The Battery Replacement Thread

[Stanton]

So my new battery (Feb 2016) seems to be doing remarkably well.

Here are screenshots from February (new) and June, 4 months on.
No drop from 66.14AHr in 4 months and 3400 miles.
Really?

Seems as though 66.14 AHr is the magic number for all of the new battery packs...until some of that "excess capacity" (wink-wink) is burned off. I finally fell below 66 AHr last week when it started to get hot here...about 6 months after I got my new pack. My guess is you'll see it drop within the next month or so given that summer is in full swing.

 

[hillzofvalp]

I am getting a new pack.... 4th bar took way too long to drop.

Dealer says it could be "3 months" before my pack is available. I'm in Indianapolis now but I'm moving to LA right after the pack is changed. Apparently they are backordered until sometime this month when they do another batch of them. I wonder if these replacements will utilize the 30kWh cells... no sense in manufacturing two different cells at this point...

life cycle for most cell chemistries I think is 2-3 years...so.. pretty soon they are likely to update the 24kWh chemistry or substitute the 30kwh cell

 

[TimLee]

... I wonder if these replacements will utilize the 30kWh cells... no sense in manufacturing two different cells at this point...

No.
The LEAF S lower cost model is still using 24 kWh packs.
And Nissan has stated they do not currently plan a retrofit of 30 kWh packs to LEAFs originally built with 24 kWh packs.

 

[hillzofvalp]

THey have said that but it doesn't make economic sense to not make the plan to switch to 30kWh cells because at some point it's going to be cheaper to make the 30kwh cells than a special run of 24kWh cells.

 

[Stanton]

THey have said that but it doesn't make economic sense to not make the plan to switch to 30kWh cells because at some point it's going to be cheaper to make the 30kwh cells than a special run of 24kWh cells.

Riddle me this: who says they won't start putting 30 KWh packs into our cars and run/limit them as 24 kWh packs? We already know the lizard pack replacements (I have one) are slightly > 24 kWh, but Nissan doesn't officially confirm it. I too believe that one day it will be technically possible to put a larger battery pack into our (old) Leafs, but it may take some third party reverse-engineering to do it (although I would imagine it wouldn't be a huge R&D spend for Nissan).

 

[edatoakrun]

Another report that Nissan may be discontinuing 24 kWh LEAF production:

Nissan Leaf will get a 40 kWh battery this year

...Later this year, around November you’ll be able to choose the Leaf in three trims. The entry level with 30 kWh battery and the mid and high level with 40 kWh battery. The 24 kWh will be discontinued...

http://pushevs.com/2016/07/15/nissan-leaf-will-get-a-40-kwh-battery-this-year/

So, Nissan might find that it is in their best interest to offer ~24 kWh to ~30 kWh pack upgrades to LEAF owners in the USA, in the future.

BMW has priced their pack upgrade for the i3, X post below:

Apparent confirmation of the ~$8,000 cost (with trade-in)to upgrade i3 battery pack, but only for Europe:

BMW i3: battery replacement to 94Ah package is 7,000 euros

...The design of the i3 also allows retrofitting new battery technologies. While customers in the U.S. won’t have this option for now, BMW gives i3 owners in Europe the opportunity of retrofitting their purely electric for a price of 7,000 euros....

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/14/bmw-i3-battery-replacement-94ah-package-7000-euros/

A post by Tom Moloughney last May discussed the question:

Does the BMW i3 battery upgrade make sense?
...So why doesn’t battery retrofit make sense now?

While this sounds great, the truth is it’s still a little premature to get excited about the retrofit program. The i3 is only about two years old, and even the earliest i3s delivered in Europe aren’t even close to the point where they need a battery replacement yet...

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/05/12/bmw-i3-battery-upgrade-make-sense/

Of course, the upgrade question is not so premature for owners of much older LEAFs, like myself.

My 2011 LEAF, after ~46k miles and well into its sixth year of use, has lost ~16% of it's available capacity at delivery (the over-estimate of capacity loss reported by the LBC is now approaching 30%!) and so I estimate my pack now probably only has ~19.5 kWh total capacity remaining.

So, upgrading to a replacement ~30 kWh pack, which would give me a greater than 50% increase in capacity and range than I have today, will be a proposition of interest to me, when and if Nissan announces its USA LEAF pack upgrade program.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=721&start=1610

 

[hillzofvalp]

Guys, There will be a 30kWh-40kWh upgrade for the old leafs... it literally is immoral not to offer and also possibly harmful to their marketing strategy to not do such a simple engineering task.... I expect nissan to announce this shortly after they reveal the next gen leaf.

 

[TimLee]

... it literally is immoral not to offer ...

And where in the seven year history of the LEAF do you find any evidence that their decisions were based on morality :?

 

[davewill]

... it literally is immoral not to offer ...

I'm almost afraid to ask but, how do you figure that one? I could see objecting if they stopped offering replacements altogether, but they have no obligation of any sort to offer a higher capacity upgrade.

 

[keydiver]

they have no obligation of any sort to offer a higher capacity upgrade.

Especially when they have a shiny, new 2017 or 2018 Leaf 2 with a 30 kWh or 40 kWh pack sitting on their lot. As much as I would have loved to see it, it will never happen.

 

[edatoakrun]

they have no obligation of any sort to offer a higher capacity upgrade.

Especially when they have a shiny, new 2017 or 2018 Leaf 2 with a 30 kWh or 40 kWh pack sitting on their lot. As much as I would have loved to see it, it will never happen.

Nissan is a corporation seeking profits.

It will offer a ~30kWh pack upgrade only when and if there is ever a significant market for it.

Currently, there are high government incentives on the battery packs for new LEAF sales, of over $10,000 in many markets, as opposed to zero $ subsidy for the purchase of replacement packs.

Nissan would have very few buyers today for a 30kwh replacement pack, since most can just sell their used LEAF, and buy a new one with a ~30 kWh pack, for a relatively modest increased cost over where Nissan would need to price the ~30 kWh replacement pack.

 

[jmk]

It will offer a ~30kWh pack upgrade only when and if there is ever a significant market for it.

I would guess they offer an upgrade for Leaf 1 when Leaf 2 is on the market. Selling upgrade packs now for older Leafs could potentially kill the sales of new cars. That, and the price of the upgrade has to come down some more (otherwise it's a pointless offering).

 

[Stanton]

So, Nissan might find that it is in their best interest to offer ~24 kWh to ~30 kWh pack upgrades to LEAF owners in the USA, in the future.

I believe this will happen...down the road...in 2-3 years time...and would probably include even larger capacities. Having received a warranty (free) pack replacement, I can actually envision buying one more pack for my Leaf (when this one eventually degrades) if it was significantly larger (like 40+ kWh). The rest of the car seems to be rock-solid.

 

[mark1313]

I think I was one of the first to get the battery replacement here in AZ back in 2013 for my 5/2011 Leaf ....Here it is 2016 and I'm approaching 50K miles and minus 3 bars on 2nd battery ......I would imagine that by Oct I hit the minus 4 bars .... Was the battery warranty program for 5 years from the date of purchase, and if so, does a extended warranty help @ all in a replacement of the main battery after 5 years of ownership ......

 

[QueenBee]

I think I was one of the first to get the battery replacement here in AZ back in 2013 for my 5/2011 Leaf ....Here it is 2016 and I'm approaching 50K miles and minus 3 bars on 2nd battery ......I would imagine that by Oct I hit the minus 4 bars .... Was the battery warranty program for 5 years from the date of purchase, and if so, does a extended warranty help @ all in a replacement of the main battery after 5 years of ownership ......

Yes, the capacity warranty is 5 years from the in service date. The extended warranties do not cover the traction battery.

 

[Stanton]

I think I was one of the first to get the battery replacement here in AZ back in 2013 for my 5/2011 Leaf ....Here it is 2016 and I'm approaching 50K miles and minus 3 bars on 2nd battery ......I would imagine that by Oct I hit the minus 4 bars .... Was the battery warranty program for 5 years from the date of purchase, and if so, does a extended warranty help @ all in a replacement of the main battery after 5 years of ownership ......

Sounds to me like you might get *2* (free) battery packs out of this deal, not to mention Nissan had make comments (back then) about offering upgrades to the lizard battery pack for folks like you. Do you have any AHr numbers? That would give a better idea of when you'll drop the 4th bar.

 

[QueenBee]

I think I was one of the first to get the battery replacement here in AZ back in 2013 for my 5/2011 Leaf ....Here it is 2016 and I'm approaching 50K miles and minus 3 bars on 2nd battery ......I would imagine that by Oct I hit the minus 4 bars .... Was the battery warranty program for 5 years from the date of purchase, and if so, does a extended warranty help @ all in a replacement of the main battery after 5 years of ownership ......

Sounds to me like you might get *2* (free) battery packs out of this deal, not to mention Nissan had make comments (back then) about offering upgrades to the lizard battery pack for folks like you. Do you have any AHr numbers? That would give a better idea of when you'll drop the 4th bar.

How do you figure? Their warranty is certainly past the 5 year mark as I assume "5/2011" was the delivery date since a vin that low wouldn't have been manufactured in 5/2011.

 

[hillzofvalp]

... it literally is immoral not to offer ...

I'm almost afraid to ask but, how do you figure that one? I could see objecting if they stopped offering replacements altogether, but they have no obligation of any sort to offer a higher capacity upgrade.

Not so much "immoral" as it is, generally speaking, a negative impact on society. Chances are more than one person recognizes this inside nissan and won't screw us all over further. I think it is very likely to see large pack upgrades for old leafs from Nissan

 

[hillzofvalp]

It will offer a ~30kWh pack upgrade only when and if there is ever a significant market for it.

I would guess they offer an upgrade for Leaf 1 when Leaf 2 is on the market. Selling upgrade packs now for older Leafs could potentially kill the sales of new cars. That, and the price of the upgrade has to come down some more (otherwise it's a pointless offering).

Can go both ways.. If you know that a car can be upgraded and last a lot longer than 5-10 years, wouldn't you be more interested in buying a new nissan..?

 

[Stanton]

I think I was one of the first to get the battery replacement here in AZ back in 2013 for my 5/2011 Leaf ....Here it is 2016 and I'm approaching 50K miles and minus 3 bars on 2nd battery ......I would imagine that by Oct I hit the minus 4 bars .... Was the battery warranty program for 5 years from the date of purchase, and if so, does a extended warranty help @ all in a replacement of the main battery after 5 years of ownership ......

Sounds to me like you might get *2* (free) battery packs out of this deal, not to mention Nissan had make comments (back then) about offering upgrades to the lizard battery pack for folks like you. Do you have any AHr numbers? That would give a better idea of when you'll drop the 4th bar.

How do you figure? Their warranty is certainly past the 5 year mark as I assume "5/2011" was the delivery date since a vin that low wouldn't have been manufactured in 5/2011.

You're right...my bad.
I saw the word "October" and didn't pay attention to the "5/2011" in service date.
No more free batteries for him! I'm looking for (at least) another 5 years out of my Leaf.