Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

[gbarry42]

I'm not sure you'll find the term "modem" in a CANbus system, but I understand what you're saying. I just bought some transceivers to play with, and they do have an anti-jamming feature like that. So, it's at least possible to limit this kind of bad behavior. The problem to worry about, though, is some device with a microcontroller that thinks it knows what it's doing, and intermittently sends bad frames into the mix.

In this case, though, it sure seems like a badly connected cable. Those in the know, automatically ask, "what did I touch last?" Knowing where you poke to do a firmware update would probably lead you right to it. Baffling that they won't try--a fix like that often costs zero in parts.

 

[theaveng]

Unfortunately the arbitrator seemed to be overwhelmed with the tech stuff (and my wife told me she was afraid he was falling asleep during the testimony).

Like housing inspectors, the arbitrator is probably "best buds" with the company. Can't trust a housing inspector to be honest; nor an arbitrator.

 

[theaveng]

My question is, what happens if it doesn't start to taper off? What if it keeps putting in 3.8KW until the battery is full and even then keeps going? Battery damage? Worse?

There are lots of videos on youtube to show what happens to Lithium batteries when they are charged past 100% (they burn violently). Li-Ion batteries have been known to destroy cars and garages..... and those are the small portable kind for model cars/airplanes.

 

[theaveng]

duplicate

 

[theaveng]

i think some "hoped" they would be ok but how can you say Nissan did not warn us when they did say 20% or more in 5 years. granted getting 15% in less than a year is shocking

They said ten years. There's video of it, which I'm sure someone else can post. And yes 15% loss is shocking, because that means the battery can only lose 5% over the next nine years. It is unlikely to hold that level.

 

[theaveng]

And the point I was trying to make by going to the media wasn't that the Leaf is a bad car, but that Nissan was a bad company, that did almost nothing to try to resolve a problem with one of their products.

That is a pretty rude thing to say. Sure Nissan has some issues but a bad company? That is not cool.

First off companies are THINGS. They don't have feelings to be hurt. Second: Companies don't deserve any kind of patience or recourse, anymore than when a snake bites you, you don't hestitate to chop off its head. These companies hire child labor, or adults who are forced to work 14 hours a day in some company towns called "Foxconn" with no breaks but lunch and supper. In my observation there is not a single large corporation (megacorp) that is not guilty of some crime against basic human rights (including customer rights).

Yes that's right. Toyota, Honda, Microsoft, Apple..... all have a dark history. I don't blame the Leaf Owner with a lemon for hating on Nissan.

 

[theaveng]

I am trying. I've been in contact with a news station in San Diego and I'm trying to also get something lined up in Los Angeles. Hopefully we'll shoot something this week or early next and then they'll air when I get BBB's decision. The production guy had me take a bunch of photos before I get my cast off tomorrow...I think they're going to push the "look how Nissan treated this disabled guy," which is better than "another EV problem."

Be sure to blast Nissan then, will ya? I'm sure that will advance your cause and be of great aid to all the others with battery problems. Nothing gets action faster than local news media with delusions of "60 minutes" dancing in their heads. A little artful, selective editing and they can make anyone look bad, including you. Most likely, you'll end up with Nissan folding their arms and saying "ok, then, sue us". Good luck with that.

Dan reminds me of my Dad. Cold. Unsympathetic. Enjoys beating-down people who lost ~$30,000 on a Lemon car that doesn't work properly. And then makes jokes about it.

 

[saintyohann]

I'm getting no where fast with Nissan, it's been over 7 months I've been dealing with these issues. I'm going to go forward with the putting this out on the news. I've contacted a few TV stations in San Diego, can't seem to get a bite from anyone in LA, but did get a response from Texas.

It seems like the only way to get Nissan to care is to shame them and cost them money.

I've also considered get a wrap for the car and parking it in front the Mossy Nissan dealerships. Maybe if I start costing them money, they'll get corporate off their asses.

 

[saintyohann]

I received the decision from the BBB today, and it's official, my car is a super lemon.

Nissan will have to buy it back because they could not or would not try to fix it.

 

[mwalsh]

As they should have done from the get-go. Good for you.

You know, this ongoing attitude from Nissan really worries me, and holds up in very stark contrast to what GM has been doing (most of the time) with the Volt (and trust me that I'm no massive fan of GM). I think the consumer panel that Chelsea is heading up is going to turn out to be completely bogus too (despite any efforts she may make to the contrary). Come on, Nissan, get your head out of your arse!

 

[Stoaty]

I received the decision from the BBB today, and it's official, my car is a super lemon.

Nissan will have to buy it back because they could not or would not try to fix it.

Good to hear... but why did Nissan drag you and their reputation through the mud to get to this resolution??? What are they thinking? :twisted:

 

[saintyohann]

Good to hear... but why did Nissan drag you and their reputation through the mud to get to this resolution??? What are they thinking? :twisted:

I asked them months ago and they would not answer that...

 

[DaveEV]

I received the decision from the BBB today, and it's official, my car is a super lemon.

Nissan will have to buy it back because they could not or would not try to fix it.

Glad this if finally coming to a resolution for you.

As they should have done from the get-go. Good for you.

You know, this ongoing attitude from Nissan really worries me, and holds up in very stark contrast to what GM has been doing (most of the time) with the Volt (and trust me that I'm no massive fan of GM).

Yep, GM has pretty consistently shown that it will do the right thing in a shorter amount of time despite some really crappy dealers. In that case - GM gave toasty a brand new Volt. Nissan should be doing the same here (provided you still want one).

IMO: Take the money you get back from your LEAF and put it towards a Volt - and let Nissan and GM know why you're doing it.

 

[palmermd]

IMO: Take the money you get back from your LEAF and put it towards a Volt - and let Nissan and GM know why you're doing it.

or, if you still want to drive electric, I'd go with the Rav4ev.


I'm glad this has finally come to an end. This whole saga was really frustrating to watch. I can't imagine the stress of being a participant. Why Nissan put you through all this is incomprehensible.

 

[LEAFer]

IMO: Take the money you get back from your LEAF and put it towards a Volt - and let Nissan and GM know why you're doing it.

or, if you still want to drive electric, I'd go with the Rav4ev.


I'm glad this has finally come to an end. This whole saga was really frustrating to watch. I can't imagine the stress of being a participant. Why Nissan put you through all this is incomprehensible.

Or if you can't afford the Rav4EV, go with the (newly low-cost) lease deals on Ford Focus EV. ( I assume you can buy extra miles upfront, if you need them, beyond the 10,500 per year. )

 

[saintyohann]

I'm going to start looking soon. My short list looks like this:

Chevy Volt
Toyota Rav 4 EV
Ford Focus Electric
Tesla Model S
Ford C-Max Energi

 

[mwalsh]

I must admit that I'm kinda sad that you're not giving the LEAF another shot, though I can certainly understand why.

 

[palmermd]

I must admit that I'm kinda sad that you're not giving the LEAF another shot, though I can certainly understand why.

I'm happy with my Leaf, but I would not recommend it to anyone because of the way Nissan is handling issues like this one. This was a VERY clear case of a lemon, and they did everything they could to upset the customer.

If I were in the market for a new EV my list would look like saintyohann's, but not in that order.

 

[Stoaty]

I must admit that I'm kinda sad that you're not giving the LEAF another shot, though I can certainly understand why.

My sentiments exactly.

I'm happy with my Leaf, but I would not recommend it to anyone because of the way Nissan is handling issues like this one. This was a VERY clear case of a lemon, and they did everything they could to upset the customer.

My Leaf is working great for my needs, but I haven't been recommending one to anyone else:

Reason #1: range may not suit their needs.
Reason #2: rapid capacity loss in first year, worsening the range issue
Reason #3: cases like this where Nissan's baffling behavior doesn't instill a lot of confidence that the owner will be taken car of if they have a serious issue

 

[mwalsh]

I'm happy with my Leaf, but I would not recommend it to anyone because of the way Nissan is handling issues like this one.

Likewise. Got to see some level of openness over the AZ issue too, before I'll feel comfortable recommending it again.