2016 30 kWh Battery data

[TimLee]

... Hope they do a better job with EV batteries then Samsung did with their cellphone batteries as I sit here looking at my charging Note 7 wondering if if a face shield would be a wise investment...

The latest recommendation was to leave them turned OFF :shock:

FAA recommending they NOT be brought on planes.

Also if the battery explodes, it will likely destroy the whole phone.

They really aren't safely usable till they get new batteries.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

... Hope they do a better job with EV batteries then Samsung did with their cellphone batteries as I sit here looking at my charging Note 7 wondering if if a face shield would be a wise investment...

The latest recommendation was to leave them turned OFF :shock:

FAA recommending they NOT be brought on planes.

Also if the battery explodes, it will likely destroy the whole phone.

They really aren't safely usable till they get new batteries.

yeah. that is what they tell me

 

[johnlocke]

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark. Battery stats are 73.23AH SOH 92% Hx 86.37%. 336 gids at full charge. I'm down by 7.5% from new in 9 months. Most of the loss has been over the summer. If I continue at this rate, I'm only going to get about 70K miles before the battery gets replaced under warranty. What concerns me even more is that most of the loss is over the summer with high temps of 95-105 during the day. I don't think that Nissan has gotten the chemistry right yet. If high temps are still a problem then Nissan is going to be replacing a lot of batteries in the South and Southwest. It seems that Nissan only sold about 8000 2016 Leafs this year in the US. I suspect that almost all of them were 30 KWH models. If you wanted a 24 KWH, you probably bought a 2015 at fire sale prices.

The loss in range is noticeable but not large. What I do notice is that I'm using a few percent more of the battery capacity for the same errands now than I used to. A 55 mi day That used to take 52% now takes 57 or 58%. A long day with 72-75 mi used to leave me with 28-29% but now leaves me with 20-22%. I don't think A/C or Heating has too much to do with it since the indicated range loss has always been only a couple of miles and I run both often.

Ideally, the battery should last as long as Nissan said (80% at 100K). That would give me 150-170k before I would need to replace the battery. If I have the battery replaced under warranty at 70K, I'll be lucky to see 140K before the battery fails again. If I can get to 80 or 90K before replacing the battery, I'd be much happier. That would give me what Nissan promised originally. I tend to drive a car into the ground (200K+) over 10 years or so.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark. Battery stats are 73.23AH SOH 92% Hx 86.37%. 336 gids at full charge. I'm down by 7.5% from new in 9 months. Most of the loss has been over the summer. If I continue at this rate, I'm only going to get about 70K miles before the battery gets replaced under warranty. What concerns me even more is that most of the loss is over the summer with high temps of 95-105 during the day. I don't think that Nissan has gotten the chemistry right yet. If high temps are still a problem then Nissan is going to be replacing a lot of batteries in the South and Southwest. It seems that Nissan only sold about 8000 2016 Leafs this year in the US. I suspect that almost all of them were 30 KWH models. If you wanted a 24 KWH, you probably bought a 2015 at fire sale prices.

The loss in range is noticeable but not large. What I do notice is that I'm using a few percent more of the battery capacity for the same errands now than I used to. A 55 mi day That used to take 52% now takes 57 or 58%. A long day with 72-75 mi used to leave me with 28-29% but now leaves me with 20-22%. I don't think A/C or Heating has too much to do with it since the indicated range loss has always been only a couple of miles and I run both often.

Ideally, the battery should last as long as Nissan said (80% at 100K). That would give me 150-170k before I would need to replace the battery. If I have the battery replaced under warranty at 70K, I'll be lucky to see 140K before the battery fails again. If I can get to 80 or 90K before replacing the battery, I'd be much happier. That would give me what Nissan promised originally. I tend to drive a car into the ground (200K+) over 10 years or so.

you are putting way too much into what is way too short a data profile which is one thing but then you go on the extrapolate future replacements using the same few months of data.

there has been several volumes worth of comments, data and LEAF Spy screenshots showing that any reading can be manipulated.

 

[johnlocke]

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark. Battery stats are 73.23AH SOH 92% Hx 86.37%. 336 gids at full charge. I'm down by 7.5% from new in 9 months. Most of the loss has been over the summer. If I continue at this rate, I'm only going to get about 70K miles before the battery gets replaced under warranty. What concerns me even more is that most of the loss is over the summer with high temps of 95-105 during the day. I don't think that Nissan has gotten the chemistry right yet. If high temps are still a problem then Nissan is going to be replacing a lot of batteries in the South and Southwest. It seems that Nissan only sold about 8000 2016 Leafs this year in the US. I suspect that almost all of them were 30 KWH models. If you wanted a 24 KWH, you probably bought a 2015 at fire sale prices.

The loss in range is noticeable but not large. What I do notice is that I'm using a few percent more of the battery capacity for the same errands now than I used to. A 55 mi day That used to take 52% now takes 57 or 58%. A long day with 72-75 mi used to leave me with 28-29% but now leaves me with 20-22%. I don't think A/C or Heating has too much to do with it since the indicated range loss has always been only a couple of miles and I run both often.

Ideally, the battery should last as long as Nissan said (80% at 100K). That would give me 150-170k before I would need to replace the battery. If I have the battery replaced under warranty at 70K, I'll be lucky to see 140K before the battery fails again. If I can get to 80 or 90K before replacing the battery, I'd be much happier. That would give me what Nissan promised originally. I tend to drive a car into the ground (200K+) over 10 years or so.

you are putting way too much into what is way too short a data profile which is one thing but then you go on the extrapolate future replacements using the same few months of data.

there has been several volumes worth of comments, data and LEAF Spy screenshots showing that any reading can be manipulated.

You have a point in that I'm using what is essentially one data point. On the other hand it's all I've got. Nissan has a known problem with high temperatures and even the Lizard batteries degrade under those conditions, just not as fast as the old batteries. If you've got data from a 30 KWH car please present it. The more data points the better. The reason I'm posting at all is to get that data out. It could be that after an initial drop the curve flattens out. That would be what I'd expect. I just don't have that data yet. All that said, it looks to me that these batteries aren't going to make it to 100K in really hot climates.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark. Battery stats are 73.23AH SOH 92% Hx 86.37%. 336 gids at full charge. I'm down by 7.5% from new in 9 months. Most of the loss has been over the summer. If I continue at this rate, I'm only going to get about 70K miles before the battery gets replaced under warranty. What concerns me even more is that most of the loss is over the summer with high temps of 95-105 during the day. I don't think that Nissan has gotten the chemistry right yet. If high temps are still a problem then Nissan is going to be replacing a lot of batteries in the South and Southwest. It seems that Nissan only sold about 8000 2016 Leafs this year in the US. I suspect that almost all of them were 30 KWH models. If you wanted a 24 KWH, you probably bought a 2015 at fire sale prices.

The loss in range is noticeable but not large. What I do notice is that I'm using a few percent more of the battery capacity for the same errands now than I used to. A 55 mi day That used to take 52% now takes 57 or 58%. A long day with 72-75 mi used to leave me with 28-29% but now leaves me with 20-22%. I don't think A/C or Heating has too much to do with it since the indicated range loss has always been only a couple of miles and I run both often.

Ideally, the battery should last as long as Nissan said (80% at 100K). That would give me 150-170k before I would need to replace the battery. If I have the battery replaced under warranty at 70K, I'll be lucky to see 140K before the battery fails again. If I can get to 80 or 90K before replacing the battery, I'd be much happier. That would give me what Nissan promised originally. I tend to drive a car into the ground (200K+) over 10 years or so.

you are putting way too much into what is way too short a data profile which is one thing but then you go on the extrapolate future replacements using the same few months of data.

there has been several volumes worth of comments, data and LEAF Spy screenshots showing that any reading can be manipulated.

You have a point in that I'm using what is essentially one data point. On the other hand it's all I've got. Nissan has a known problem with high temperatures and even the Lizard batteries degrade under those conditions, just not as fast as the old batteries. If you've got data from a 30 KWH car please present it. The more data points the better. The reason I'm posting at all is to get that data out. It could be that after an initial drop the curve flattens out. That would be what I'd expect. I just don't have that data yet. All that said, it looks to me that these batteries aren't going to make it to 100K in really hot climates.

LOL!! I am only pointing out that you haven't had the car a year and you have already speculated beyond your 2nd pack replacement

 

[carlosabel123]

2016 30 kWh 19603km Battery data

Leafspy screenshot:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B39OuhS1jxqaTVNXODU2R2tjVUE/view

 

[RockyNv]

Here in Tampa Bay Florida its quite common to see 2011 to 2013 Leafs with 30,000 to 40,000 miles on them with 9 bars or less up for sale. If you live in a climate where roadway temperatures can be well over 100 degrees for days on end the batteries don't appear to hold up that well especially if you use charging stations that are out in the open. The expectation is 32,000 to 50,000 miles with the old batteries around here so if someone in a semi-tropical area told me 60,000 to 70,000 miles is what the data he currently has indicates with the new style 30kwh batteries I would not find that a stretch.

Here on a car with an internal combustion engine and a coolant temperature gauge its not uncommon to see a car that has not been driven for a day or so with a coolant temperature reading of 120 or more degrees before starting it after just sitting there parked which is the number that Nissan publishes as the battery failure point after 24 hours of exposure. Even spiral cell and other new long life 12 volt car battery types fail in a relatively few years due to our hot sun despite reports that in other cooler parts of the country people get 8 to 10 years or more from them.

Thankfully I charge at work in an open parking garage with plenty of cross flow ventilation. Yet that might mean that the battery in my 2014 won't fail until after the range warranty expires.

 

[gshepherd]

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark. Battery stats are 73.23AH SOH 92% Hx 86.37%. 336 gids at full charge. I'm down by 7.5% from new in 9 months. Most of the loss has been over the summer.

I have two LEAF SVs, each under 3000 miles on the odometer and purchased in May of this year. Battery stats are basically the same as yours. These cars are in the gentle Pacific Northwest and garaged much of the time. We've not even had a hot summer. One car has had 2 QCs, and the other has had 11 QCs. The car with the more QCs actually is a 1% higher SOH than the other.

I expected an initial drop during the first year, and then a shallower decline. That seems to be what is happening to my cars, but time will tell. I also expect Nissan to stand by their warranty.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

well unless they are giving away 24 kwh cars, I will be getting 30 or better in the next few months. Its almost like getting a whole new car!

 

[rmay635703]

Nissan owns Mitsubishi, the imievs don't degrade much at all,

Food for thought, Nissan could borrow from its "supplier"

 

[armelwani]

I am a little concerned about my new 2016 SL. Quick background - vehicle was manufactured 10/22/15, dealer took delivery 11/17/15, I purchased the vehicle 9/19/16 with 135 miles on the odo. Yes, it was sitting on the lot for almost a year, so I got a REALLY good deal on it. Here's the LeafSpy when I purchased the vehicle 9/19/16:

After purchasing I drove it around and did a couple partial L2 charges, keeping the SOC% between 30%-80%. I finally did a full L2 charge from 22% yesterday, 9/25/16, with odo reading 370 and here's the LeafSpy reading after the full charge and all lights on dash went off:

The SOH%, AHr, and Hx% all dropped dramatically! There are also a LOT of red bars. I was hoping the cells would balance and I'd have all the GIDs available again, but quite the opposite has happened. Should I be concerned? I have read this whole thread and sounds like maybe a L3 charge from 30% to 90% would help the cells balance and get the numbers back up?

 

[vwDavid]

Probably too little data. Report back after 1000 more miles and more 100% charges. The battery may never have been balanced yet.

 

[camasleaf]

+1 Key words: "a few 100% charges"

 

[johnlocke]

If you have DC quick charge available, do several quick charges from 50% or less followed up by topping off overnight at home. The overnight charging will give the cells time to rebalance themselves. The DC charging will exercise the battery. Several people have noted that high usage seems to improve stats as well. Good luck and let us know if that helps.

 

[armelwani]

Thanks, everyone. I guess I'm jumping the gun a little on a new vehicle. Just a little nervous as it has been on the lot for almost a year, and my experiences with my 2011 Leaf were less than stellar.

I do have DCQC available to me, so will "exercise" the battery over the next few days and get some more 100% charges done over the next week or so and post results when I have them.

 

[powersurge]

armelwani, You just bought the new car... You can't be judging the car by a few charges. The car will settle to its best battery levels in weeks, or months, or more. I have a 2015 for 2 years, that has 25K miles, with 100% SOH... So don't worry, don't even use leaf spy until one year to get a baseline of the battery. Otherwise it is like the person that that is constantly their pulse.. You can make yourself crazy..

 

[johnlocke]

"armelwani" - I purchased the vehicle 9/19/16 with 135 miles on the odo. Yes, it was sitting on the lot for almost a year, so I got a REALLY good deal on it.

I just gotta ask. What did you pay for it? I bought mine back in Dec 2015. I want to know how much it cost me to be "first on the block".

I just noticed that your S/N is actually lower than mine so we both have early production models!

Also, keep in mind that several others here bought 2016 Leafs with low battery readings when new. It might not be unusual to have low readings for cars that have sat on the lots a long time. It might also be normal aging for 30 KWH batteries. I've got 15,000 mi on my car and my readings aren't far off from yours. Since Nissan has stated that these batteries are supposed to have 80% of their original capacity at 100K and hopefully actually have done some lab studies, it might be that there is an initial drop followed by a flattening of the curve. We need more data points to find out what's really happening. My best GUESS at this point is that Nissan still hasn't got the chemistry right though. Other EV's seem to have 2-3% loss per year and it appears to be linear. Most of those have active temperature management for the batteries. I wonder why?

 

[armelwani]

johnlocke - MSRP was $36,810 for SL w/ Premium Package (Bose and All Around Cameras). I negotiated down to $26,810 on the nose (inc. title, tax, etc.) I got $2,000 customer cash, $4,000 NMAC, and $4,000 dealer discount and they threw in the tax, title, etc. Financed the rest for 60 months. Purchase, not lease. I will still get the Federal, State, and Local incentives.

As for the battery, I'm going to keep my hopes up and do some more 100% charges and DCQC to exercise the pack, and then report back after I've hit 1,000 on the odo. As it's been sitting on a lot for so long, and has a relatively low odo, I'm inclined to think the pack has never really had much balancing. It will probably take several months to get a reliable reading, fingers crossed!

 

[johnlocke]

johnlocke - MSRP was $36,810 for SL w/ Premium Package (Bose and All Around Cameras). I negotiated down to $26,810 on the nose (inc. title, tax, etc.) I got $2,000 customer cash, $4,000 NMAC, and $4,000 dealer discount and they threw in the tax, title, etc. Financed the rest for 60 months. Purchase, not lease. I will still get the Federal, State, and Local incentives.

As for the battery, I'm going to keep my hopes up and do some more 100% charges and DCQC to exercise the pack, and then report back after I've hit 1,000 on the odo. As it's been sitting on a lot for so long, and has a relatively low odo, I'm inclined to think the pack has never really had much balancing. It will probably take several months to get a reliable reading, fingers crossed!

Damn. After rebates and tax credits that's 17K for a new car. That's a hell of a deal. Even if the battery craps out at 101K and you pay to replace it, it's still a bargain!