2016 30 kWh Battery data

[armelwani]

Thanks! Once we saw how much the dealer really wanted to sell the car, we knew we could work a great deal. They had six other SL's on the lot, most with the Premium Package, so they were definitely anxious to get rid of one. I picked the only Forged Bronze one they had, such a great color for the Leaf!

 

[armelwani]

So I'm at 1,326 miles and have now done 8 QC's and 23 L2's, including several L2 charges where I went down to about 20% and then charged to 100% to balance the cells. Current variance is 13mV. My AHr is now at 68.05, Hx = 82.90% and SOH=85%.

I've decided to take the car into the dealership, and just dropped it off this morning. I showed them my LeafSpy readings and then compared it to a new 2016 SL they had on the lot, which has 100% SOH, 98.73% Hx, and 80.12 Ahr. They agreed something funny is going on and will take a look. I'll update once I hear back from them on what they find.

 

[rcm4453]

So I'm at 1,326 miles and have now done 8 QC's and 23 L2's, including several L2 charges where I went down to about 20% and then charged to 100% to balance the cells. Current variance is 13mV. My AHr is now at 68.05, Hx = 82.90% and SOH=85%.

I've decided to take the car into the dealership, and just dropped it off this morning. I showed them my LeafSpy readings and then compared it to a new 2016 SL they had on the lot, which has 100% SOH, 98.73% Hx, and 80.12 Ahr. They agreed something funny is going on and will take a look. I'll update once I hear back from them on what they find.

Yeah please do give us an update. I leased my Leaf 8 months ago, have 8k miles on it and I'm down to 92% SOH. I talked to my dealer about it as well and they don't think it should be dropping that fast. I'm not too worried as it's under warranty anyway, I'm more curious if there's something wrong with these 30 kWh packs.

 

[armelwani]

Naturally, the dealer didn't find anything wrong. The health of the battery, as far as their basic tests go, is fine. I was given the usual speech about range being dependent on factors such as weather, driving style, etc.

I called the Nissan EV service line while at the dealership and opened a case with them. The person I spoke with said what I am describing from LeafSpy would indicate a battery in degradation, which shouldn't be happening with such a new car. They will be contacting the Service Manager separately, as he was unavailable at the time, to discuss further.

I tested another 30kwh Leaf on the lot before leaving, and saw even better stats than the one I saw this morning. Not that it matters much, as my Leaf had great stats when I picked it up and only after its first 100% charge did the stats start falling.

On a full charge to lights off on the dash, which the car stops at 97.7% SOC according to LeafSpy, I have 312 Gids and 24.1kwh usable. Can anyone else with a 30kwh Leaf please post their stats? I want to know what's going on with my battery.

 

[Valdemar]

My prognosis they won't do a thing until your car throws a DTC or drops to 8 capacity bars.

 

[cwerdna]

My prognosis they won't do a thing until your car throws a DTC or drops to 8 capacity bars.

Agreed, or if it fails the CVLI test. Leaf Spy is not an official Nissan tool. Nissan has never publicly documented (AFAIK) anything that Leaf Spy retrieves and displays.

On a full charge to lights off on the dash, which the car stops at 97.7% SOC according to LeafSpy, I have 312 Gids and 24.1kwh usable.

I ignore the kWh number reported by Leaf Spy. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=472552#p472552 as to why.

I haven't gone thru the entire thread but these have some gid values at a full charge:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=443319#p443319: 356
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=451527#p451527: 363
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=457686#p457686: 362

 

[lorenfb]

My prognosis they won't do a thing until your car throws a DTC or drops to 8 capacity bars.

Agreed, or if it fails the CVLI test. Leaf Spy is not an official Nissan tool. Nissan has never publicly documented (AFAIK) anything that Leaf Spy retrieves and displays.

On a full charge to lights off on the dash, which the car stops at 97.7% SOC according to LeafSpy, I have 312 Gids and 24.1kwh usable.

I ignore the kWh number reported by Leaf Spy. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=472552#p472552 as to why.

I haven't gone thru the entire thread but these have some gid values at a full charge:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=443319#p443319: 356
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=451527#p451527: 363
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=457686#p457686: 362

As with any device that uses a battery, e.g. a laptop top, a cell phone, & or even an ICEV (cold starting),
keep it simple and just focus on Ahr with mileage over time.

 

[soldcake]

My SV: ODO=1625, AHr=74, SOH=93%, Hx=89%, min/avg/max=3.823 3.828 3.836 (13mV)
(LeafSpy Lite)

 

[armelwani]

I went back to the dealer this morning and met with the Sales Manager and Service Manager. I told them I'm within 30 days of buying the car and they need to make this right. Either give me a new car or replace the battery. The SOH% and AHr plummeting so rapidly is insane.

They contacted Nissan with my case number and Nissan has agreed to send a technician to investigate my car further. They are getting it scheduled but should be within the next week. I guess that's the best I can hope for right now. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[rcm4453]

I went back to the dealer this morning and met with the Sales Manager and Service Manager. I told them I'm within 30 days of buying the car and they need to make this right. Either give me a new car or replace the battery. The SOH% and AHr plummeting so rapidly is insane.

They contacted Nissan with my case number and Nissan has agreed to send a technician to investigate my car further. They are getting it scheduled but should be within the next week. I guess that's the best I can hope for right now. I'll keep everyone posted.

Yeah people have 2013 Leafs with quite a few miles racked up with better battery stats then what you're seeing on a new Leaf! Heck, my Mom has a 2012 Leaf with 45k miles and she's at 83% SOH! I wonder what their equipment shows when they check the battery? How could they think a new car with such a drop in AHr be considered ok or normal? I'm very curious how all this will play out.

 

[TimLee]

... I told them I'm within 30 days of buying the car and they need to make this right. ...

You previously said you purchased the 2016 SL on 9/19/16 and financed the remainder for 60 months.

What do you mean you are buying within 30 days :?:

If you mean you plan to pay the loan off, Nissan or the dealer absolutely do not care about that.

I agree the car may have a defect.
Dealer should run CVLI test.
Nissan will need that to evaluate.

It may have a bad cell pair or two.
That was shown in a few cases on 2011 to result in rapid capacity loss.
But in some cases it did not generate DTCs.

 

[armelwani]

You previously said you purchased the 2016 SL on 9/19/16 and financed the remainder for 60 months.

What do you mean you are buying within 30 days :?:

If you mean you plan to pay the loan off, Nissan or the dealer absolutely do not care about that.

Sorry, I meant that I only purchased the car from them less than a month ago, emphasizing that this is a brand new car and shouldn't have these problems.

I agree the car may have a defect.
Dealer should run CVLI test.
Nissan will need that to evaluate.

It may have a bad cell pair or two.
That was shown in a few cases on 2011 to result in rapid capacity loss.
But in some cases it did not generate DTCs.

The dealer hasn't run that test to my knowledge. I told them that when the Nissan tech comes down to review the car I want to be present and I want them to run a CVLI test.

 

[Valdemar]

Afaik LeafSpy runs the CVLI test, did you see any cells marked as "weak" in LeafSpy? In fact it often flags cells as "weak" at the low SOC, which is considered to be a false positive abd I think CVLI results by itself is not an actionable symptom unless there is also a DTC.

 

[armelwani]

No cells were marked as weak in LeafSpy, and generally after a full charge my variance is about 13mV, so it seems like the pack is getting well balanced. It's just that battery isn't holding the capacity it should for a brand new car. I'm basically paying for a 30kwh car and getting a 24kwh car.

 

[johnlocke]

Naturally, the dealer didn't find anything wrong. The health of the battery, as far as their basic tests go, is fine. I was given the usual speech about range being dependent on factors such as weather, driving style, etc.

I called the Nissan EV service line while at the dealership and opened a case with them. The person I spoke with said what I am describing from LeafSpy would indicate a battery in degradation, which shouldn't be happening with such a new car. They will be contacting the Service Manager separately, as he was unavailable at the time, to discuss further.

I tested another 30kwh Leaf on the lot before leaving, and saw even better stats than the one I saw this morning. Not that it matters much, as my Leaf had great stats when I picked it up and only after its first 100% charge did the stats start falling.

On a full charge to lights off on the dash, which the car stops at 97.7% SOC according to LeafSpy, I have 312 Gids and 24.1kwh usable. Can anyone else with a 30kwh Leaf please post their stats? I want to know what's going on with my battery.

OK, as of this morning I'm at 16498 miles 71.34AH SOH=89% Hx=83.81% 325 GID's at full charge, 16mv differential. I think that you may be right in that there's problem with the battery chemistry. I'm down by 10% compared to new in only 10 months. I'll be going in for the annual battery check in a couple of months and I'll see what the dealer has to say.

 

[armelwani]

I'm very interested to hear what they tell you. Losing 10% SOH in 10 months is ridiculous. You have 15,000 more miles on the clock than I do, and still getting 13 more GIDs on a full charge than I do.

What range is your GOM telling you after a full charge? Mine says about 107 miles. Real world I'm getting about 92, with very conservative driving and averaging 4.2 to 4.3 kw/mile. Are you comfortably getting over 100 miles of real world driving?

 

[Valdemar]

Cheer up, the holy grail of Leaf ownership is getting a new battery under warranty. Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[johnlocke]

I'm very interested to hear what they tell you. Losing 10% SOH in 10 months is ridiculous. You have 15,000 more miles on the clock than I do, and still getting 13 more GIDs on a full charge than I do.

What range is your GOM telling you after a full charge? Mine says about 107 miles. Real world I'm getting about 92, with very conservative driving and averaging 4.2 to 4.3 kw/mile. Are you comfortably getting over 100 miles of real world driving?

I'm getting around 90-95 mi range but my situation is unusual since I have a 2000 ft elevation change each way on my commute. I average 3.8 mi/KWH. The GOM usually reads 87-89 mi after a charge but when I start out going downhill it jumps to 120+ mi. The usable range is more like 75-80 til LBW. A typical day is 55-60 mi and about 40% charge left when I get home. Long days are more like 70-75 mi and 20% left. I have intentionally driven it to as low as 3% just to test it out. But given that the nearest level 2 charger is 15 mi from the house and I live in the back of a mountain valley, I try not to get below 20% Stuck on a mountain road without cell service isn't my idea of fun.

 

[armelwani]

Cheer up, the holy grail of Leaf ownership is getting a new battery under warranty. Sounds like you're on the right track.

Chances are high I would qualify for a new battery under warranty, but as there is so little info right now on the 30kwh batteries we don't know how the capacity bars drop based on the LeafSpy readings. For example, if my car is really already at SOH%=85, I would expect the first bar to fall off any day now. It would be really interesting if it did.

Also, I paid for a 30kwh car, not a 24kwh car. If I wanted the 24kwh battery, I could have saved myself $6k.

 

[armelwani]

I'm getting around 90-95 mi range but my situation is unusual since I have a 2000 ft elevation change each way on my commute. I average 3.8 mi/KWH. The GOM usually reads 87-89 mi after a charge but when I start out going downhill it jumps to 120+ mi. The usable range is more like 75-80 til LBW. A typical day is 55-60 mi and about 40% charge left when I get home. Long days are more like 70-75 mi and 20% left. I have intentionally driven it to as low as 3% just to test it out. But given that the nearest level 2 charger is 15 mi from the house and I live in the back of a mountain valley, I try not to get below 20% Stuck on a mountain road without cell service isn't my idea of fun.

I've never seen more than 111miles on the GOM, and that was after a QC followed by L2 to balance the cells. Typically 103-107 on the GOM after a full L2 charge. It eventually evens out to 1mile=1% on the dash SOC reading, but then at the bottom end for LBW and VLBW I can only squeeze out about 5 miles.