Leaf Warranty

[palmermd]

That makes no sense. All it is saying is that if you end up with 80% range they're not going to replace you battery. But if your range drops to 20% in 3 years then that is NO gradual and it would be covered under warranty.

I think people are getting all worked up about nothing.

Where does it say that they will cover the pack if you lose 80% in 3 years. Nowhere do they define "normal capacity loss". They only cover defects in the pack, not capacity loss according to the documentation.

 

[Kataphn]

Hmmm, any idea where that in cabin micro filter spot would be? Just curious.

 

[cdub]

That makes no sense. All it is saying is that if you end up with 80% range they're not going to replace you battery. But if your range drops to 20% in 3 years then that is NO gradual and it would be covered under warranty.

I think people are getting all worked up about nothing.

Where does it say that they will cover the pack if you lose 80% in 3 years. Nowhere do they define "normal capacity loss". They only cover defects in the pack, not capacity loss according to the documentation.

It says to expect gradual capacity loss. So therefore anything that is NOT GRADUAL would be covered.

 

[Frank]

That makes no sense. All it is saying is that if you end up with 80% range they're not going to replace you battery. But if your range drops to 20% in 3 years then that is NO gradual and it would be covered under warranty.

I think people are getting all worked up about nothing.

Where does it say that they will cover the pack if you lose 80% in 3 years. Nowhere do they define "normal capacity loss". They only cover defects in the pack, not capacity loss according to the documentation.

Yes, you are correct about that. It's too bad Nissan didn't define any parameters related to "normal" battery capacity loss in the warranty. Some of us may have been willing to take on a greater amount of risk with a new Leaf than we would ever consider with a new ICE vehicle. But as the warranty is written, ALL capacity loss issues are the responsibility of the buyer, unless it is being caused by a defect in one or more of the battery cells. That's a lot of risk to take on, even if it is for a good cause.

 

[palmermd]

That makes no sense. All it is saying is that if you end up with 80% range they're not going to replace you battery. But if your range drops to 20% in 3 years then that is NO gradual and it would be covered under warranty.

I think people are getting all worked up about nothing.

Where does it say that they will cover the pack if you lose 80% in 3 years. Nowhere do they define "normal capacity loss". They only cover defects in the pack, not capacity loss according to the documentation.

It says to expect gradual capacity loss. So therefore anything that is NOT GRADUAL would be covered.

Have fun arguing with the service department on that one.

The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty.

Seems to me they are just saying in the warranty that lithium batteries will loose capacity and this is not covered. The only thing causing a little grey area is the word gradual, but since that is not defined, its up to interpretation. They just need to define gradual by putting in a normal capacity loss curve and then saying that if you lose 10% more than normal we will get you back up to normal.

 

[cdub]

Yes, you are correct about that. It's too bad Nissan didn't define any parameters related to "normal" battery capacity loss in the warranty. Some of us may have been willing to take on a greater amount of risk with a new Leaf than we would ever consider with a new ICE vehicle. But as the warranty is written, ALL capacity loss issues are the responsibility of the buyer, unless it is being caused by a defect in one or more of the battery cells. That's a lot of risk to take on, even if it is for a good cause.

But this makes sense. They are basically saying as long as you don't ABUSE the battery your battery loss will be the normal 70 to 80% over x amount of years. Lion batteries lose capacity. This is a fact. It is up to you to take care of the battery. This is normal.

If we abused our ICE cars then that wouldn't be covered under warranty either. This is completely normal.

Again I think there is a lot of people freaking out over nothing here.

 

[garygid]

To me, it says to expect gradual capacity loss, and that
there is no coverage for capacity loss of any kind.

Not acceptable for me.

Manufacturing defects are not defined, but covered, it seems.

Does the "Security+Plus Vehicle Protection Plan" have
extra-cost options for a battery-capacity warranty?

 

[DaveEV]

Not acceptable for me.

I think you owe EVDRIVER a pizza.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Not acceptable for me.

I think you owe EVDRIVER a pizza.

Don't worry, Even if it had a 90% capacity warranty after 8 years I still think he will cancel. Besides, I know Gary is afraid of being shocked form the EVSE so it's a done deal I also must disclose I have never lost an EV based pizza bet

 

[cdub]

EV based Pizza bet?

Any chance the owners manual will be uploaded soon?

 

[EVDRIVER]

EV based Pizza bet?

Any chance the owners manual will be uploaded soon?

Pizza bets on EV topics

 

[Jimmydreams]

"To keep the Li-ion battery in good condition, charge the battery once every 3 months using the long life mode charging method."

I never found a "long life charging method".....did I miss something?

 

[DaveEV]

I never found a "long life charging method".....did I miss something?

Don't think so, I didn't see it defined, either. I suspect it's defined in the owner's manual.

 

[LEAFfan]

To me, it says to expect gradual capacity loss, and that
there is no coverage for capacity loss of any kind.

Not acceptable for me.

That isn't what it actually says though. Cdub is right. Gradual capacity loss is the key. Anything more than gradual (ie. more than 80% in five years or more than 70% after eight) is covered. So it sounds like a fairly good warranty to me.

 

[LEAFfan]

http://home.earthlink.net/~michael_walsh/images/11MY%20LEAF%20NAM%20PQRG_AsPrinted_110510.pdf

http://home.earthlink.net/~michael_walsh/images/773306-2011-Nissan-Leaf-Warranty.pdf

http://home.earthlink.net/~michael_walsh/images/773326-2011-Nissan-Leaf-SMG.PDF

I just saw the posts about the pdfs. Thanks Ray and Mike!

 

[Frank]

With respect to battery pack capacity loss, is the loss associated more with time (i.e. number of months), or the number of charge cycles?

The statistic that has been discussed is that expected capacity loss should not be more than 20 percent over a 60 month period. This is purely associated with time, and not the number of charge cycles. How much does the number of charge cycles play a role in getting to the 20 percent capacity loss state? For example, if Leaf Owner A charges his pack 15 full charges per month, and Leaf Owner B charges his pack 25 full cycles per month, will both Owner A and B get to the 20 percent capacity loss state at the same time? Of course other factors are held constant for the two owners such as the rate of charge (L1, L2, L3), temperature conditions, etc.

This may have already been discussed, but I wasn't able to find it.

 

[Lopton]

Thank you for the post of these! And thank you in advance for the owners manual later :lol:

-Matt

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

The balance of Lease vs Buy just took a strong tilt to the Lease.

There is no way I want to be arguing with a Nissan tech, in a service bay, about what does or does not constitute "gradual" loss. Or what kind of charging regimen was less-than-ideal, or any of the other reasons my Lithium Ion isn't making it to Mile #70. No thanks. Not on Rev 1.0.

Nissan makes the battery, charger, the inverter, and every goes-in/goes-out of the battery. They need to warranty it for a specific capacity, without ambiguity. If there are mandatory charging practices, they should be enforced in software.

The good news is that any battery behavior or reduced range exhibited after three years will be "normal", and not grounds for extra Lease charges.

 

[evnow]

I believe Nissan would have
- Leased the battery and let you buy the car but for tax credit issues
- Only leased the car except for the EV1 and other foulups

 

[EVDRIVER]

The balance of Lease vs Buy just took a strong tilt to the Lease.

There is no way I want to be arguing with a Nissan tech, in a service bay, about what does or does not constitute "gradual" loss. Or what kind of charging regimen was less-than-ideal, or any of the other reasons my Lithium Ion isn't making it to Mile #70. No thanks. Not on Rev 1.0.

Nissan makes the battery, charger, the inverter, and every goes-in/goes-out of the battery. They need to warranty it for a specific capacity, without ambiguity. If there are mandatory charging practices, they should be enforced in software.

The good news is that any battery behavior or reduced range exhibited after three years will be "normal", and not grounds for extra Lease charges.

Brake pads wear out gradually. I had one pair on a car wear out gradually over 70K miles and the ones ones in my truck in 12K miles. Using words like gradual only describe what should happen and are in NO way binding terms for a warranty. From what I have seen, if a module fails from manufacturing defects and not abuse it will be covered, besides that you are legally on your own for capacity as there are no specifics. Even warranties with specifics on batteries are tough to deal with at times. believing there is something implied there is simply wishful thinking.

I am 100% confident that packs that lose capacity of say 40% in the first year will be replaced no questions asked to keep the PR good and the company in business. The question is when they will draw the line and what people can expect. If you expect the pack to be covered for 80% after three years you may be disappointed because it is probable that can happen and that they will not cover this. The warranty is clear, basic and simplistic.

If I find out the pack is actually closer to 30kwh it will really boost my confidence.