How can we Encourage ICE drivers to adopt EVs?

[TomT]

Really? Where? The majority of people I have had contact with or on the board here are L2. L1 charging only would make the car completely impracticable for me as charging is not an option for me at work.

Plus, to play devil's advocate for a moment, a good portion of the cars in the Leaf's msrp price range come with anywhere from 2 to 4 years of free maintenance so that skews the cost estimate considerably.

Most of the people I have talked to about the LEAF do not plan to install L2 charger, just use the L1 that came with the vehicle.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Really? Where? The majority of people I have had contact with or on the board here are L2. L1 charging only would make the car completely impracticable for me.

Plus, to play devil's advocate for a moment, a good portion of the cars in the Leaf's msrp price range come with anywhere from 2 to 4 years of free maintenance so that skews the cost estimate considerably.

Most of the people I have talked to about the LEAF do not plan to install L2 charger, just use the L1 that came with the vehicle.

If you only drive 20-30 miles a day, you can get by with L1 charging. But you lose the convenience of L2, and sooner or later, you will wish that you had it.

 

[mgoleta]

Location is everything. In our area almost everyone I talk to about EVs have commutes <20mi a day (which is the same for about 50% of the US). My rountrip work commute is only 9mi. About 29% of US is less the 10mi round trip. At the EV workshop last Feb. in our area one of the common complaints was all the hype about having to have an L2 charger. This is not to say that a lot of people need L2. I can certainly see that if you are in the SF, LA, OC and SD (or is it LAOCSD) areas. By the way most of the people I have talked to don't participate on this forum. Locally I appear to be the only one. LindaK appears to be one of the few just north of here.

According to SCE they consider this area to be the #4 market for EVs out of their 180 service areas.

I think one of the ways to convince people about EVs is to appeal to those people were an EV would fit their lifestyle with little or no compromise. Trying to make the major appeal to those 20% that have >40mi round trip commutes reduces the target market significantly. Many of our local employers do not have a problem with their employees charging at work. We have 4 outlet groups in our parking area at work that would support both L1 and the EVR-GREEN 160 L2 chargers and we only have 10 people. Now if only we could get car deliveries from Nissan or Chevy.

 

[DarkStar]

Really? Where? The majority of people I have had contact with or on the board here are L2. L1 charging only would make the car completely impracticable for me.

Plus, to play devil's advocate for a moment, a good portion of the cars in the Leaf's msrp price range come with anywhere from 2 to 4 years of free maintenance so that skews the cost estimate considerably.

Most of the people I have talked to about the LEAF do not plan to install L2 charger, just use the L1 that came with the vehicle.

If you only drive 20-30 miles a day, you can get by with L1 charging. But you lose the convenience of L2, and sooner or later, you will wish that you had it.

50 miles a day can easily be handled by Level 1 charging only. 5 hours plugged in at work and 5 hours plugged in at home. Personally I'm at work for 9 hours a day and then I'm at home for at least 8. With Level 1 charging, that's over 85 miles of charging.

 

[Herm]

So you are saying that most people dont need a 6.6kw charger either?.. That cant be!

 

[EdmondLeaf]

So you are saying that most people dont need a 6.6kw charger either?.. That cant be!

We all will try to accommodate Leaf best way we can, no one question faster charging will be more beneficial for all of us. If you can plug so many hour a day, than L1 maybe a enough, 20 h a day will keep Leaf at 80%. 8h at work will add 24 - 30 miles so even many people should be happy with that and that also should be selling point in educating others. For me L2 necessary for work and home 35 highway miles each way so it will be difficult to manage with L1 only but still possible

 

[ERG4ALL]

The major appeal to me of the 6.6kW charger is when we can hook up to chargers at Malls and restaurants. I've stopped by three places in Phoenix that are supposed to have chargers and two out of the three are not set up yet to accommodate the J1772. The third required signing up with your credit card to get a RFID pass key. I have high hopes that by the end of the year the situation may improve. Fortunately people who may follow our lead into EVs will probably have to wait until the end of the year to get an EV anyway.

 

[DarkStar]

The third required signing up with your credit card to get a RFID pass key

If it was a Chargepoint, give them a call and they'll probably be willing to send you a free card.

 

[AndyH]

So you are saying that most people dont need a 6.6kw charger either?.. That cant be!

Not sure if this is sarcastic so I'll reply as if it isn't.

It can be, actually. One thing I've noticed about myself and others is the difference between a perceived need and 'reality', and the way that the view of reality can be justified along piece by piece.

Most people only need a Honda Fit - but after accounting for the couple of times a year that they'd need a bit more room, and the couple of times a year they need to carry a couple of bags of mulch, and justifying that they've suffered enough with cheap cars and deserve something nice for a change, and I might want to move next year -- so they end up buying a 4-door 4WD pickup with a long bed, leather everything, the Bose sound system and 15 TV screens. People are funny that way.

I'm squarely in the L1 camp, but will have Ingineer upgrade the L1 EVSE just in case.

 

[TomT]

Since my car arrived considerably earlier than expected, I had to spend the better part of my first week with it using L1 only until Blink could install my L2.
That convinced me how compromised the car would be, FOR ME, if I had to depend on L1 only.

I'm squarely in the L1 camp, but will have Ingineer upgrade the L1 EVSE just in case.

 

[AndyH]

That convinced me how compromised the car would be, FOR ME, if I had to depend on L1 only.

Makes sense - I'm glad you know what you need.

What does 'compromised' mean for you?

 

[TomT]

In my business I have widely varying hours. Thus, it is possible I might come home at 11pm one night and have to be back at work at 6am the next. Without L2 charging I would not have the time to charge the car to a point where it would have the range I need. Where I commute varies but on average I have a 54 mile round trip with about a significant climb to my house on the return (from near sea level to 1,400 feet). I usually arrive home with 4 bars assuming no side trips.

That convinced me how compromised the car would be, FOR ME, if I had to depend on L1 only.

Makes sense - I'm glad you know what you need.

What does 'compromised' mean for you?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

L one charging is a huge compromise. I have used it exclusively and could not do two consecutive days of heavy driving. Saturday is our heaviest driving day and we have hit turtle once second low batt warning about four times.

I plug in when I get home and frequently have barely half a charge the next morning when I go to work.

Since I only need 20 miles I am ok with it but would be nice to have the opportunity to fully charge overnigh no matter what

 

[aqn]

If you only drive 20-30 miles a day, you can get by with L1 charging. But you lose the convenience of L2, and sooner or later, you will wish that you had it.

Blue SL Leaf delivered 1/7/2011
EVP participant. EVSE: Clipper Creek

I drive less than 10 miles a day, maybe30-40 miles/day on weekends. (Austin is still a small town.) I'm not getting an EVSE. I'd like to know how you arrive at the prediction of "sooner or later, you will wish that you had it". Do you drive "only" 20-30 miles a day and had lived without an EVSE for an extended period of time (since Jan 7, anyway)?

I mostly don't want an EVSE because a. I don't drive that much, and b. EVSE installation is such a farking racket, charging a high price for hardly any work simply because the buyer gets tax credit on the cost.

 

[aqn]

Most EV owners are installing the EVSE at up to $2000.
OThat's much higher than all the maintenence items combined.

Now you're pointing and laughing at The Emperor.

Stick to your ICE car it sounds like a bargain.

A bit touchy, aren't we?

I have been meaning to write about this list of reasons to drive an EV. Many of the reasons are great and should definitely be emphasized:

• "EVs Do Not Pollute Urban Areas." EVs pollute a lot less, period: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11&p=50357#p50357
• "EVs Reduce the Trade Balance of Payments." Especially reducing our dependence on being supplied oil by people who hate us.
• "Cheaper Fuel Costs." This is very true, when compared against the "average U.S. passenger vehicle" that gets 20.5 mpg (http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_12.html). It's a tougher argument to make against a $24K Honda Civic hybrid that gets 40 mpg (http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2011/?sub=hybrid).
• "EVs Qualify for the HOV Lanes." Also very true.
• "Lithium-ion Batteries Are Recyclable. Gasoline is not recyclable." I can't agree more.

The problem with these reasons is that they appeal to environmentally conscious and/or politically aware types, but few are "what's in it for me" reasons ("cheaper fuel cost" and "qualify for HOV lane") that would appeal to the "average American".

Also, some of the reasons are a little... thin:

• "Larger Selection Than in the Past." That's like saying "There is a larger selection of vegan restaurants today than in the past." True, but not exactly a point I want to mention to an EV skeptic.
• "Charging Times Have Improved." So now I need to spend eight hours filling up instead of a whole day, versus maybe twenty minutes for an ICE vehicle? Again not exactly a point I want to mention to an EV skeptic. On the (slightly) plus side, it only takes a few seconds to plug in, versus twenty minutes to stop at a gas station and fill up.
• "Availability of Chargers is Increasing." See "larger selection", above.
• "EV Range Is Acceptable for Urban Driving." This is true, especially considering the average commute is 16 miles (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Traffic/story?id=485098&page=1). But again, a full-to-empty range of 80-100 miles is still quite laughable, and not exactly a point I want to mention to an EV skeptic.
• "Easier, Less Messy Fill-ups." This is stretching it a bit. It's not like putting gas in an ICE vehicle is a hard, dirty job.
• "Fuel Savings and Tax Benefits Have Lowered the Price of EVs." And what if there are no tax benefits? Bringing up an EV's qualifying for a tax credit points out its "special" status, highlighting the fact that its adoption rate would probably be a lot lower without bribes.
• "EVs Are Safe." Are you kidding me?! That's like saying "EVs have four wheels! Oooh! Aahhh!" Sorry, but "safe" is not a differentiator, as well as is unproven. In fact, I would consider the skinny low rolling resistance tires one area of "un-safety": less traction == less safe.
  Furthermore, it wasn't too long ago that I had to suffer a cab driver putting down hybrids because of the danger of electric shock from the high-voltage pack in case of an accident. And there is still a bit of debate about EVs' level of EMF.

 

[Train]

Now you're pointing and laughing at The Emperor.

:?:

 

[garygid]

Show people your "charge anywhere" kit.

A compact, plug-in, 120v/240v "charging cord" (EVSE) with whatever socket adapters you have.

This could be the Nissan-included L1 EVSE ... with the 240v mod, and adapters. Only costs an extra $198 (the mod) + $25 (the 120v adapter) + tax & shipping, and possibly 1 to 5 adapter-pigtalis (+$20 each, for making your own adapters).

Perhaps $450 total, including around $100 for a few extra plugs to fit various RV, dryer, etc. sockets.

Also, we still hope the SPX compact, plug-in, all-voltage EVSE will become available.

 

[TRONZ]

With the total number of EV's available over the next 2-3 years being relatively low, I am being a little selective about who I recommend them to. The LEAF is already so good and with gas prices rising I kinda don't want the wrong sorts getting ahold of them.

 

[Jimmydreams]

If you only drive 20-30 miles a day, you can get by with L1 charging. But you lose the convenience of L2, and sooner or later, you will wish that you had it.

Blue SL Leaf delivered 1/7/2011
EVP participant. EVSE: Clipper Creek

I drive less than 10 miles a day, maybe30-40 miles/day on weekends. (Austin is still a small town.) I'm not getting an EVSE. I'd like to know how you arrive at the prediction of "sooner or later, you will wish that you had it". Do you drive "only" 20-30 miles a day and had lived without an EVSE for an extended period of time (since Jan 7, anyway)?

I mostly don't want an EVSE because a. I don't drive that much, and b. EVSE installation is such a farking racket, charging a high price for hardly any work simply because the buyer gets tax credit on the cost.

No, I don't only drive 20-30 miles a day, but even with my L2 EVSE, there have been one or two occasions already where I was able to squeak by and BARELY continue to use my Leaf rather than jump in my ICE. Life throws you curveballs. Have you ever wished your computer had more memory or a larger harddrive? Perhaps wished your gastank was bigger? If not, then count yourself lucky. I've rarely seen a situation where additional capacity was NEVER needed, no matter what we're talking about.

But I do have one question: are you driving your Leaf yet?

 

[aqn]

No, I don't only drive 20-30 miles a day, but even with my L2 EVSE, there have been one or two occasions already where I was able to squeak by and BARELY continue to use my Leaf rather than jump in my ICE. Life throws you curveballs.

I'm good at hitting curveballs.

Have you ever wished your computer had more memory or a larger harddrive? Perhaps wished your gastank was bigger?

Er... no. But I have wished for a faster harddrive.

People have different priorities, and place different values on the same things.

But I do have one question: are you driving your Leaf yet?

It's current "week of April 21", which is why I want to know more about your driving situation, not to change my mind and get an EVSE, but to know whether I should be cringing at the prospect of being EVSE-less. From what I can gather, L1 charging is more than sufficient for me.