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Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:33 pm

My reasons are likely quite different than most:

1. My off-grid backup needs are about 10-15 kwh for an average day.
2. A good Li based battery backup with BMS is about 45-50 cents/Watt-hr (no Tesla Powerwall 2 available at that time).
3. I had the chance to buy a super-clean 2012 leaf with 9 bars in January of last year for $9500 (probably did pay too much, but an SL that is like new in every way).
4. After research, decided that (here in Texas) my chance of getting a fresh 24 kwh battery under warranty was very good - which recently has occurred.
5. Bought the Leaf. Currently installing the solar charging system and designing the inverter system to power my 240 VAC off-grid sub-panel from the Leaf - admittedly somewhat of a crap shoot, but confident it will be done. I have a "PriUPS" system for power generation and this is not that much different.
6. As a result, I've grown to absolutely love the Leaf in every way for my "suburban" driving (my other vehicle is a Suburban). I've saved over $1000 in gasoline, feel good about using off peak electricity rather than gasoline and love the way the Leaf drives. My wife has gotten used to the "frog" and goes everywhere in it.

Don't know that I'd make the same decisions now with all the Tesla promises, but no regrets what-so-ever. So, there are many reasons why someone, somewhere might buy a Nissan Leaf right now!
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:11 am

Has anyone done a rigorous analysis of costs of operating two used vehicles?

This is my grosso modo (SWAG) take on my Suburban and Leaf:

Initial cost of Suburban - $40,000
Current value of Suburban - $20,000
Initial cost of Leaf - $10,000
Annual maintenance/insurance costs - 3% of initial cost/yr
"Depreciation" - use 50,000 miles life to zero value => Current Value/50,000 = $/miles (OK this is VERY simple)
Electrical costs - 10 cents/KWH; 4 miles/KWH
Gas costs - $2/gal average; 18 MPG
Miles per year = 10,000

Results:
Leaf = 26 cents/mile = $2600/year
Suburban = 63 cents/mile = $6300/year

Comments;
- The leaf costs are likely higher for most people because insurance seems relatively expensive for the Leaf, however, I have liability ONLY for my Leaf.
- Maintenance costs (% of costs) are likely higher for the Suburban than the Leaf, however I did use the new cost of the Suburban and the purchase cost of the Leaf.
- "Depreciation" can be calculated rigorously based on actual miles, age of vehicle and condition, but KISS, used current values and expected miles to essentially zero value to give a cents/mile. This IS the largest cost driver.
- Tax situation will change results (what else is new?).
- Did I forget a major expense that would significantly effect the relative amounts (about 2 times the cost/mile for the Suburban)?
- The point being (for me at least) is that annual savings are significantly greater than simply comparing "fuel" costs. I need both vehicles as my business requires heavy hauling at times. In fact, purchasing the Leaf has allowed me to postpone purchasing a new Suburban for 2-3 years - at a significant savings! It appears for my case that every mile I put on the Leaf, I save around 30 cents.

Welcome anyone's experience or pointers on a better comparison method!
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

Carl
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2016
Location: Vermont

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:48 pm

I just bought an off-lease 2015 SV with Quick Charge and a couple other add-ons, with 3500 miles, for $11,200. I wouldn't buy a new Leaf (in fact, this is the newest car I've had since I first owned a car in 1986), and next year the deals on off-lease Leafs may be even better, but I was pleased with what I got for my money.
2015 Leaf SV
Vermont

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14807
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:04 am

I have previously stated there has not been a time yet that the LEAF was worth buying but may have to change that statement since I am now seeing new 30 kwh 2016's selling for a price that is much closer to their actual value. But then again, I am still leasing and I am still right.

If you need details for my logic, ask me in 5 days
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:36 am

MMM wrote a good article explaining how to analyze the cost advantages of owning a BEV.

My total out-of-pocket cost with tax was about $6,000 more than he paid.

But I saved ~$7,000 on gas alone (not to mention the many other costs and headaches of owning an ICEV) in the last 5.5 years.
Opinion: How to buy a $35,000 brand-new electric car for under $14,000

...The only thing keeping more people from ditching gasoline is that people don’t realize how freaking amazing electric cars are, and they also don’t realize you can now get one for the less than the price of a Honda Fit.

Out of a dozen or more options on the market, I chose the Nissan Leaf because in my mind, it offered the best price/performance ratio and is the most widely available on both new and used markets across the U.S. As you’ll see below, it could actually be considered a cost-effective choice despite the rapidly changing technology...
my total out-of-pocket cost with tax will be $16,000, which is equivalent to buying a brand-new car with a list price of $14,775. This is right around the price of the cheapest new cars you can get in the U.S. these days...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to ... 2016-11-02

The Nissan Leaf Experiment


In September 2016 I bought a brand-new Nissan Leaf SV with the new 25% bigger battery (30 kWh) This page will keep track of ongoing data, modifications, observations, and such...
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-niss ... xperiment/
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 11942
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:32 pm

New low-100 mile range BEVs will be an even better deal after the Bolt arrives, as the price will have to drop below $30k (well below in the case of ~ 24kWh cars). For anything over $30k, why wouldn't you double your range and useful lifespan for < $7.5k more? After all, when the Bolt's battery is down to 33%, it will still have more range than the LEAF did when it was introduced.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14807
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:08 am

edatoakrun wrote:MMM wrote a good article explaining how to analyze the cost advantages of owning a BEV.

My total out-of-pocket cost with tax was about $6,000 more than he paid.

But I saved ~$7,000 on gas alone (not to mention the many other costs and headaches of owning an ICEV) in the last 5.5 years.
Opinion: How to buy a $35,000 brand-new electric car for under $14,000

...The only thing keeping more people from ditching gasoline is that people don’t realize how freaking amazing electric cars are, and they also don’t realize you can now get one for the less than the price of a Honda Fit.

Out of a dozen or more options on the market, I chose the Nissan Leaf because in my mind, it offered the best price/performance ratio and is the most widely available on both new and used markets across the U.S. As you’ll see below, it could actually be considered a cost-effective choice despite the rapidly changing technology...
my total out-of-pocket cost with tax will be $16,000, which is equivalent to buying a brand-new car with a list price of $14,775. This is right around the price of the cheapest new cars you can get in the U.S. these days...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to ... 2016-11-02

The Nissan Leaf Experiment


In September 2016 I bought a brand-new Nissan Leaf SV with the new 25% bigger battery (30 kWh) This page will keep track of ongoing data, modifications, observations, and such...
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-niss ... xperiment/

stay tuned for an article on how to lease a $33,700 LEAF for half off... (granted leasing not as lucrative as buying but it will do!!)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

valem
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:24 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 405151

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:22 pm

I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.
2013 Silver SL 35,800 mi
Tinted windows.
Battery replaced 05/15/17 @ 29,677 mi

valem
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:24 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 405151

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:45 pm

... and my new (babied as shit) lizard battery replaced 2 years ago, is already down to 89% SOH 11% in 2 years ... wow ... and yes, I can tell by the range, I am keeping a very close record, and will share here soon
2013 Silver SL 35,800 mi
Tinted windows.
Battery replaced 05/15/17 @ 29,677 mi

rogersleaf
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:07 pm

valem wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:22 pm
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.
The simple answer is net price point. The loaded '19 Leaf SL 40KWh I purchased had a net price slightly under $25K factoring in Federal Tax Credit, Utility rebate, and some special pricing negotiated between Nissan and the utility company. That's in a state that all but penalizes for purchasing an EV, not incentivising them. Show me a comparable price point on any new M3 and would be happy to consider it.

The more complex answer involves some body hardware choices and the rear wheel drive of that base M3 that might be fine for sunny California but I already know is a bad idea in this cold snowy climate with highly corrosive road conditions. The reality is the M3 is closer to $50K to make it work for my needs. That's an investment level that way too high for my daily commuter given the ghetto neighborhood where I commonly work.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

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