The official "I actually have a new EVSE installed" thread

[csriram45]

A local certified electrician is quoting me $2050 to so provide a dedicated line so I could use the PGE E9b meter if I wanted. Here is the description of work.

"100 Amp Meter Main for E9a PGE special rate program. Installation of 1- 30A 240V single phase line to charging location inside garage supplied from new 100 Amp main. Interruption of PGE 200 Amp feed from main utility to garage supplying Main Load Panel for home. Gutter installation for interception of main PGE feed. Polaris connections and complete system testing and balancing."

I don't know if this is a fair estimate or high. any one. This is in the SF Bay area location.

If I were to just install the EVSE charger to existing panel his quote is $395. I will have to pay for permit etc (probably $250) and buy the charger unit ($800).

I am contemplating if its worth doing the extra work for a seperate 100 amp meter. If I do it before the Dec 31st deadline I could use the 50% tax credit for the seperate meter. However I am also thinking that I could go just with a single E9a meter for now instead of dedicated E9b meter.

AV quoted me $2250 for installing just the meter and the permit. of course the charger price is included in this and it connects to my existing main.

Do claim the 50% tax credit, does the EVSE need to be installed and inspected or as long as I have receipts dated to indicate the work was done it is ok? I am not sure if the inspection etc. would be over by the Dec 31st due to the holidays but the electrician is willing to provide the completion of work statement prior to Dec 31st.

The lack of availability of various chargers is another reason I am still waiting..

 

[stanley]

I believe that Congress is in the process of extending the tax "credit" into 2011 tax year. So...you will not have to rush your installation unless you need it for tax year 2010

 

[sdbonez]

Conduit on the outside of the house was not necessary since I had an exposed inside garage wall to work with (see photos).

Glad to see you prevail on this point, Malcolm Made my life easy for my install, too. 'hey, installer guys - see the pics of this install? same for me, please '

(of course, they have to deal with that little thing called a PV system that I've got... trying to decide if I want the second meter and a second lockable shutoff)

 

[stanley]

Sdbonez, thank you very much!!! I had missed Leafme`s thread

 

[Boomer23]

My AV install is going quite well today. Almost done, so I thought I'd post some comments. Pictures later on.

Two electricians from Aliso Electric arrived around 10:30 am. The Aliso dispatcher kept me informed as to when to expect them, and he was accurate. One of the guys was trained on the EVSE install. The other one did the breaker install in my power panel and ran the wiring and conduit. The two guys were friendly, courteous, and knew what they were doing. They listened to my preferences for placement of the conduit, the EVSE, the disconnect box and where I wanted the breaker placed in my panel. They didn't have any issues with my TED sensors being in their way in the power panel. They didn't even cut off my main power at any time.

A young guy, Jason, from AV came separately. He said that he's been asked to visit a few of the installations, take pictures and make sure that the electricians are not having any problems with the AV diagnostic equipment, etc, and that the customers are happy. He left after I talked with him a while, showed him the scope of work and talked EV chat with him for a bit. Nice young man, and he seemed interested in what he was doing and what I had to say (which is saying a lot, since I'm obsessed with this stuff).

The electrician who was working with the EVSE got it placed and wired up to the disconnect box, but was then called away urgently to another job, I assume another EVSE install, though I'm not sure. He said that he'll be back later today to finish powering up the EVSE and check it with AV's tool. The remaining guy finished connecting everything from the disconnect box in the garage to my power panel and he left, finished with his part, around 3 pm.

The connection of the power wiring to the EVSE was very simple, just 3 wires connected to some straightforward connectors inside the unit. So all of the early scary talk about an electrician needing to be specially trained and certified by AV seems to be FUD to me. Of course, because AV needs to warranty the install, they could only operate that way. But as I'm fond of saying, it's not rocket surgery. :roll:

I noticed that there was another AV EVSE box in the back of their truck and thought about snatching it to see how much I could get for it from some of the members here. But they would have caught me, I'm sure. :lol:

I'm happy with the size and placement of the EVSE. I got the 25 foot cable and it will reach anywhere in my garage that I might want to charge an EV, and also far enough out into my driveway that I could charge outdoors if I wanted to. Even at 25 feet long, the cable isn't very heavy, so it's easy to work with. All in all, the Aliso guys did a good job, were clean and efficient, and didn't damage anything in my garden or house, though they needed to access my attic through a hatch in the hallway ceiling. I wish the price on the labor had been lower, but as I've said, they weren't more than a couple hundred different from my lowest bid from an independent electrician.

So now it's 4:35 pm and I'm waiting for the first guy to come back and button up the EVSE, flip on the disconnect switch and check the EVSE.

More later, with pictures.

Cheers.

 

[IBELEAF]

Did you request 25 foot cable?

 

[Boomer23]

Did you request 25 foot cable?

Yes I did.

Update: The Aliso electrician and Jason from AV were back here before 5 pm and finished up the install, testing and "customer training", which consisted of about two sentences, maybe because I came off like I already knew it all. :lol:

 

[garygid]

Still needs "city" inspector to sign off the Permit?

 

[Boomer23]

Still needs "city" inspector to sign off the Permit?

Yes it does, Gary. The electrician left it to me to call for the inspection at my convenience. I just had the city out to inspect my new main panel, and they were prompt and reliable about coming out the next day after I requested the inspection on the city web site.

 

[Boomer23]

Here are my pictures from today's Aerovironment EVSE install by Aliso Electric.

I can't figure out how to put titles on pictures on Imageshack, so here are a few explanations.

-The young man in the black shirt was from AV, observing the installation.
-The pictures of the sealed EVSE box was headed for another customer. I wonder whose that one was.
-You'll see my new 200A main panel and my solar inverter and cutoff boxes.
-I chose to have the EVSE mounted on a piece of 3/4 inch plywood that I supplied, but it could have been put on a stud.
-The green box with the black handle is AV's validation tool for the installers to use to check the function.

The installation involved:
-Romex from new 40A breaker in new main panel directly into my attic.
-Junction box in the attic connecting Romex to wiring in flex conduit.
-Flex conduit connected to rigid conduit for outside run through atrium garden.
-Connection through stucco in garage wall to flex conduit inside garage to disconnect box.
-Flex conduit from disconnect box to EVSE.

http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=aimg1636.jpg

 

[leafme]

Thanks for the photos Boomer. I'm a bit surprised about how low the unit is on the wall. Seems you have to bend over to use it or does it just appear appear that way? Also, didn't notice any hard hats on the job. ECOtality's contractor Sunwest was very careful about using orange cones with plastic "chains" around the work area in my garage and on the street and wearing all safety gear. Glad it worked out for you.

My inspection will come next week (not yet scheduled) followed by a utility meter set.

Just waiting on the boat in to L.A. harbor. (tick... tock...)



Malcolm

 

[Boomer23]

Malcolm, thanks for your comments.

The placement didn't seem low to me. There was a guideline that the electricians were using that it couldn't be higher than something like 4 feet off the ground for some reason. The way it's placed, the flex conduit will allow me to move it higher if I find that it's a problem. But it seems okay to me.

Regarding hard hats and orange cones, I was thinking about your pictures today. I have to say that precautions like that seem very silly to me after having gone through the install today. It was similar to putting in a new 240 Volt line for an electric dryer. Who ever heard of having hard hats and orange cones for something like that? I think that some of these companies may be worried that there is going to be a tendency for hysterical safety fears among the public about EVs, so they are going overboard on the safety side at first. Did you see anything during your installation that could have caved in one of the guys' heads of they didn't wear a hard hat?

 

[Boomer23]

@Boomer23, I have two TED MTUs. One set monitors my solar and the other my house.
Two issues: The TED network device aka "Gateway", is highly susceptible to noise from other digital devices like computers, DVRs or even CFL bulbs. So, in my older home I had a problem finding an outlet that was reliable as well as accessible by 10-baseT to my router.
Also, my panel did not have accessible incoming conductors. That is, from the meter to the panel there was a direct connection via bussbar, not say 000, wire. Thus, there was no way to wrap the MTU connectors around the bussbar to get an input current reading. I ended up separating the wires coming out of the circuit breakers according to which 240V leg they were on and encircling each group with the MTU connectors. Once these two things were done, the TED worked perfectly and has ever since. Also, Google Powermeter has been a nice addition.
Good luck!

Hi sparky (and EVDRIVER, if you're monitoring).

I'm up and running with a TED 5003. One MTU for my main utility feed, one MTU for my solar inverter backfeed, and one for my EVSE circuit. I found a good outlet for my gateway that was actually in my home office, so I just had to buy a longer network cable to my router.

The big problem is that in my new power panel, the main feeds from the meter to the main breakers are split into dual parallel feeds. So I have two red and two black wires coming to my main breaker. They are physically separated (alternated) enough that I can't clamp one CT around both red or both black legs. The best I can do is to clamp one CT around one red leg and one CT around one black leg. That doesn't do the whole job. Since I'm sure my utility won't let me put CTs around their feed wires before the meter, I have to get creative. I don't think I can gather the wires from each leg like sparky did.

On the TED forum, one guy suggested getting an extra set of CTs and wiring them in series to the first set, so that MTU1 has four CTs on it, with one CT clamped around each of the four incoming legs.

Do you have any idea whether this will work?
Thanks!

 

[prberg]

Malcolm, thanks for your comments.

The placement didn't seem low to me. There was a guideline that the electricians were using that it couldn't be higher than something like 4 feet off the ground for some reason. The way it's placed, the flex conduit will allow me to move it higher if I find that it's a problem. But it seems okay to me.

I was talking to my city inspector today and he said we have to follow the 2007 California electrical code (article 625). In there it says that for indoor installs the EVSE has to be more than 18" and less than 4' above the ground. For outdoor you have to be at least 24" above the ground and no higher than 4' (which might be a problem for me).

Boomer.. do you know what gauge wire they used between your panel and the EVSE? I am trying to see if I should use #10, #8, or #6, and what type is best.

thanks,
Peter

 

[mwalsh]

Boomer.. do you know what gauge wire they used between your panel and the EVSE? I am trying to see if I should use #10, #8, or #6, and what type is best.

You'll be on a 40A breaker, so #8 is going to be your minimum, and the appropriate size for the EVSE's connection block - someone installed it with #6 and found it quite a chore to get the wires seated.

 

[EVDRIVER]

@Boomer23, I have two TED MTUs. One set monitors my solar and the other my house.
Two issues: The TED network device aka "Gateway", is highly susceptible to noise from other digital devices like computers, DVRs or even CFL bulbs. So, in my older home I had a problem finding an outlet that was reliable as well as accessible by 10-baseT to my router.
Also, my panel did not have accessible incoming conductors. That is, from the meter to the panel there was a direct connection via bussbar, not say 000, wire. Thus, there was no way to wrap the MTU connectors around the bussbar to get an input current reading. I ended up separating the wires coming out of the circuit breakers according to which 240V leg they were on and encircling each group with the MTU connectors. Once these two things were done, the TED worked perfectly and has ever since. Also, Google Powermeter has been a nice addition.
Good luck!

Hi sparky (and EVDRIVER, if you're monitoring).

I'm up and running with a TED 5003. One MTU for my main utility feed, one MTU for my solar inverter backfeed, and one for my EVSE circuit. I found a good outlet for my gateway that was actually in my home office, so I just had to buy a longer network cable to my router.

The big problem is that in my new power panel, the main feeds from the meter to the main breakers are split into dual parallel feeds. So I have two red and two black wires coming to my main breaker. They are physically separated (alternated) enough that I can't clamp one CT around both red or both black legs. The best I can do is to clamp one CT around one red leg and one CT around one black leg. That doesn't do the whole job. Since I'm sure my utility won't let me put CTs around their feed wires before the meter, I have to get creative. I don't think I can gather the wires from each leg like sparky did.

On the TED forum, one guy suggested getting an extra set of CTs and wiring them in series to the first set, so that MTU1 has four CTs on it, with one CT clamped around each of the four incoming legs.

Do you have any idea whether this will work?
Thanks!

Call Ted and ask them since they could tell you if series clamps would work. Do you have a picture?

 

[csriram45]

Thanks for the detailed post and pics Boomer. That seems like a lot of work. how much did AV quote you for your work. Considering some of us have easy work and they quote $2300 wonder how much did he quote you for and how much did an independent contractor quote you for same work?

 

[garygid]

Is the 18" low and 4' high the distance to the bottom/top of the EVSE, or to the electrical connection point?

With 1.5' low and 4' high, the 2-piece "Blink" might not even "fit" into the 2.5' allowed space, right?

With "Blink" EVSE, I assume the lower "e-hose" spool is ignored?

Thanks, Gary

 

[prberg]

Here is what the CA electrical code says:

(B)Height. Unless specifically listed for the purpose and location, the coupling means of the electric vehicle supply equipment shall be stored or located at a height of not less than 24 in. and not more than 4 ft. above the parking surface.

Does that mean the end of the cable needs to meet that height restriction, or the main part of the EVSE? Hard to figure what some of these codes actually say.

thanks,
Peter

 

[tps]

Here is what the CA electrical code says:

(B)Height. Unless specifically listed for the purpose and location, the coupling means of the electric vehicle supply equipment shall be stored or located at a height of not less than 24 in. and not more than 4 ft. above the parking surface.

Does that mean the end of the cable needs to meet that height restriction, or the main part of the EVSE? Hard to figure what some of these codes actually say.

thanks,
Peter

The "coupling means" is the plug; that is what has to be "stored or located" 24 in to 4 ft above the parking surface.