The official "I actually have a new EVSE installed" thread

[garygid]

"coupling means"?

From NEC625.16 (Means of Coupling)
"The means of coupling to the electric vehicle shall be either
conductive or inductive. ... "

In the NEC625.2 (Definitions), an "Electric Vehicle Coupler"
is defined as "A mating electric vehicle inlet and electric
vehicle conector set."

The "Electric Vehicle Conector" is defined as:
"A device ... insertion into an electric vehicle inlet ..."
[The J1772 nozzle]

The "Electric Vehicle Inlet" is defined as:
"... device on the electric vehicle ..."
[The L2 Port on the LEAF.]

So, apparently they mean the J1772 "nozzle".

THUS:
Apparently NOT the AC connection into the EVSE.
If it was, "stored" would not make sense.

The entire e-hose from the EVSE to the car?
Would the bottom of the loops need to be 24" off the floor?
Probably not, since it the cable itself does not conect to
the car's inlet.

The J1772 Nozzle itself? Most likely!
The 4' might be for wheelchair access.
Then, the 2' might be for ... safety above high tide?

 

[Boomer23]

@EVDRIVER: Here's an image of my four incoming power legs to my main breaker, with two TED CTs attached;
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7745/img1537.jpg

@prberg: They used 8 gauge wire, as mwalsh confirmed. I thought about asking them to use 6 gauge, but they didn't even bring anything but 8 gauge with them, and I'm sure that they would have balked at using more expensive wire. Also, due to several right angle bends in the rigid conduit and tight confines at the eave line coming out of the attic, even the 8 gauge wire was difficult for them to pull.

@csriram45: For my cost info, look back a couple of pages in this thread, I spelled it all out there. But quickly, my AV quote was a custom quote, at about $2,636. Because there was a fair bit of work and materials involved in running the 60 or 70 feet between main panel and EVSE, this price wasn't far off of the amount independent electricians would have charged, plus the cost of the EVSE, permits, etc. So for my particular install, AV wasn't out of range. By the way, I seriously doubt that I'll be able to claim the EVSE federal tax credit because of AMT limitations, even though Congress appears to be patching the AMT exemption amounts for 2010 and 2011.

Also, I wanted to mention that having the EVSE actually in place gave me this surprising feeling of "Hey, I have a filling station in my garage now!" Nothing surprising about the fact that it's there, especially for those of us who have been obsessed with the LEAF for many months, but still the novelty of this new paradigm was a nice surprise to me.

EDIT: Also, my TED monitoring system shows that the EVSE is using around 6 to 10 Watts of power in its current powered on and waiting to charge mode. That's a fair amount of vampire power, like 87 kWh/year at the 10 Watt figure. I might shut off the power to it, certainly while I wait, patiently :roll: for my LEAF.

 

[prberg]

Thanks for the great info guys. I'll go with 8 gauge. I'm glad to hear that the 'coupling' refers to the J1772 nozzle. That will be easy for me and makes sense. You want the connectors to be at a good height. I need to mount the main EVSE unit at a higher height due to the available space on my wall.. so it would be above the 4' height. Glad to hear that it should work.

The EV revolution is coming together!!

 

[garygid]

Caution:
Remember that the inspector might not know what we do,
or might interpret rules, etc. differently.

 

[prberg]

Gary,

That's true, But luckily I have been emailing him with my various questions and he is providing some insight (he confirmed that the #8 stranded THWN wire is the correct way to wire the circuit). He even suggested that I schedule him to come out before the install so he can check my plan and make sure everything looks good. He was asking if it needed ventilation, but I told him that since the battery is sealed it shouldn't be giving off toxic fumes (right?). Also since my install will be outside, there should be plenty of airflow.

-Peter

 

[EVDRIVER]

Caution:
Remember that the inspector might not know what we do,
or might interpret rules, etc. differently.

Danger Will Robinson, the sky is falling An inspector can find something wrong with the most perfect installation. That's why people skip the permit process on something as basic as an outlet installation when done by a qualified electrician. I can't believe the amount of energy and money wasted on EVSE FUD. Check back on this topic next year and see what I mean

 

[mwalsh]

Those of us who already have an AV EVSE installed....

I was talking to Paul Glenney from AV about an EVSE-RS which shorted out and melted down the J1772 upon install, due to a software problem.

Those of you who had the AV install with their special testing equipment....did everything seem to go alright? Was any mention made of this failed install? Is the person who experienced the failed install here with us (though I can't imagine it wouldn't have come up in a post if he were!)?

I'm going to call Sarah @ AV later today to see if she has any information on this, and to make sure the units shipped already have had this issue addressed prior to shipment.

In the meantime, I suggest we exchange serial numbers. Mine is SOS01471000019

 

[DarkStar]

I was talking to Paul Glenney from AV about an EVSE-RS which shorted out and melted down the J1772 upon install, due to a software problem.

A software problem? There should be many hardware protections to prevent exactly that from happening (like a fuse). I seriously doubt that software would magically break the unit.

 

[mwalsh]

I was talking to Paul Glenney from AV about an EVSE-RS which shorted out and melted down the J1772 upon install, due to a software problem.

A software problem? There should be many hardware protections to prevent exactly that from happening (like a fuse). I seriously doubt that software would magically break the unit.

Hey. I'm just telling you what the guy told me. You'd think he'd know over you, wouldn't you? You know, on account of him actually working for AV?

 

[tps]

I was talking to Paul Glenney from AV about an EVSE-RS which shorted out and melted down the J1772 upon install, due to a software problem.

A software problem? There should be many hardware protections to prevent exactly that from happening (like a fuse). I seriously doubt that software would magically break the unit.

Not in the RS; we've seen pictures of the inside. Just a contactor between the AC input and the cable to the EV. The 40A breaker in the electrical panel is the "fuse" you speak of... Now, there may be "fusable links", etc to protect some of the lower current stuff on the circuit boards.

 

[garygid]

Part of the AV "test-box" routine MIGHT be to draw more than 30 amps, increasing toward 40 amps, until the EVSE detects "too-high" current and "trips", opening its relay, turning off the outbound power.

If so, a software or hardware "defect" in the EVSE could easily have caused the EVSE to NOT detect the over-current condition and open the relay.

I do not remember reading that the EVSE is required, by any standards, to detect an over-current condition.

However, since the J1772 connector on the AV EVSE e-hose is only "listed" for 30 amps, and the EVSE operates on a 40-amp breaker (which can pass 40 amps for an hour or so), AV probably decided to include the over-current detection function.

Then, if the Control Pilot "specifies" 31 amps, and the EV reads it as 32 amps, would such an EV with a full-power charger cause the AV EVSE to "trip"? What is the over-current set-point?

Of course, with the LEAF only drawing 15 or 16 amps (plus or minus a bit), a properly-functioning 3.3 kW charger in the LEAF would not be a problem.

But, the goal is to protect the EVSE against "improper" or "defective" users or uses.

 

[DarkStar]

I don't think the contactor would be the source of any fire, as very little heat would be generated from there. The source is probably one of the transformers they are using. If the output of the transformers isn't fused going to the rest of the electronics and a short is created you would get a lot of heat buildup and experience a "thermal event." Definitely a hardware design issue at that point, not a software issue because the rest of the electronics need power in the milliampere range, hardly enough power to generate a thermal event via a software command.

 

[LEAFer]

Would AV lose the UL certification ? Should they re-certify ?

 

[mwalsh]

Hardware or software, either way I think we need to be reassured that the units shipped to us are safe.

 

[Boomer23]

Those of us who already have an AV EVSE installed....

I was talking to Paul Glenney from AV about an EVSE-RS which shorted out and melted down the J1772 upon install, due to a software problem.

Those of you who had the AV install with their special testing equipment....did everything seem to go alright? Was any mention made of this failed install? Is the person who experienced the failed install here with us (though I can't imagine it wouldn't have come up in a post if he were!)?

I'm going to call Sarah @ AV later today to see if she has any information on this, and to make sure the units shipped already have had this issue addressed prior to shipment.

In the meantime, I suggest we exchange serial numbers. Mine is SOS01471000019

The serial number on mine is S0S01431000081.

Everything went alright with the testing tool. No mention made of a failed install, unsurprisingly.

The AV testing tool had a noisy fan which came on during the process. The AV guy who was there said that there is a small battery inside the tool which is used to simulate the LEAF during the testing process, and the fan comes on to handle the waste heat.

Here's a tidbit that is guaranteed to get some of you interested. I have a TED monitoring system installed, one part of which was monitoring the new EVSE circuit. I noticed that the TED showed a brief spike of about 6,300 Watts during the time when the EVSE was being tested! I have no idea whether this was an artifact, a transient as power was switched, or a real short term load that the AV testing box used to challenge the EVSE and circuit. The TED doesn't give a time period of how long the spike lasted.

 

[LEAFer]

Here's a tidbit that is guaranteed to get some of you interested. I have a TED monitoring system installed, one part of which was monitoring the new EVSE circuit. I noticed that the TED showed a brief spike of about 6,300 Watts during the time when the EVSE was being tested!

That's actually NOT surprising. Even though it's being installed for the LEAF, the AV-RS unit is capable of 6.3kW, possibly even 6.6 or 7.2 (240V/30A). It's the car that's limited to 3.3. Av installation test may have been checking the AV capabilities, despite what you were told about "simulating a LEAF".

 

[DaveEV]

If there was enough current to melt the J1772 connector, there should have been plenty to trip the circuit breaker.

I suspect it was a problem in the testing tool (fan didn't turn on or test ran too long?), not the EVSE. 6kW is a lot of energy to dissipate.

 

[mwalsh]

Well, I wrote Sarah at AV anyway and we'll see what response we get. I'm sure they wouldn't knowingly ship/install potentially defective EVSEs....the PR blow-back would be enormous for both them and for Nissan.

 

[Leafittome]

The AV meltdown is a concern to me.

My AV EVSE serial number is SOSO1421000534. It was installed on November 9 by Metropolitan Electric, AV's contractor. To date, the city has not inspected the installation because Metropolitan didn't pull a permit. December 9 I checked with them and the city and Metropolitan and AV promised they would pull the permit and arrange an inspection. Still waiting.

Perhaps I should insist they remove the charger and start over again with a different vendor?

 

[kolmstead]

I'd suggest talking with Sarah, end expressing your concerns. I think it's too early to think about removing what is probably a perfectly good EVSE. Switch off the breaker or use the disconnect until you get more information. No power means no risk.

My s/n is SOSO1441000196. There's a little ballpoint 'Fe' after the serial number. I figure that means 'fire extinguished'. Just kidding.

I suspect the AV test box has a big heating element in it. No battery that the installer could carry would be able to suck up a six kilowatt load for more than a fraction of a second. That would explain the loud fan, too. Resistive heater (dummy load) is almost always the simplest, cheapest way to load a power supply.

I, too, have my doubts about a software problem. There's no way you're going to overheat the J1772 connector unless it is making a poor (high resistance) connection with the load.

AeroVironment and Nissan want the rollout to go smoothly. If you have concerns, talk to them! They don't want problems at this stage.

-Karl