ECOtality News 8/12/13 - DOE Stops payments

[jhm614]

What does this mean for the blink public chargers? Are they going to still be available? If not, yikes! They are the only public chargers I've ever actually used. (Well, except for one GE Wattstation in the bowels of the UTA parking garage....)

 

[jhm614]

An Important Message

August 12, 2013: We wanted you to know that the needs of our drivers are paramount to us and despite the challenges we currently face, we will continue to operate the Blink Network and maintain our Blink chargers until further notice. We urge you to visit a Blink charger today and show that you support the growth of a public charging infrastructure.

Per their website : http://www.ecotality.com/an-important-message-aug-12/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GRA]

So how has ChargePoint managed to succeed, at least so far? I think they are VC funded.

We had both ChargePoint and Ecotality come in to our company to present a plan for installing charging stations. One brought in two well-spoken marketing folks, had a slick presentation including a hardware demonstation, and the advantage of many of us having experienced the reliability of their public stations. And lots of options for how to bill users. The other had one guy who seemed unprepared and almost resigned to losing the bid, and the disadvantage of many of us having experienced the reliability *their* public stations. The pricing was basically the same. I'll leave it to you to figure out which was which.

Chargepoint was also involved in a government-funded infrastructure project, the name of which escapes me (it wasn't the EV Project). The management and the equipment have performed far better than ECOtality's.

[Edit] Here we go: http://www.chargepoint.com/pr/news-press-releases-2013-0611.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GRA]

Articles from

GCR: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086194_ecotality-trading-suspended-electric-car-charging-network-to-release-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

insideevs.com: http://insideevs.com/ecotality-heading-for-bankruptcy-as-doe-shuts-off-the-tap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plugincars.com: http://www.plugincars.com/ecotality-warns-financial-troubles-hires-restructuring-advisor-127968.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[davewill]

The deal that ChargePoint presents to hosts can be considered onerous if a host is looking to recoup costs. We saw a city municipality agreement that was posted awhile back and discussed on the forum. Something like 50 cents per transaction and 7 or 7.5% of the total revenue collected goes to ChargePoint...So the host really cannot recover all of their equipment, installation and operational costs on a deal like that. Plus, ChargePoint hardware is anything but cheap...

Of course if the Blink deal is so generous they can't keep their doors open...

 

[Randy]

The deal that ChargePoint presents to hosts can be considered onerous if a host is looking to recoup costs. We saw a city municipality agreement that was posted awhile back and discussed on the forum. Something like 50 cents per transaction and 7 or 7.5% of the total revenue collected goes to ChargePoint...So the host really cannot recover all of their equipment, installation and operational costs on a deal like that. Plus, ChargePoint hardware is anything but cheap...

Of course if the Blink deal is so generous they can't keep their doors open...

Ya, catch-22, isn't it? Charge too little and go broke. Charge a little more to float the business and there aren't that many takers (at least around here with the ECOtality money in play)...

No such thing as a free lunch afterall...

Maybe ChargePoint or someone similar can just buy all the ECTY assets (the installed charger locations are the most valuable part of that) and move forward....

 

[evnow]

Here is some perspective from Chad S.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20098-Uh-Oh-Ecotality-Exploring-Restructuring-or-Sale-Cites-List-of-Challenges/page2?p=410708&viewfull=1#post410708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their two primary mistakes were made long ago:
1. bidding too low on TheEVProject. They assumed site hosts would be happy to chip in $10-$15k to get a DC charger, which would vastly lower Ecotality's costs. They were way too optimistic on that point; and that really has stuck them in a very hard place - they can't find site hosts willing to pay, but can't afford to do installs without them. And they don't get the DOE money unless they are making installs. (DOE gets some of the blame for that, by not specifying oversight or penalties for failure to deliver in the contract. At least the DOE did tie payouts to installs; that helped a lot)
2. assuming they could quickly build their own hardware cheaper than they could buy known hardware elsewhere. They had originally applied using Chargepoint equipment. They built their own equipment cheaper...but after costs to fix software and hardware issues, it ended up being more expensive. (Again, the DOE could have specified that they use the hardware they applied with).

 

[GRA]

Here is some perspective from Chad S.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20098-Uh-Oh-Ecotality-Exploring-Restructuring-or-Sale-Cites-List-of-Challenges/page2?p=410708&viewfull=1#post410708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their two primary mistakes were made long ago:
1. bidding too low on TheEVProject. They assumed site hosts would be happy to chip in $10-$15k to get a DC charger, which would vastly lower Ecotality's costs. They were way too optimistic on that point; and that really has stuck them in a very hard place - they can't find site hosts willing to pay, but can't afford to do installs without them. And they don't get the DOE money unless they are making installs. (DOE gets some of the blame for that, by not specifying oversight or penalties for failure to deliver in the contract. At least the DOE did tie payouts to installs; that helped a lot)
2. assuming they could quickly build their own hardware cheaper than they could buy known hardware elsewhere. They had originally applied using Chargepoint equipment. They built their own equipment cheaper...but after costs to fix software and hardware issues, it ended up being more expensive. (Again, the DOE could have specified that they use the hardware they applied with).

Re the highlighted sentence: Ain't that the truth! It's amazing that the government contract was so loosely written. Of course, this is pretty much the way every aerospace company makes a profit on government contracts - lowball the estimate and make it back on ECPs. But ECOtality didn't have that kind of contract, and this is hardly bleeding-edge tech. It doesn't take a genius to say "build using the same equipment you bid, or prove to us the change is superior."

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here is some perspective from Chad S.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20098-Uh-Oh-Ecotality-Exploring-Restructuring-or-Sale-Cites-List-of-Challenges/page2?p=410708&viewfull=1#post410708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their two primary mistakes were made long ago:
1. bidding too low on TheEVProject. They assumed site hosts would be happy to chip in $10-$15k to get a DC charger, which would vastly lower Ecotality's costs. They were way too optimistic on that point; and that really has stuck them in a very hard place - they can't find site hosts willing to pay, but can't afford to do installs without them. And they don't get the DOE money unless they are making installs.

They got all the money that DOE contracted for, over $100 million. That's all they really wanted, and they got it ALL, and then went BK.

 

[oakwcj]

The Blink website is down or gone.

 

[TomT]

It appears to be just a temporary internet hiccup...

The Blink website is down or gone.

 

[JimSouCal]

They got all the money that DOE contracted for, over $100 million. That's all they really wanted, and they got it ALL, and then went BK.

From my simple and rather ignorant perspective, from the user interface on their website to my experience of out of order chargers, execution seemed incompetent and inefficient.

On the other hand, there were instances of caring and professional employees who seemed thwarted by systematic failure...

In my heart, I hope this is (was) a case of innocent incompetence by decision makers, rather than yet another instance of IBGUBG (when the dust settles, I'll be gone, you'll be gone, what does it matter?).

 

[KeiJidosha]

Here is some perspective from Chad S.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20098-Uh-Oh-Ecotality-Exploring-Restructuring-or-Sale-Cites-List-of-Challenges/page2?p=410708&viewfull=1#post410708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their two primary mistakes were made long ago:
1. bidding too low on TheEVProject. They assumed site hosts would be happy to chip in $10-$15k to get a DC charger, which would vastly lower Ecotality's costs. They were way too optimistic on that point; and that really has stuck them in a very hard place - they can't find site hosts willing to pay, but can't afford to do installs without them. And they don't get the DOE money unless they are making installs.

They got all the money that DOE contracted for, over $100 million. That's all they really wanted, and they got it ALL, and then went BK.

Yes. The sad truth - Transportation Electrification: Electric vehicle infrastructure deployment, demonstration and evaluation. Electric Transportation Engineering Corporation (eTec, now doing business as ECOtality North America) Grants - AWARD SUMMARY

 

[evnow]

Funds Invoiced/Received $95,949,526

Not sure how much has actually been disbursed.

Still, not sure how they have billed for $95M after doing only a part of the work.

 

[GRA]

Here's the same info for Chargepoint (Charge America):

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/RecoveryData/Pages/RecipientProjectSummary508.aspx?AwardIDSUR=103480&qtr=2013Q2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I note that Chargepoint finished the deployment, and seems to have come in almost $300k under the $15m budget ($14,701,700 vice $15,001,287).

 

[z0ner]

Near the footer of their front page:

An Important Message

We wanted you to know that the needs of our drivers are paramount to us and despite the challenges we currently face, we will continue to operate the Blink Network and maintain our Blink chargers until further notice. We urge you to visit a Blink charger today and show that you support the growth of a public charging infrastructure.

ECTY.O $0.31 @ close. Down from $1.46.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

Funds Invoiced/Received $95,949,526

So roughly $24k for each charging station listed on their website.

Are there any stats on how many "free" residential stations they installed, or how many of their public stations were installed before the grant?

 

[DaveEV]

Are there any stats on how many "free" residential stations they installed, or how many of their public stations were installed before the grant?

Ecotality has lots of good documentation as part of the EV Project:

http://www.theevproject.com/documents.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I doubt that any stations were installed before the grant. Blink stations weren't available until early 2011. Before that, there were no real EVs capable of J1772 available for purchase (yes I know the first Volts/LEAFs were delivered in late 2010 but the only EVSE available then was either Clipper Creek or AV).

 

[evnow]

Ecotality was first installing a competitor EVSE before Blink became available, they were later swapped out.

 

[Nubo]

This is what I've feared the most. That they would fail to create a going concern, a profit making company, and that we'd end up with an abandoned network that's good for nobody. We can only hope that some other entity is able to take over the network and keep it operating (and repair the overheating problems).

They already partnered with Chargepoint for billing, iirc. Chargepoint has their act together so I'd root for that. And since they have precious few L3 of their own, might be a decent fit.