constant bar left to right)

But in July when its 105 at 10pm and 78 at 6am, I'm wondering if lvl 1 charging all night (8 hrs) or lvl 2 charging for say 2 hours (4am to 6am) will end up thermally better / worse.

I guess I can try both and see.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

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