Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

[evnow]

Not sure why people are stuck on the degradation issue. Just lease the vehicle. Besides, if it has a 48 kWh battery, degradation will be much less of a practical problem.

Getting back on topic, I don't think we can read much into what they did with one vehicle for one race. It may or may not reflect anything the executives have in mind for production in the future.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

If Nissan offered a 36kwh hour option for $7500 they'd sell like three cars without it. That's OK, that's why you see manual transmissions offered in cars like the Camry, nobody ever buys them, but each dealer gets on so the can put a lowball price in the newspaper ads.

 

[adric22]

If Nissan offered a 36kwh hour option for $7500 they'd sell like three cars without it. That's OK, that's why you see manual transmissions offered in cars like the Camry, nobody ever buys them, but each dealer gets on so the can put a lowball price in the newspaper ads.

And that's exactly what I'd expect them to do.. Offer the 24Kwh at a good price and then sell people on the higher capacity at the dealership. On the other hand, 24Kwh will work for a lot of people.

 

[gaswalla]

degradation is an issue. if you only want to drive 30-50 miles a day in the first place, then a lease is great and the current battery will suit you fine. If you want a bigger battery bc you drive more per day, then a lease becomes less attractive. If you decide to take the financial hit of leasing a car and driving it a lot, degradation is still an issue because you will be less and less able to depend on your "big" battery pack as it degrades.
Nissan needs to prove they have a battery that can last outside of the Pacific NW, then they will have legitimacy in selling larger battery packs.

 

[user 10599]

I for one would have been willing to pay another $5,000 - $7,500 for the 36Kwh version. While the current 24 fits my normal commute fine using 80% charging, there's lots of points of interest in the farther reaches of the greater LA area that the 50% boost would open up for me.

Going much more than that in extra price and the scale tips to the Volt for the range flexibility if range is that much of a priority in my choice.

 

[smkettner]

Tesla charges $10,000 for an extra 25 kWh battery.
For this in a LEAF battery say an extra $7,500. But it would need a better warranty and probably a cooling system for me to stay with Nissan.
Certainly it would need to list a battery replacement cost before I purchase again.

It would appear that $7,500 is a reasonable estimate on the price. To answer my own question, Yes I would be willing to pay $7500 more for a 36kWh battery pack.

I would pay $7,500 for the EXTRA 24 kWh or 48 kWh total not the 36.
No way would I pay Nissan more per kWh for a questionable battery vs Tesla that seems more reliable.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

if you only want to drive 30-50 miles a day in the first place, then a lease is great and the current battery will suit you fine.

No it won't. That's the flawed logic that has held Nissan and other EVs back. It doesn't matter that I only drive an average of 30-50 miles per day if one day a week I need to go 100 miles. And no, I'm not going to go rent a car once a week in that situation, I'll just keep buying gas cars. Tesla has figured that out, Nissan hasn't.

 

[DeaneG]

...It doesn't matter that I only drive an average of 30-50 miles per day if one day a week I need to go 100 miles. ... Tesla has figured that out, Nissan hasn't.

Exactly, the average trip is irrelevant. I need an EV which is capable of at least a 2.x-sigma trip (e.g a twice-monthly trip to san francisco, berkeley, or monterey in addition to my daily commute).

 

[adric22]

No it won't. That's the flawed logic that has held Nissan and other EVs back. It doesn't matter that I only drive an average of 30-50 miles per day if one day a week I need to go 100 miles. And no, I'm not going to go rent a car once a week in that situation, I'll just keep buying gas cars. Tesla has figured that out, Nissan hasn't.

Comparing the Leaf to a Tesla is not a very good comparison. It would be one thing if they were priced anywhere near one another, but they aren't. If range is important to you right now your best bet is a PHEV unless you can afford a Tesla, which 99% of people cannot.

 

[ydnas7]

Nissan LEAF ain't no Tesla Model S, and isn't priced like one either.
Comparing base models of both is about $29k vs $71k (both pre tax rebate)
so even if Nissan sold an additional 24kWh pack for $10k, it would be $38k vs $71k ie half the price (after rebates)
different cars, different scope, different performance although EPA 'range' charge for both would be about 168mile vs 208mile

Perhaps Nissan could add an additional 12kWh pack without having to change sheet metal, and still retain rear seats. but 24kWh, sounds tough to just add it and keep rear seats and not change sheet metal. Once rear seats go - desireability drops, once sheet metal changes, costs go up, revalidation is required.

Perhaps an electrified Sentra sedan or Altima sedan could have 24kWh between wheels and 24kWh in the back. Then it could command a premium and be rebadged as Infiniti.....even the to be discontinued Altima coupe would make an interesting EV.

 

[johnrhansen]

I already spent my money. I'll be living with my car for years to come. If it works for me now, it will work for me in 10 years. Even if my battery is half gone.

 

[pthack]

The 48kw (40kw usable) leaf is compelling. Now you have a good mid-distance road car...

For example, now I can drive from Seattle or Tacoma to Spokane with a 1 hour lunch break in Vantage for a QC session, and it's now a viable trip...or Tacoma to Pullman...or Seattle to Portland.

OMG. Now I really CAN replace 97% of the use of my road car, and merely renting one makes sense.

 

[smkettner]

QC would also be more effective with the larger battery.

 

[DaveEV]

I would pay $7,500 for the EXTRA 24 kWh or 48 kWh total not the 36.
No way would I pay Nissan more per kWh for a questionable battery vs Tesla that seems more reliable.

Yeah, the way I figure it is that Tesla charges $400 / kWh to go from the 60-85 kWh Model S. That represents about the maximum I'd pay for more capacity. $7500 should buy about 19 kWh. Not 8 kWh.

That said, I think a lot of people would pay a $36,300 for a 36 kWh LEAF S (LEAF S MSRP = $28,800 + $7,500 = $36,300). If Nissan can add 10 kWh for $4,000 I think they'd sell a ton of them.

QC would also be more effective with the larger battery.

Yeah - you'd get the full 50 kW charge rate for a much longer time - probably all the way up to 80% at least. Regen should also be a lot stronger, too.

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure why people are stuck on the degradation issue. Just lease the vehicle.

Some folks don't like to lease. I'm leasing (for various reasons) but have never leased before, only bought.

I'm worried about racking up too many miles (turns out 12k miles/year is probably too low despite at <25 mile/day commute) and about damage (e.g. door dings, spilling stuff, other interior/exterior damage, etc.) I also hope the stock Ecopias will last me for the duration of my 2 year lease.

 

[ht2]

I am willing to pay $7500 for retrofit my 2011 Leaf to 48 kwh.
Can I lease 48 kwh version for $100/month?

 

[Wennfred]

Hey guys, whats the range on a 48KW battery?

Fred

 

[Berlino]

Hey guys, whats the range on a 48KW battery?

The current 24kWh battery accounts for about 20% of the LEAF's weight.

If you're driving slowly straight up a mountain, double the battery size would only lead to about a 60% gain in range, because the extra weight would be a big factor.

On the other hand, weight is much less of a factor when driving on flat land with infrequent stops. Under those conditions, you might see nearly a 100% gain in range.

These are very rough estimates and I'm sure an Engineer or Scientist on this forum will be able to provide better ones.

 

[adric22]

The current 24kWh battery accounts for about 20% of the LEAF's weight.

Of course, we've yet to hear if this prototype battery weighs any more or takes up any more space. We've seen a ton of stories in the "future battery thread" about possible batteries that are twice as energy dense without taking up any additional space or weight. And who knows.. It is possible Nissan used a battery that does have a ton of energy density but has terrible cycle life, or other trade-offs just for this particular event... Could be this battery would never have any place in a production vehicle.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I am willing to pay $7500 for retrofit my 2011 Leaf to 48 kwh.
Can I lease 48 kwh version for $100/month?

I've thought for some time the contorted messages from Nissan over battery replacement policies and costs could be because the future picture looks quite different, and nobody will want to buy replacements of the existing battery technology anyway. Upgrades could be a whole new line of business for them. It sure looks like there are a lot of variables and they just don't have it sorted out.