Adding a Brusa charger under the hood for '11/'12s

[JasonA]

Just currious, how come EVERYBODY sackrides and promotes Phil and his store.. and Chris/openEVSE links to him, etc,etc.. but never gets warned?

Victor comes on, helps out (which Phil really doesn't do but the opposite- see battery and charging thread) and then gets hammered?

What is it about this place?

 

[davewill]

Just currious, how come EVERYBODY sackrides and promotes Phil and his store.. and Chris/openEVSE links to him, etc,etc.. but never gets warned?

Victor comes on, helps out (which Phil really doesn't do but the opposite- see battery and charging thread) and then gets hammered?

What is it about this place?

Because they are forum supporters and Victor isn't? It is a pretty clear rule of the forum, but Victor refuses to play. The mods have cut him slack because he seems genuinely interested in contributing to the forum and the cost of being a forum supporter isn't worth fighting over, I guess. Personally, I hold it against him, at least a little bit. He could pony up a few bucks, have clear freedom to talk about his products, but instead he prefers to try make some obscure point that makes no sense to me. He names his user name for his company, but insists on pretending that he isn't interested in promoting it. :roll: Whatever. The mods are willing to let him stay and that's good enough for me.

P.S. Chris Howell has contributed as much to this forum as ANYONE. The OpenEVSE effort is, IMHO, the second most useful project this forum has seen (with Turbo3's LEAF Battery App taking #1). Only recently has he started to commercialize it, and his efforts are 100% above board. Phil has also helped many folks on here, giving tons of free advice on home wiring. He does promote his products, but he has done it completely openly.

 

[KillaWhat]

How much is this "support" fee?
Can we just chip in and pay it?
I know it's not about the Money with Victor, but I don't want to get in the middle of a Richard measuring contest when I need help with these projects.
I'm WAY our on a limb with my Brusa, and am trying my best to climb out on another one with a DCQC project.
I need what these people know, and Victor in particular.

How can I contribute $20 toward this vendor thing.
Please take this seriously.

William

 

[davewill]

How much is this "support" fee?
Can we just chip in and pay it? ...

I agree on the Johnson Cup competition. The fee is $15, I believe. He claimed it was the principle of the thing. He wasn't going to pay (or let others pay for him). He seems to object to the term "donation" used to describe something that is required. Anyway, from what I could see, no one is threatening to ban him again. Drees just tried to give him some advice via PM, and it didn't go over well.

 

[Ingineer]

Just currious, how come EVERYBODY sackrides and promotes Phil and his store.. and Chris/openEVSE links to him, etc,etc.. but never gets warned?

Victor comes on, helps out (which Phil really doesn't do but the opposite- see battery and charging thread) and then gets hammered?

What is it about this place?

First off, I've been a forum supporter for a long time, and not just with the little "supporter" fee, I support the board with monthly advertising as well. I am a founding member of the largest EV owners club in the world, and I also help everyone where I can. I want the EV to succeed, and I want to see it work for as many people as possible. I gave up my normal day job with a cut in pay to help EV owners out. You're a relative newcomer to this forum. If you spent some time reading the historical posts you'd know all this.

Everyone with a Brusa under their hood is directly benefiting from my original engineering work. I have certain agreements with other parties regarding what technology I can share, and what I can't. I also will not "help" someone do something dangerous or that could harm their car. You all have copied my original design, but you don't see not complaining or telling people not to do it.

I will continue to put as much free time as I can muster into assisting EV owners, I will not be dissuaded by all the juvenile name calling.

-Phil

 

[JasonA]

I had a nice long "kinda caustic" response to the above.. and then right before I hit SUBMIT.. i said... why?

This stuff tires and bores me and gets everything off point. I will say one thing publicly "nice" about Phil & EVDRIVER (are they the same person?? :lol: )..

Reading in the BAT& charging section.. the debate going on with you 2 and Valery.. there are ALOT of good points brought up... and those are worth being noted especially for us doing work or others considering the ROMBO stuff..

Open discussion is always a great thing... never being closed off. I know I appreciate your technical input (when its added).

It will only further ALL of our interests.

 

[JeremyW]

Mission Accomplished.

Thanks to a ton of help from Jason, we were able to install my brusa today (er yesterday now).

Could use some cleaning up, but it works!

 

[JasonA]

Here's the video that I took yesterday of Jeremy's setup...

In the end, this was quite a journey and only just the start! Even though there's 4 others out there doing this, there's even more power to be had "under the hood"

http://youtu.be/y49qvtREu1c

I will start another thread here soon on the new "secret project"

 

[JeremyW]

Ahem, I am now tripping the 120v gfi outlets at my work. This is with my EVSE upgrade but it's not at fault here. Basically the outlet trips as soon as the charge light comes on the EVSE. I think there's enough leakage current between both chargers to cause a trip. 5ma is really low... But still a bummer.

 

[JeremyW]

I thought of a way around the GFI issue. I might want to have a separate AC cable for the Brusa for use on 120v. That way I can use my EVSE upgrade for the original OBC, and plug the Brusa in on a separate circuit with a cable going directly into it. Phil does this by having a L6-20 plug and socket in the line going to the J1772 inlet. It makes it easy then to break the connection and run a separate power cord for the Brusa if necessary. It also means I don't need a "quick 220" ever. I just need two 120v outlets on different circuits, but not necessary on different phases.

Of course, there's the DANGER DANGER DON'T DO THIS warning I should give. You could pull the 120v line out without the Brusa shutting down first, which is bad. You must unplug the J1772 first, which shuts down the Brusa, then unplug the Brusa's 120v cord.

Of course if you're charging on a non-GFI outlet, the Brusa can remain connected. Also, if you have access to a 30A portable EVSE and can only get "30 A service" aka TT-30 at an RV park, you could draw up to 24A on 120v which is faster than any other EV out there on 120v! :twisted:

I'm really liking the faster speed. This upgrade was totally worth it. Running full out, I went from half charge to nearly full over an hour and a half lunch break! :shock: The only problem now is that I'm limited with my EVSE upgrade when charging at 14-50's or dryer outlets. I might have to make an open EVSE... :roll:

 

[JasonA]

I don't see why you don't hook up the ground/neutral on your setup? I do not have this issue as I tried this on Sunday at my neighbor's house on his 120v-20a GFI outlet.

I had no issues using my upgraded brick. However I took out my OpenEVSE and now putting it into a small portable case for 70a power! :twisted:

The brick will stay at home in the garage for standard charging (20a) and the Siemens on the side of the house (70a)

 

[JasonA]

There is now a group purchase thread in the BUY section for the Brusa NLG513 is anyone is interested in doing this setup.

 

[metricmind]

Hi Jason,

Can you provide link to this BUY section? I (and may be others?) don't seem to be able to find where it is.

Thanks,

Victor

 

[JasonA]

Here's the link.. Sorry.. I was tired this morning when I typed it out..

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=14115

Are you interested in getting some also?? (lol- that was a joke) :lol:

 

[JeremyW]

After a few more days of living with the Brusa, I would recommend that most go with the water cooled unit. Mine hasn't completely shut down, but it does throttle at high temps. I'm not sure its worth it for me to get the water cooled unit now... I mean the air cooled works ok...

Suddenly, 240v stations mean a lot more to me. Also stations that have more than 30A available.
AQMD in Diamond Bar has 240v, everything else so far is 208 (since that's normal commercial). Makes quite a bit of difference. 32A*240V=7,680W :twisted:

And no I'm not going to go 'second J1772' route. In my travels I rarely have the option of using two at a time. Of course YMMV.

I've also hit 7TB twice just after finishing charging. This will heat your pack more than 16A L2. Not QC levels, but noticeable. I imagine in cooler weather it's probably less pronounced.

 

[JasonA]

Every single place except Metrolink (240v) stations are 208v usually. I've been keeping a DB of all stations I hit and pretty much everything is 208...

But there is 201 that sags to 199, etc.. SJC had 214v, etc. Everyplace will be abit different. Oceanside SUCKED!

But yes, we are cooking right now in SoCal (102* here) and you'd need to open the hood to cool the Brusa...

Hence my dual water cooling/ under the hood prototype. But that is going on someone else's...

I might stick to single up front, and duals in the back... haven't decided.. too many projects!

We're still working on a 2013 Rav4ev right now..

 

[metricmind]

Jason,

Here's the link.. Sorry.. I was tired this morning when I typed it out..
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=14115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are you interested in getting some also?? (lol- that was a joke) :lol:

Actually, not a joke; while I don't need any air cooled or water cooled chargers now, I did pay
for them to BRUSA just as any other customer would. AND I'd get a discount as well if I order
10 or 25 units, so yes, if you'd get 9 people to sign up and I need one (10th) unit,
I would benefit from the group buy just like any participant.

Of course I can always buy extra ones for my stock to reach price break point
with the manufacturer, but I don't have $10-15k laying around just for that occasion...

Thanks for the link!

 

[metricmind]

The NLG513 doesn't care if it's 240VAC or 220VAC or 208 VAC input - it will generate guaranteed
3.3kW output (actual - st least 3.35kW, some give a bit more) for as long as input is above ~170VAC.
Below that AC input the output power is reduced. So a 208VAC line sagging to 199VAC will have
no impact.

From what I read you guys have to worry about temperature impact more than input voltage.
At 0.85 efficiency one NLG513 generates 495 watts of heat. Imagine five 100W light bulbs
shining full blast under closed hood. That's for one NLG513. It will be
ten 100W light bulbs (nearly 1kW of losses) for two NLG513's. How do you all plan to
remove all that heat? Air cooled chargers in this app would be OK if they only would be
in open air. If you plan to get away with air cooled version, the only way to maintain
full power in warm climate (short of keep hood opened) is to perforate bottom cover
and use muffin fan or two to suck in fresh air from underbody and exhaust it through
a few holes in the opposite corner... The price difference between water cooled
and air cooled is just $158, so for this install I wouldn't think this saving it worth the
trouble and disappointment with the outcome of not being able to take full advantage
of 3.3kW at all [hot] times. Water cooled charger of course uses stock radiator and stock
fan kicks in whenever temp is above set point for Nichicon. And, BRUSA's are plumbed in
the same loop, very cleanly (if they're on the back). Personally, I've never heard radiator
in my Leaf fan running, but then I live in Portland OR, not SoCal...

Just my 2Wh..

 

[JeremyW]

I thought the stated efficiency is 93% or better? Is that only at lower power levels?

 

[JasonA]

That's interesting to know.. so it'll put out full power even on a sagging 208/201v line. Must be the Leaf's OBC then that cannot keep up or is derated.

Because when I was at down there for Tony's event, I could only push 14-15amps MAX. On 240 I push 17-18 constant no problem.

14a*390v=5460watts

18a*390v=7020watts :mrgreen:

sooo much difference...especially when sitting in a parking lot late at night waiting :shock: