Official Mercedes B-class EV thread

[Valdemar]

Hopefully it won't turn into a 60 mile range EV after 2 years in places like Phoenix, if so it is already a better EV than the Leaf. Not to mention it will have a better interior. Reliability is a concern though.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I think you broke the code! They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.

Sad that it all has to be legislated and that someone can't build a car because it's what people would want. I figured there was some reason why all the cars have about the same range and little more.

I wonder if Nissan will be the first to extend the range in the he 2015 Leaf. I hope so!

(All above comments mean other than Tesla of course!)

 

[nosuchthing]

They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.

Had no idea. Make sense if that is the breaking point to get more "miles" out of compliance.

I mean...it makes economical sense for all involved. Except such low real-world range limits their appeal, since public is getting more and more knowledgeable about EVs, and Leaf range won't do anymore the way it used to. But maybe that suits them just right so as not to sell too many of them. A perfect limit tweak to gauge just the right amount of interest.

 

[TonyWilliams]

They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.

Had no idea. Make sense if that is the breaking point to get more "miles" out of compliance.

All the big German manufacturers are new to this CARB thing, which is why VW, BMW and Mercedes all miraculously will have battery electric cars arriving in California in 2014 as 2015 models. It's not a coincidence. References to Large Vehicle Manufacturers (LVM) does not apply to German car makers; only the 3 big ones in the USA and the 3 big ones in Japan.

California Air Resource Board (CARB)
Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) Requirements

For 2012-2014 model years, 0.79% need to be ZEVs. For 2015 model year, this percentage increases to 3%, and increases again in 2018 model year. The "Req #" in the graph below is how many actual cars must be ZEV per 100,000 cars produced @ 0.79%. "Fast refueling" means either hydrogen cars or battery swapping on BEV cars... it has nothing to do with typical quick charging of battery cars:

Type V - 300+ miles range with fast refueling - Credit 7 - Req # 1,427
Type IV - 200+ miles range with fast refueling - Credit 5 - Req # 2,000
Type III - 100+ miles range with fast refueling - Credit 4 - Req # 2,500
Type III - 200+ miles range……………………... - Credit 4 - Req # 2,500
Type II - 100+ miles range…………………… - Credit 3 - Req # 3,333
Type 1.5 - 75-100 miles range………………... - Credit 2.5 - Req # 4,000
Type 1 - 50-75 miles range…………………..... - Credit 2 - Req # 5,000

Here is the actual ZEV requirement in CARB starting in 2012.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/clean_2009_my_hev_tps_12-09.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(d) Requirements for Large Volume Manufacturers in Model Years 2012 through
2017.

(1) 2012 through 2014 Requirements. A manufacturer must meet the total ZEV
obligation with ZEVs or ZEV credits generated by such vehicles, excluding NEVs and Type 0
ZEVs, equal to at least 0.79% of its annual sales, using either production volume determination
method described in section C.2.1(b) No more than 50% of the total obligation may be met with
PZEVs, No more than 75% of the total obligation may be met with AT PZEVs. No more than
93.4% may be met with Enhanced AT PZEVs, Type 0 ZEVs, and NEVs, other than limits
described in section C.7.6. The entire requirement may be met solely with ZEVs.

(2) 2015 through 2017 Requirements. A manufacturer must meet its ZEV obligation
with ZEVs or ZEV credits generated by such vehicles, excluding NEVs and Type 0 ZEVs, equal
to at least 3% of its annual sales, using either production volume determination method described
in section C.2.1(b). No more than 42.8% of the total obligation may be met with PZEVs, No
more than 57.1% of the total obligation may be met with AT PZEVs. No more than 78.5% may
be met with Enhanced AT PZEVs, Type 0 ZEVs, and NEVs, other than limits described in section
C.7.6. The entire requirement may be met solely with ZEVs.

Details about the # of cars sold by each manufacturer in the US.

http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2500" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

According to an article in the plugincars.com, this Class B EV will be sold all over the US. That is welcome.

It will still be a low volume car (like the Ford Focus EV), I think.

http://www.plugincars.com/built-americans-mercedes-b-class-electric-drive-128333.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Me thinks there is something highly unusual here. Mercedes doesn't give a clear explanation for this situation, but there's an obvious reason: Californian regulation. Mercedes wants to be compliant, but there's more to the story since the car will be available everywhere in the U.S. as well as in several European countries.

 

[redLEAF]

Latest info release ... 200 KM (124 miles) of 'real' range ... (the 'launch' color almost matches my son's VW Golf R in "Rising Blue' --- shades of blue seem to a popular choice for EV's when introduced)

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ic-b-class-will-top-bmws-new-i3#axzz2iMmcD0nH


"With the B class, we are bringing out an electric vehicle with five full-fledged seats and no constraints on trunk space. The B-class Electric Drive has a range of 200 kilometers (124 miles) -- and that's not just on paper. The 200 kilometers can be actually achieved in normal daily use. The car also has a top speed of 160 kph (100 mph). With torque of significantly more than 300 newton meters and with an acceleration of 0 to 62 mph in 7.9 seconds, we are offering sports car feeling in a compact car. And the batteries are fully charged in three hours."

 

[TomT]

If true and everything else checks out, it will definitely be on my short list for my next EV...

"With the B class, we are bringing out an electric vehicle with five full-fledged seats and no constraints on trunk space. The B-class Electric Drive has a range of 200 kilometers (124 miles) -- and that's not just on paper. The 200 kilometers can be actually achieved in normal daily use. The car also has a top speed of 160 kph (100 mph). With torque of significantly more than 300 newton meters and with an acceleration of 0 to 62 mph in 7.9 seconds, we are offering sports car feeling in a compact car. And the batteries are fully charged in three hours."

 

[TonyWilliams]

If true and everything else checks out, it will definitely be on my short list for my next EV...

Like the compliance Rav4 EV, this Daimler EV will not have any quick charge capability. Just the single 40 amp onboard charger.

As to the "real" 100 mile range, just imagine a car slightly larger and heavier than a LEAF with a 28kWh battery... how far will that go?

 

[TomT]

With a 10 Kw charger and the greater range, that is not necessarily a deal breaker for me...

If true and everything else checks out, it will definitely be on my short list for my next EV...

Like the compliance Rav4 EV, this Daimler EV will not have any quick charge capability. Just the single 40 amp onboard charger.

 

[TonyWilliams]

With a 10 Kw charger and the greater range, that is not necessarily a deal breaker for me...

The huge advantage to the Rav4 EV with the same charger (which doesn't help you at all at public charge stations with 208v / 30 amp output = 6.24kW) is the nearly double size battery.

It's bizarro that Mercedes is not at least offering a Frankenplug, which we will have in California within 4 years.

 

[TomT]

It does seem more than just a little odd...

It's bizarro that Mercedes is not at least offering a Frankenplug, which we will have in California within 4 years.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm keeping a close watch on this, but the price north of 40k (very likely) will be a non-starter for me. A 2015 Leaf with a larger and more robust battery, QC, sounds like a better option if it is available.

 

[Bicster]

With nothing better to do right now to fuel my EV dreams, I've been researching the B-Class in Europe and Canada. People seem to think it's a real turd compared to the rest of the Benz line-up... practical, but uncomfortable, with rattles and squeaks and uninspired handling. A fully loaded Canadian model goes for about US$40k. I think it looks nice, although it's about the size of a Leaf (it looks bigger than it is in photos). I'll wait and see what actually arrives and how the press feels about it, but my hopes are dashed for the moment.

One interesting tidbit I picked up is that the B-class platform has a hollow space under the passenger floor, originally intended to improve crashworthiness. Evidently that's used for batteries in the Electric Drive and F-cell variants. You can also see a battery package hanging down under the rear of the car, somewhat like the RAV4 EV, in some of the recent press shots.

On the plus side, I really do think it's a good looking car, with a pleasant interior and some great paint colors on the rest of the B-class line-up. I really dig the instruments, too.

 

[braineo]

i had the Leaf and the b class side by side. The MB is a nicer package than the bug eyed Leaf.

http://insideevs.com/upcoming-mercedes-b-class-caught-in-us-testing-a-couple-times-lots-of-photos/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Bicster]

It's certainly more luxurious and better looking. I just hope it can overcome the shortcomings of its fossil-fuel powered cousins.

 

[Ogi]

It's certainly more luxurious and better looking. I just hope it can overcome the shortcomings of its fossil-fuel powered cousins.

MB is heavily invested in ICU technology. Electric cars are doomed to fail in that organization. Simple case of fratricide.

Which is why for example this model right here is being crippled on what we already very well know is inadequate range to be a mainstream success.

 

[Bicster]

MB is heavily invested in ICU technology. Electric cars are doomed to fail in that organization. Simple case of fratricide.

Which is why for example this model right here is being crippled on what we already very well know is inadequate range to be a mainstream success.

There is exactly one automaker not heavily invested in ICE technology. Your comments might as well apply to everyone making EV's except Tesla (even Nissan, to a lesser degree); They're all crippled "city cars" which is something nobody ever asked for or really wants to buy. They sell because they're EV's and buyers have limited choices if they want an EV. The fact people have choices at all is pretty cool. That Benz is going to sell their Tesla EV conversion outside of CARB states tells me that they think it's going to be profitable and that they don't see EV's as a total waste of time. That's in sharp contrast with Toyota, Honda, Fiat, GM, and probably a few others.

This car, like any limited-range EV, will sell in spite of its limitations, because of the fact that it's electric. And it might sell better than some conversions because it's less compromised and better engineered than, say, a Ford Focus EV... and apparently will be available in greater numbers than the CARB-only compliance cars.

Personally, I think any of these limited range EV's on sale today are just gateway cars while we wait for Tesla to deliver on their promises in 3-4 years... or until Nissan can double range and offer a battery worth owning and not leasing.

 

[Ogi]

There is exactly one automaker not heavily invested in ICE technology. Your comments might as well apply to everyone making EV's except Tesla (even Nissan, to a lesser degree); They're all crippled "city cars" which is something nobody ever asked for or really wants to buy. .

Yes, that's exactly why they are all dragging their feet. The entire industry is lagging here and on purpose.

This car, like any limited-range EV, will sell in spite of its limitations, because of the fact that it's electric. And it might sell better than some conversions because it's less compromised and better engineered than, say, a Ford Focus EV... and apparently will be available in greater numbers than the CARB-only compliance cars..

Yes, but it won't sell like it would if they made it properly instead of crippling it.

Personally, I think any of these limited range EV's on sale today are just gateway cars while we wait for Tesla to deliver on their promises in 3-4 years... or until Nissan can double range and offer a battery worth owning and not leasing.

Agreed on Tesla, but history says the industry will find a way to torpedo them, bury the technology and pay off the politicians to look the other way. Nissan, I wouldnt count on. I have the Leaf and to me it is obvious that they are just playing around. Never mind the electric drive, there are design and ergonomic choices in this car that I know Nissan knows better. I dont think they want this car to be too attractive, too usable or have mainstream appeal.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... That Benz is going to sell their Tesla EV conversion outside of CARB states tells me that they think it's going to be profitable and that they don't see EV's as a total waste of time. That's in sharp contrast with Toyota, Honda, Fiat, GM, and probably a few others.

That's what Daimler says will happen; GM also made those types of comments. The GM result is extremely limited (maybe 1000 total) of their CARB-ZEV compliance car sold only in two CARB states.

My hunch is that like Toyota, Honda, Fiat/Chrysler, VW, et al, the actual end game is pure compliance car.

 

[braineo]

Never mind the electric drive, there are design and ergonomic choices in this car that I know Nissan knows better. I dont think they want this car to be too attractive, too usable or have mainstream appeal.

Bingo! I think you hit it on the nail. I also believe Nissan wanted to make a statement with the Leaf and their first appeal was to the green movement. Strange they have never produced a green Leaf, which would have been too obvious. I also think that they have been quite surprised where is the Leaf making inroads. Atlanta is showing the clear advantage of having the right incentives with the $5k tax credit for both purchases and leases which together with the $7,500 federal tax credit and the HOV / HOT exemption makes it a no-brainer for this traffic clogged city. In order for the demand to explode, there must be enough incentives to make it cheaper than a gasoline. If you send $300 / month in gas and your lease is less than that, it is actually getting a FREE car!

I'm just waiting on what Mercedes will do to make it the #1 choice in Atlanta. The B class will definitely would have a better retained value after 2 years than the Leaf and if they put in all the Mercedes technology to make it almost autopilot, it will all boil to that monthly payment.