Valdemar
Well-known member
Hopefully it won't turn into a 60 mile range EV after 2 years in places like Phoenix, if so it is already a better EV than the Leaf. Not to mention it will have a better interior. Reliability is a concern though.
Sad that it all has to be legislated and that someone can't build a car because it's what people would want. I figured there was some reason why all the cars have about the same range and little more.TonyWilliams said:I think you broke the code! They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.
Had no idea. Make sense if that is the breaking point to get more "miles" out of compliance.TonyWilliams said:They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.
ILETRIC said:Had no idea. Make sense if that is the breaking point to get more "miles" out of compliance.TonyWilliams said:They need 100 miles of "city cycle" range to get more credits per car, which just happens to give them all (including Spark EV) about 80-ish miles range, plus or minus 10-15.
evnow said:Here is the actual ZEV requirement in CARB starting in 2012.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/clean_2009_my_hev_tps_12-09.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(d) Requirements for Large Volume Manufacturers in Model Years 2012 through
2017.
(1) 2012 through 2014 Requirements. A manufacturer must meet the total ZEV
obligation with ZEVs or ZEV credits generated by such vehicles, excluding NEVs and Type 0
ZEVs, equal to at least 0.79% of its annual sales, using either production volume determination
method described in section C.2.1(b) No more than 50% of the total obligation may be met with
PZEVs, No more than 75% of the total obligation may be met with AT PZEVs. No more than
93.4% may be met with Enhanced AT PZEVs, Type 0 ZEVs, and NEVs, other than limits
described in section C.7.6. The entire requirement may be met solely with ZEVs.
(2) 2015 through 2017 Requirements. A manufacturer must meet its ZEV obligation
with ZEVs or ZEV credits generated by such vehicles, excluding NEVs and Type 0 ZEVs, equal
to at least 3% of its annual sales, using either production volume determination method described
in section C.2.1(b). No more than 42.8% of the total obligation may be met with PZEVs, No
more than 57.1% of the total obligation may be met with AT PZEVs. No more than 78.5% may
be met with Enhanced AT PZEVs, Type 0 ZEVs, and NEVs, other than limits described in section
C.7.6. The entire requirement may be met solely with ZEVs.
Details about the # of cars sold by each manufacturer in the US.
http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2500" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Me thinks there is something highly unusual here. Mercedes doesn't give a clear explanation for this situation, but there's an obvious reason: Californian regulation. Mercedes wants to be compliant, but there's more to the story since the car will be available everywhere in the U.S. as well as in several European countries.
redLEAF said:"With the B class, we are bringing out an electric vehicle with five full-fledged seats and no constraints on trunk space. The B-class Electric Drive has a range of 200 kilometers (124 miles) -- and that's not just on paper. The 200 kilometers can be actually achieved in normal daily use. The car also has a top speed of 160 kph (100 mph). With torque of significantly more than 300 newton meters and with an acceleration of 0 to 62 mph in 7.9 seconds, we are offering sports car feeling in a compact car. And the batteries are fully charged in three hours."
TomT said:If true and everything else checks out, it will definitely be on my short list for my next EV...
TonyWilliams said:Like the compliance Rav4 EV, this Daimler EV will not have any quick charge capability. Just the single 40 amp onboard charger.TomT said:If true and everything else checks out, it will definitely be on my short list for my next EV...
TomT said:With a 10 Kw charger and the greater range, that is not necessarily a deal breaker for me...
TonyWilliams said:It's bizarro that Mercedes is not at least offering a Frankenplug, which we will have in California within 4 years.
MB is heavily invested in ICU technology. Electric cars are doomed to fail in that organization. Simple case of fratricide.Bicster said:It's certainly more luxurious and better looking. I just hope it can overcome the shortcomings of its fossil-fuel powered cousins.
Ogi said:MB is heavily invested in ICU technology. Electric cars are doomed to fail in that organization. Simple case of fratricide.
Which is why for example this model right here is being crippled on what we already very well know is inadequate range to be a mainstream success.
Yes, that's exactly why they are all dragging their feet. The entire industry is lagging here and on purpose.Bicster said:There is exactly one automaker not heavily invested in ICE technology. Your comments might as well apply to everyone making EV's except Tesla (even Nissan, to a lesser degree); They're all crippled "city cars" which is something nobody ever asked for or really wants to buy. .
Yes, but it won't sell like it would if they made it properly instead of crippling it.Bicster said:This car, like any limited-range EV, will sell in spite of its limitations, because of the fact that it's electric. And it might sell better than some conversions because it's less compromised and better engineered than, say, a Ford Focus EV... and apparently will be available in greater numbers than the CARB-only compliance cars..
Agreed on Tesla, but history says the industry will find a way to torpedo them, bury the technology and pay off the politicians to look the other way. Nissan, I wouldnt count on. I have the Leaf and to me it is obvious that they are just playing around. Never mind the electric drive, there are design and ergonomic choices in this car that I know Nissan knows better. I dont think they want this car to be too attractive, too usable or have mainstream appeal.Bicster said:Personally, I think any of these limited range EV's on sale today are just gateway cars while we wait for Tesla to deliver on their promises in 3-4 years... or until Nissan can double range and offer a battery worth owning and not leasing.
Bicster said:... That Benz is going to sell their Tesla EV conversion outside of CARB states tells me that they think it's going to be profitable and that they don't see EV's as a total waste of time. That's in sharp contrast with Toyota, Honda, Fiat, GM, and probably a few others.
Bicster said:Never mind the electric drive, there are design and ergonomic choices in this car that I know Nissan knows better. I dont think they want this car to be too attractive, too usable or have mainstream appeal.
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