Newbie - 2018 Nissan Leaf lessee

[NoReleaf]

So figure you can go about 10% further from the same metered amount if using L2

Very interesting, thanks. "Metered amount" as in metered by the reporting charger, when such a charger is present, correct? It occurs to me that I need to know whether loss is either a) "You wanted 1.44 kWh per hour but I could only pick up and deliver 1.1 kWh per hour" or b) "You wanted 1.44 kWh per hour but some got lost somewhere - maybe I ate it - so here's your 1.1 kWh/hour for the cost of 1.44 kWh/hour."

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Yeah, not all the electricity coming out of the "wall" makes it into the battery. Some of that is used to run pumps and other overhead. Some is is "lost" as useless waste heat (e.g. in the on-board charger, given off as heat by the battery, etc.) After you've charged for at least an hour, you'll notice that the whole PDM stack under the hood is probably warm.

 

[NoReleaf]

^^^

Ouch. This electricity thing is a scam! I'm having the Leaf retrofitted with an internal combustion engine tomorrow.

Seriously, I am not surprised, but I wanted to be clear. So there really is going to be a discrepancy between charging cost and apparent overall fuel cost. So the actual fuel cost for my 2018 Leaf where it is operated, based on information to date, would appear to be between $4.68 and $4.95 per 100 miles. Ha. That is a 47 MPG car based on the latest local gasoline prices. I've never played up the lower fuel cost thing when discussing the Leaf - well, almost never - but now I think I should probably avoid the subject altogether.

Actually, I would still like the Leaf if there was no free charging and electricity cost the same as gas. Hell, I'd still like it if it was an ICE.

 

[NoReleaf]

There is no way to just plug a 240 volt EVSE into that 20 amp 120 volt outlet.

I didn't take the suggestion from SageBrush to mean that there would not be wiring and circuit breaker panel work to do, only that the outlet location needn't change. Did I misunderstand? The location of the current charging outlet couldn't be better (here, anyway), and all the other suggestions seemed to at least imply putting in something else somewhere else. I definitely didn't think you could just literally "change the socket" and magically have working 240V.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is no need to relocate the charging station. In fact it's less work to use an existing location and "pull new cable" through the wall to it than to make a new hole. In the case of surface mount wiring it's pretty much a wash.

 

[SageBrush]

So figure you can go about 10% further from the same metered amount if using L2

Very interesting, thanks. "Metered amount" as in metered by the reporting charger, when such a charger is present, correct? It occurs to me that I need to know whether loss is either a) "You wanted 1.44 kWh per hour but I could only pick up and deliver 1.1 kWh per hour" or b) "You wanted 1.44 kWh per hour but some got lost somewhere - maybe I ate it - so here's your 1.1 kWh/hour for the cost of 1.44 kWh/hour."

The electric company meter.
The losses are downstream from the meter, so you pay for them. As Cwerdna said, the losses are a mixture of power to run the EVSE and on-board charger (OBC) electronics and cooling, and waste heat as energy flows through the cable.

If 1.44 kW is being pulled from your utility via an L1 EVSE and ~ 18% is losses then the battery collects 1.44*0.82 kWh an hour
If 1.44 kW is being pulled from your utility via an L2 EVSE and ~ 10% is losses then the battery collects 1.44*0.9 kWh an hour

 

[SageBrush]

There is no way to just plug a 240 volt EVSE into that 20 amp 120 volt outlet.

I didn't take the suggestion from SageBrush to mean that there would not be wiring and circuit breaker panel work to do, only that the outlet location needn't change. Did I misunderstand?

You understood exactly.

You have two good choices here and one mentioned for completeness sake

1. Replace the old wiring with upgraded (for higher Amp rating) and then connect on one side to your breaker panel and the other side to a new socket.

2. Run new wire from your breaker panel to a new location and connect to a new socket.

3. Use the existing wiring (if there are three) and just replace the socket and breaker. This has the disadvantage of your car charging being limited by the wiring, not knowing the condition of the wiring, and it being your responsibility to configure either your car or the EVSE to not pull more Amps than the wiring can handle. Not recommended, and you have to place a socket that matches the wiring rating that may be non-standard

I think it is pretty much going to be always true that the closer the socket to the breaker panel, the cheaper the project. Parts tend to be cheap but electrician labor is not. While not technical, I'll mention my opinion about electrical work: if you spare the wire, you invite fire.

 

[NoReleaf]

The actual destinations are in the Grand Rapids area (all the way out to Grand Haven). I would want to allow for at least 213 miles to get to a final destination where I am certain of being able to charge. My current expectations are that depending on conditions I might use 1% of charge for every 1.0 to 1.3 miles. I drove a trip-like 104 miles today and used 91% in moderate winter conditions, so let's call it 1.1 miles.

This is just one part of what is going to be an interesting puzzle. For now, for starters, I know that I could potentially drive the Leaf 153 miles to the east, northeast, or southeast before I was SOL. I intend to map out the full extent of how far I can go from home in every direction. Perhaps it will expand a bit over the next few years.