2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

[Newbie]

Yes, but the US is NOT the Leaf's main market. Not by a long shot. I was talking internationally.

That's because Tesla just started selling 3 outside US.

No, it is because the Leaf fits the desires of the Japanese and European markets much better. It is a small hatchback. And the shorter range is much more acceptable there than in the US. Sure, the Model 3 will compete strongly with the leaf in those markets, but the Model 3 has no bearing on which markets are better fit for the Leaf.

It seems like many located in the U.S., cannot imagine that f.e. in Europe, things are different, and hatchbacks are by far the most popular bodystyle, while sedans have an image that you are a "square" if you drive a sedan. With the Tesla Model 3 being a sedan, of course there might still be some who just want to drive electric and do not mind the unpleasant bodystyle, still if people have a choice, in Europe they'd probably prefer a hatchback, a station wagon or an SUV (which basically has a shape of a larger hatchback).

If you look at the list of best selling vehicles, very few sedans can be found among them:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2018s-most-popular-cars-europe-market-segment

In Europe, most vehicles on the market are not even available in a sedan bodystyle. And for the ones that are, like VW Passat, Mercedes E-Class/S-Class etc, the station wagon body style outsells the sedan version by far. F.e. in Germany, 94.5% of Passats sold are station wagons, and 5.5% sedans.

In the view of most Europeans, sedans are just not very practical vehicles. They don't offer a lot of cargo space, which a hatchback or a station wagon of the same length would offer.

 

[Newbie]

Can't remember if anyone has posted the U.S. price, so GCC:

Longer-range Nissan LEAF PLUS starts at $36,550 in US with up to 226 miles of range

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/20190304-leaf.html

$37,445 incl dest. That seems a tough sell against a Model 3 SR, at least for the next four months. Is a savings of a ~ $2.5k enough? From July 1st on the numbers look better. OTOH, we're still waiting on Niro EV pricing.

The base 62kWh Leaf will be by far cheaper than the "$35,000 Model 3". Nissan heavily discounts their Leafs. F.e. for the current 40kWh Leaf S, in many states, Nissan is providing $11,675 in Lease Cash, and $1,000 in NMAC Captive Cash. Plus, there is another $1,000 discount for VPP. Lease rates for a base 62kWh Leaf will be substantially cheaper than Model 3 leases. In addition, usually Nissan dealers often provide $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 or more as an additional discount in the form of a dealer contribution. How can one get a dealer contribution for a Model 3? Oh, right, there are no dealerships, and thus there is no dealer contribution.

For purchases, the difference in federal tax credit only comes on top of everything else.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not kW.

Please see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=540845#p540845.

 

[cwerdna]

I just received an email from Nissan announcing the e-Plus. Quick - what is wrong with this picture?
...
If Nissan gets something as basic as this wrong, how does that inspire confidence in their engineering? SMH

Sigh... I also received that marketing email 17 minutes ago. :roll:

What's more silly is that the subject line of my email is "(has my name here), the 2019 Nissan LEAF PLUS is now available for sale". Further down it says "The 2019 Nissan LEAF® PLUS* has finally arrived." But at the bottom it says

* The 2019 Nissan LEAF PLUS is not yet available for purchase. Expected availability spring 2019. Pre-production model shown. Actual production model may vary.

Seriously? Besides the kW and kWh mixup, they were this sloppy?

At https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf/build-price.html#configure/ApbpND5g/version, they also got a case where they got the units wrong in one place.

See https://imgur.com/a/pkasKvk. Really? Again?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think we now know the answer to the question I implied a few posts ago: Stupid and untrained.

 

[SageBrush]

F.e.

Do you want to write the abbreviation of "for example" ?

It is E.g.

 

[igranderojo]

Below is some of my research on buying a new EV to replace 2013 Leaf purchased used.

On youtube and this forum, looking back at comments just before/after the new pricing for e-Plus and Model 3 were announced, there are opinions based on emotion, and many based on evidence. I try to use facts and evidence to make my decisions. Not easy to do when buying a car, and I've bought a few over the past 40 years that were emotional decisions.

I've been driving EVs on and off for 20 years. Drove a Sparrow owned by company where I worked.

First, I calculated price divided by range. For me, this is a value measurement that I can use to compare across all EVs. As the price drops and the range increases, the ratio goes down. Now moving down below $160 per mile of range.

I bought my 2013 Leaf used, coming off a lease, under 10K miles and the ratio was about $200/mile range.
My spread sheet now has 15 EVs with the prices updated, subtracting available US Federal Tax credit amount (less for model 3). Range is the EPA range.

For my wife and I, the new Model 3 220 mile range, is not an option:
1. Sedan - we buy hatchbacks, SUVs.
2. Limited locations for service.
3. After the tax credits and state rebate, price is higher than Leaf e-Plus SL.
4. Sedan has longer overall length than alternatives like Leaf, Kona and others.

The Leaf e-Plus SL trim appears to be a good option:
1. Hatchback style we like and use. SL has power driver's seat (easy on old hands).
2. Many local Nissan dealers located in western states and Canada where we are likely to drive.
3. We use Fed Tax credit and get state rebate, to drop price by $10k.
4. Nissan innovation of onboard technology to improve user experience and improve ease of use.
5. Nissan offers over-the-air updates to software instead of Leaf requiring USB or dealer visit.
6. Even with 226 mile range, that is plenty for our type of suburban/urban/go to beach driving.
7. For 2013 leaf, I invested (sunk cost) in 50 amp/240volt wiring and have EVSE in my garage.
8. Onboard directions to nearest charging station instead of using app on my phone.
9. Buy renewable energy from local utility company at a discount.

 

[jdcbomb]

I think your analysis makes sense in deciding between the LEAF and M3.

Did you factor in that the 40 kWh version might potentially be worth the savings of $6,000 / $7000?

Indeed it won't have OTA, but I think Nissan generally would not use this feature as frequently as Tesla. I base this on how Nissan has developed / improved their vehicles (only doing critical updates that are safety related) versus Tesla that likes to come out with a new update every few weeks (which almost indicates that it uses customers for beta testing).

 

[GRA]

<snip>

Indeed it won't have OTA, but I think Nissan generally would not use this feature as frequently as Tesla. I base this on how Nissan has developed / improved their vehicles (only doing critical updates that are safety related) versus Tesla that likes to come out with a new update every few weeks (which almost indicates that it uses customers for beta testing).

There's no "almost" about it.

 

[webeleafowners]

We love the Tesla model 3 and actually would prefer to buy it when we trade in Angelas smart ED this fall or early next year. But more than likely we'll get another Leaf, this time the Eplus SL. This is why.

We live in BC. Below is a Plugsshare representation of Super Chargers. We think the Supercharger network is great and its one of the reasons we want to get a model 3. But the model 3, unlike the model S or the Model X is not Chademo compatible so this is what you get. A narrow strip from Victoria to Calgary. No chance of touring all over this amazing province. Yeh.

The next picture is the Chademo/CCS network that the government is rolling out. It is actually missing about 35 locations that although have been announced and funded are not yet on the map. So just imagine this with at aboutt 35 more dots. Some are Petro Canada, some are Electrify Canada and most are government. And they are usually pretty quick putting them in once they are on the map. And thats just phase two. Once it is done in 2020 phase three is already on the books covering the north interior routes to the coast etc.

If you have a Leaf e plus or a bolt or a Kia or an Ipace or Model S tesla or Model X tesla you'll be able to tour the whole province. With a model 3 Tesla, unless its on the end of a rope the province is pretty much out of bounds except for a little strip between Victoria and Calgary.

We are actually quite impressed with the new Leaf and the eplus should be even better but we lean towards the model 3 for a few reasons. However, a touring sedan it is not....at least not in BC.

Cmon Elon. Wheres that Chademo adapter.

 

[Kieran973]

You can now Build & Price the Leaf Plus trims on the Nissan USA website:

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf/build-price.html#configure/

The All-Weather Package on the S Plus is $450, while on the SV Plus it's $900. So the SV Plus with the All-Weather Package costs about $2500 more than the S Plus with the All-Weather Package.

Question: if you didn't want to pay that $2500 premium, but you did want the ride and handling of 17" wheels, could you just buy the S Plus, then take the wheels off and buy aftermarket OEM SV wheels?

Like for example, 4 of these would only cost $619:
https://www.hubcaphaven.com/p/25229/aly62781-nissan-leaf-wheel-charcoal-machined-403005sh3e.html

You'd have to buy new 17 inch tires, so all together the wheel/tire replacement would probably set you back a grand, but if it saves you $1500 total? Besides larger wheels, I don't see much else that the SV Plus has to offer vs the S Plus - not to mention that you'd be taking a range hit of 11 miles EPA....

 

[LeftieBiker]

The SV Plus will have the heatpump heating system included with the all weather package. The S will not, assuming they follow current option practice.

 

[cwerdna]

The SV Plus will have the heatpump heating system included with the all weather package. The S will not, assuming they follow current option practice.

Judging by https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf/build-price.html#configure, you are correct. S Plus doesn't have a package that adds a hybrid heater.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The SV Plus will have the heatpump heating system included with the all weather package. The S will not, assuming they follow current option practice.

Judging by https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf/build-price.html#configure, you are correct. S Plus doesn't have a package that adds a hybrid heater.

And just to warn prospective ePlus buyers and lessees - especially those doing a pre-order - if you want a heatpump system in an SV, you MUST order the all weather package. Otherwise you don't even get heated seats and wheel, much less a heat pump.

 

[Anonymous]

Besides larger wheels, I don't see much else that the SV Plus has to offer vs the S Plus - not to mention that you'd be taking a range hit of 11 miles EPA....

The SV has the available tech package.

For the 11 miles of range drop for the SV, what else could contribute besides the tires, if no packages are added?

 

[SageBrush]

Nasty pricing. My quick review appears to show that Nissan has placed pretty vanilla features like charging and safety into an a la carte menu
This
https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf/build-price.html#summary/ApcpMD5CMn7Q4HhJEE
is $44.5k

That 'fry an egg on your battery' option is really expensive

 

[WetEV]

That 'fry an egg on your battery' option is really expensive

Yea, Tesla cars are expensive.

 

[leaf16]

Anyone getting a "sizeable" discount off the MSRP on the 2019 e-Plus quotes ?

I am buying a SL Plus in 2-Tone Pearl White /Black (+$695) and Factory Installed Accessories (+$640)
and with the $895 Destination --- the Total MSRP is $44,780.

Here in the South Dakota and Nebraska area, the best I am getting is about $1,000 off this MRSP
by the dealer and any incentives that Nissan has at time of delivery.

Delivery estimated end of March / beginning of April.

 

[webeleafowners]

Anyone getting a "sizeable" discount off the MSRP on the 2019 e-Plus quotes ?

I am buying a SL Plus in 2-Tone Pearl White /Black (+$695) and Factory Installed Accessories (+$640)
and with the $895 Destination --- the Total MSRP is $44,780.

Here in the South Dakota and Nebraska area, the best I am getting is about $1,000 off this MRSP
by the dealer and any incentives that Nissan has at time of delivery.




Delivery estimated end of March / beginning of April.

Hi and thanks for posting. Could you

1. Tell me what “factory options” you ordered (I thought the SL didn’t have any orderable options)

2. Take a few pictures of the two tone when you get it. Don’t think I have seen a representation of that on the web. Sounds nice.

 

[leaf16]

Yep, you can add the Accessories from the Build Page --- they are way over priced
but it is handy to already have them installed when delivered.

SPLASH GUARDS $200
CHROME REAR BUMPER PROTECTOR $120
CARPETED CARGO AND FLOOR MATS $190
DOOR KICK PLATES (2-PIECE SET) $130

The 2-Tone Pearl White Tricoat / Super Black is shown on their web page.
Even has a pan feature to see all sides / angles.