Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

[LTLFTcomposite]

Comparing the Leaf to a Tesla is not a very good comparison. It would be one thing if they were priced anywhere near one another, but they aren't. If range is important to you right now your best bet is a PHEV unless you can afford a Tesla, which 99% of people cannot.

I wasn't saying they were comparable, clearly we are talking about wildly differing levels of investment. I was just pointing out the fallacy of the "average miles per day" argument and why that isn't resonating with a lot of consumers.

Price aside, I see market acceptance like a pyramid, with 50 miles of range at the top and 500 miles at the bottom. The further you move down the pyramid the more people say "that works for me".

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Very Interesting, but highly unlikely they have a 48kwh battery that doesn't take up the whole boot space and maybe the back seats.

48 kwh would be a real 120 mile range in winter at 60 mph. I cold live with that.

It needs to charge at much greater than 50 kw though.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It needs to charge at much greater than 50 kw though.

Why? I assume you are talking about L3, that's less than a 1 hour stop.
This still wouldn't be a great solution for those NY to LA runs that so many think are an essential part of everyday life, but for regional trips where you'd only have to make one or at most two stops it seems workable.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It needs to charge at much greater than 50 kw though.

Not really. While that would be great (and CHAdeMO can theoretically offer 200 amps at 400 volts for the current LEAF, which is 80kW), the good news is that the bottom 50% of a 48kWh battery is the full size of the current 24kWh, which means it can charge at full speed for 80-ish miles of range before the charge rate decreases.

At the same 50kW rate (really about 47kW; 395v * 120 amps), you add miles of range much faster with a bigger battery.

 

[reeler]

I bet this is the test mule for the delayed Infinity electric.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

It needs to charge at much greater than 50 kw though.

Why? I assume you are talking about L3, that's less than a 1 hour stop.
This still wouldn't be a great solution for those NY to LA runs that so many think are an essential part of everyday life, but for regional trips where you'd only have to make one or at most two stops it seems workable.

Why ? because the majority of the public who have no interest in cars, never mind electrics will not change unless they can recharge a good 100 miles range in any meaningful time.

It just won't work and it's proved not to work in it's current form.

And this headache of SAE chargers is only going to make people even less enthusiastic about electrics.

When GM, Vag release their electric cars in 2014 and the public can't fast charge I guarantee it will upset a lot of people.

There has to be a CHAdeMo to CCS converter like Tesla have a CHAdeMO to whatever they use, well I know there isn't but there has to be one made available.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I bet this is the test mule for the delayed Infinity electric.

It better not be because if it's only for the infinity and not the Leaf then sales will only be as bad as they are now.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It better not be because if it's only for the infinity and not the Leaf then sales will only be as bad as they are now.

I don't know why they would be. Tesla left an opening a mile wide when they dropped their 40kwh version. An LE in the 40-48 kWh range priced around $50k could be huge. Remember there are a lot of people who shun the Leaf solely on its appearance.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

It needs to charge at much greater than 50 kw though.

Not really. While that would be great (and CHAdeMO can theoretically offer 200 amps at 400 volts for the current LEAF, which is 80kW), the good news is that the bottom 50% of a 48kWh battery is the full size of the current 24kWh, which means it can charge at full speed for 80-ish miles of range before the charge rate decreases.

At the same 50kW rate (really about 47kW; 395v * 120 amps), you add miles of range much faster with a bigger battery.

A larger pack can naturally accept a greater rate of charge so one would assume a 48 kwh pack can charge faster, this I would find acceptable if it could charge at 100 kw. Meaning 80 ish miles range in 15 mins.

I thing the sweet spot is 100 miles range in 5 mins to gain acceptance with the general public. despite what we think there will not be mass transition to electric until this happens.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

It better not be because if it's only for the infinity and not the Leaf then sales will only be as bad as they are now.

I don't know why they would be. Tesla left an opening a mile wide when they dropped their 40kwh version. An LE in the 40-48 kWh range priced around $50k could be huge. Remember there are a lot of people who shun the Leaf solely on its appearance.

That's true, but I don't think the majority of people could afford such a vehicle or would be willing to spend so much.

 

[johnrhansen]

I think a detachable extension battery would be a good idea. The battery in my car suits me just fine except for once in a while. When that day comes I could go to the Nissan dealer or the car rental place, rent the extra battery and install it (It's built for quick installation). When I finish my trip I can turn it back in. There's no point in me owning a 8000 dollar battery and have it degrade with each passing day if I don't need the capacity much of the time.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would be interested at 49 kwh not 48.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I think a detachable extension battery would be a good idea. The battery in my car suits me just fine except for once in a while. When that day comes I could go to the Nissan dealer or the car rental place, rent the extra battery and install it (It's built for quick installation). When I finish my trip I can turn it back in. There's no point in me owning a 8000 dollar battery and have it degrade with each passing day if I don't need the capacity much of the time.

See, the problem as far as the general public see it is, they want the same in a car as they have now, that is, long range and quick refuel time.

Having to go somewhere to pick up a battery and drop it back just won't work with most people.

Despite most people not driving more than 80 miles a day and less means nothing to average Joe, this have been proved now.

The Leaf is not the most expensive car by E.U standards, and still fails to sell in large numbers. It's all to do with the range and recharge times.

A 48 kwh battery would be really cool and should change the minds of many people to have an ev range of 120 winter miles, with a heated battery that could easily be 160 miles.

Now recharging that needs to be quick too. People want convenience. For many people 60 mile winter range and 30 mins depending on battery temps is just laughable.

A work charging infrastructure where only those who travel far enough are allowed to charge, will never happen, but it would greatly cut the cost of installing many more charge points than are needed.

Nissan may think the range of the leaf is suitable for most people, well the public have proved Nissan wrong. They must now listen to what people want.

 

[davewill]

...Nissan may think the range of the leaf is suitable for most people, well the public have proved Nissan wrong. They must now listen to what people want.

Funny, they seem to be able to sell all they can make.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

...Nissan may think the range of the leaf is suitable for most people, well the public have proved Nissan wrong. They must now listen to what people want.

Funny, they seem to be able to sell all they can make.

The cloud around that silver lining is they don't seem to be able to make that many.

 

[P71VIC]

If you saw inside, were any of the batteries inside the passenger compartment or cargo area?

I was just joking. When I take ODBII readings immediately after charging to 80%, I sometimes get amusing out-of-bounds readings from LEAF Spy, it just so happened that one of them corresponded with a 48 kWh LEAF.

tease!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

...Nissan may think the range of the leaf is suitable for most people, well the public have proved Nissan wrong. They must now listen to what people want.

Funny, they seem to be able to sell all they can make.

Just think what they could sell if they offered a 48 kwh battery !

 

[EVerlasting]

If anyone is wondering where did they manage to add battery space: LEAF has a large amount of unused (wasted) space below the trunk compartment. A LEAF owner installed a spare tire in there. He estimates about 8" to 10" depth and since his 17" tire easily fits in there at least 20" length is available. The width is about the same as the trunk. The trunk could have been made deeper for more storage capacity OR this space could be used to extend battery capacity.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If anyone is wondering where did the manage to add battery space: LEAF has a large amount of unused (wasted) space below the trunk compartment. A LEAF owner installed a spare tire in there. He estimates about 8" to 10" depth and since his 17" tire easily fits in there at least 20" length is available. The width is about the same as the trunk. The trunk could have been made deeper for more storage capacity OR this space could be used to extend battery capacity.

That wasted space should be utilized for two Leaf options: one with the smaller battery pack plus a spare tire and larger cargo area, and one with the larger battery - and maybe a slightly larger cargo area...plus run-flat tires.

 

[coolfilmaker]

If anyone is wondering where did the manage to add battery space: LEAF has a large amount of unused (wasted) space below the trunk compartment. A LEAF owner installed a spare tire in there. He estimates about 8" to 10" depth and since his 17" tire easily fits in there at least 20" length is available. The width is about the same as the trunk. The trunk could have been made deeper for more storage capacity OR this space could be used to extend battery capacity.

That wasted space should be utilized for two Leaf options: one with the smaller battery pack plus a spare tire and larger cargo area, and one with the larger battery - and maybe a slightly larger cargo area...plus run-flat tires.

Run flat tires are a no-go for just about any EV. Far too much rolling resistance.