B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY

[kubel]

7) Losers who bought and didn't opt out will drive the cars until they no longer can and then donate them to charity

I think there will eventually be an announced battery price and I doubt it will be a for-profit item for Nissan. Maybe for the dealers, but I think Nissan will absorb some cost to make it a fair deal for buyers. This could be the one thing that would redeem Nissan in the eyes of current LEAF owners.

...or then again they might totally blow it.

 

[Valdemar]

That benefit must clearly be some other capacity warranty because I received a capacity warranty many months before this settlement letter.

Is this for real? How many capacity warranties do you think Nissan has issued? I didn't opt out, does it mean I have 2 warranties now?

Well I am not sure since I only got the non settlement warranty. Did you ever get a letter saying "here is your settlement warranty" after the settlement was agreed to? Not sure how to tell the difference between the two but maybe the sticker they mail for your manual is a different color?

Good luck if this is your strategy for getting a warranty replacement after opting out.

7) Losers who bought and didn't opt out will drive the cars until they no longer can and then donate them to charity

I think there will eventually be an announced battery price and I doubt it will be a for-profit item for Nissan. Maybe for the dealers, but I think Nissan will absorb some cost to make it a fair deal for buyers. This could be the one thing that would redeem Nissan in the eyes of current LEAF owners.

...or then again they might totally blow it.

I'm going to make a prediction and say that regardless of how "nice" Nissan is willing to play this time the replacement price will be too high for most practical purposes.

 

[QueenBee]

Well I am not sure since I only got the non settlement warranty. Did you ever get a letter saying "here is your settlement warranty" after the settlement was agreed to? Not sure how to tell the difference between the two but maybe the sticker they mail for your manual is a different color?

Good luck if this is your strategy for getting a warranty replacement after opting out.

You haven't been following a long. It's be pretty difficult to actually use the capacity warranty in the Pacific Northwest. I'm 3/5ths of the way through the warranty but have more than half way to go before qualifying.

I opted out knowing the risk of this but thought that a settlement for something Nissan had already given us was not a legitimate settlement. I also was doing what little I could do for my fellow LEAFers in hot climates.

 

[TimLee]

... Did you ever get a letter saying "here is your settlement warranty" after the settlement was agreed to? ...

The settlement is not final. The court sent it to mediation for the plaintiffs, the objector(s), and Nissan to discuss alternatives to the settlement hoping they can come to an agreement.
Like most mediation it is done in private between the parties.
99.99% of the class have no idea what is occurring in the mediation.
Only the original two plaintiffs, the small # of objectors, and Nissan have any idea where it stands.
The judge mediator probably set rules preventing them from disclosing anything.
I have no idea the time frame for the mediation.
Could be six months or six years.

 

[mwalsh]

....Could be six months or six years.

Which brings me back to the notion that there is no warranty tied to litigation, since there is no settlement yet that includes one. And how could we be told about a litigation-based warranty 7-8 months before there was even a judgement? :?

 

[keydiver]

Is this for real? How many capacity warranties do you think Nissan has issued? I didn't opt out, does it mean I have 2 warranties now?

No, you get the SAME warranty. That is how I understood it, because that is how they worded it:

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. I took that as: with this settlement you will get the same exact warranty that Nissan just gave you. So, I figured that I didn't need to sue, or be part of the class action. Nothing in their letter ever stated that staying in the suit was necessary to keep the NEW Nissan EV Warranty, or that opting out of the suit meant you were rejecting the New Nissan EV Warranty.
Also, nothing in the Nissan letter tied it in any way to litigation or a class action suit, so it certainly doesn't say that you will lose the new warranty if you opt out of the lawsuit. Its like Nissan deliberately intended NOT to tie the warranty to the suit, but now they are. :x

 

[epirali]

7) Losers who bought and didn't opt out will drive the cars until they no longer can and then donate them to charity

Isn't this pretty much every car ever made? All warranties run out at some point.

 

[TomT]

I don't believe that the objectors have any idea either...

Only the original two plaintiffs, the small # of objectors, and Nissan have any idea where it stands.

 

[Valdemar]

7) Losers who bought and didn't opt out will drive the cars until they no longer can and then donate them to charity

Isn't this pretty much every car ever made? All warranties run out at some point.

The difference is that it will be impossible to sell a 7-8 year old Leaf. But who knows, if gas price is high enough battery replacement out of pocket may make more sense then helping with demand for old Leafs.

 

[TimLee]

Its like Nissan deliberately intended NOT to tie the warranty to the suit, but now they are. :x

That is the real problem.
Nissan wanted to spin for good PR and send everyone a positive message that they were graciously extending the new 2013 capacity warranty to everyone with 2011 and 2012 LEAFs. They actually got some positive results from that.
But they were hiding the truth that legally they were only doing that based on the lawsuit.
They should go back to their original positive intent and withdraw B1033.
Or at least advise people that Opted Out that they will provide whatever the final settlement benefits are with the appropriate legal waiver.
Unfortunately they will never be able to make people forget how disingenuous they have been throughout the four year long LEAF saga.
As a proud Tennessean a state with many wonderful people and companies I am truly ashamed of Nissan.

 

[TomT]

+1

Unfortunately they will never be able to make people forget how disingenuous they have been throughout the four year long LEAF saga.
As a proud Tennessean, a state with many wonderful people and companies, I am truly ashamed of Nissan.

 

[Weatherman]

Unfortunately they will never be able to make people forget how disingenuous they have been throughout the four year long LEAF saga.
As a proud Tennessean a state with many wonderful people and companies I am truly ashamed of Nissan.

It's pretty clear from their actions that, as long as they continue to set sales records, they...

really. genuinely. do. not. care.

 

[mynameisjim]

Lots of arguing back and forth. Add me to this list of early adopters that will never own another Nissan product.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It would have been nice if the settlement document wording specified "If and only if you are a settlement class member..."

 

[edatoakrun]

My prediction:

1) B0133 will stick with the car *forever*.
2) B0133 owners will not be able to sue for Nissan revoking the battery capacity warranty, because it was never promised at the time of sale. You might be able to prove the warranty was separate from the settlement, but that does nothing to prove you are entitled to the warranty, since it came after purchase- best case scenario it was a gesture of good will by Nissan, worst case scenario, it was an outcome of a settlement which you opted out of.
3) B0133 owners will sue for battery degradation, as they were entitled to do by opting out.
4) Nissan will offer to settle by buying back the cars.
5) B0133 cars will be rounded up and crushed...

So, you expect Nissan wants to incur the far higher costs (not to mention the publicity arising out of multiple lawsuits) of settling the few dozen (or more?) claims of the opt-out 2011-12 owners who actually lose four capacity bars before they reach 60 months/60 k miles, by buying back and destroying their LEAFs, rather than just honoring the warranty at very little cost by replacing their eight-capacity-bar-batteries with nine-capacity-bar-or-better used batteries?

Well, I suppose it is possible that the Nissan will display psychotic behavior in this case, rather than the sociopathic behavior more typical of corporations...

 

[epirali]

My prediction:

1) B0133 will stick with the car *forever*.
2) B0133 owners will not be able to sue for Nissan revoking the battery capacity warranty, because it was never promised at the time of sale. You might be able to prove the warranty was separate from the settlement, but that does nothing to prove you are entitled to the warranty, since it came after purchase- best case scenario it was a gesture of good will by Nissan, worst case scenario, it was an outcome of a settlement which you opted out of.
3) B0133 owners will sue for battery degradation, as they were entitled to do by opting out.
4) Nissan will offer to settle by buying back the cars.
5) B0133 cars will be rounded up and crushed...

So, you expect Nissan wants to incur the far higher costs (not to mention the publicity arising out of multiple lawsuits) of settling the few dozen (or more?) claims of the opt-out 2011-12 owners who actually lose four capacity bars before they reach 60 months/60 k miles, by buying back and destroying their LEAFs, rather than just honoring the warranty at very little cost by replacing their eight-capacity-bar-batteries with nine-capacity-bar-or-better used batteries?

Well, I suppose it is possible that the Nissan will display psychotic behavior in this case, rather than the sociopathic behavior more typical of corporations...

I understand how this is aggravating considering the confusing circumstances. But I think it is a little unfair to say that. Nissan spent (and will spend) a great deal of money on legal and court costs and has a settlement (good or bad I leave alone). It is offered and the recipient rejects it. Why would it then turn around and extend the coverage WHEN they are still under the threat of additional costs and lawsuits because that person rejected the settlement?

The settlement has two parties: it gives the owner a coverage they didn't have, and it gives Nissan relief from being sued. You want to have one half of the deal?

 

[JeremyW]

As some of you may know, I leased my vehicle. I will call the Nissan EV line today to verify if B0133 sticks with the car after I return it at the end of my lease.

 

[edatoakrun]

...The settlement has two parties: it gives the owner a coverage they didn't have, and it gives Nissan relief from being sued. You want to have one half of the deal?

I believe you have that wrong.

As I posted last night (reposted below) It sure looked to me, and still does, that all 2011-12 owners had the capacity warranty prior to the settlement announcement.

The question then, is whether opting out of the subsequent settlement relieves Nissan of it's pre-existing warranty commitments.

I cannot imagine why Nissan would want to pursue that legal argument, since as I posted above, it would appear to provides Nissan with no real benefits.

And I also cannot imagine why Nissan never stated prior to the opt-out deadline (AFAIK) in any of it's public comments on the warranty or subsequent settlement, that the warranty would be cancelled by opting-out, if that was in fact Nissans understanding and intent when committing itself to the capacity warranty.

All 2011-12 LEAF owners received the capacity warranty when Nissan announced:

BBrockman

Post subject: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:54 pm...

Hi everyone:

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Brian Brockman, and I am a senior manager in corporate communications at Nissan, based at our Americas HQ in Franklin, Tenn. While LEAF is fairly new to my list of official job responsibilities, I've been engaged in the program for some time, serving as our Midwest communications manager based in Michigan since 2007.

So I don't stretch this post too long, I'll get to the business of the day. Back in December, Jeff posted a message from Andy Palmer (viewtopic.php?p=253595) outlining the expanded warranty protection against capacity loss in the LEAF's lithium-ion battery. In that message, they said that the warranty would go into effect this Spring for 2011 and 2012 LEAF owners. Today, I want to give you an update on that roll-out.

If you're a 2011 or 2012 LEAF owner, you'll receive a letter in the mail in the coming week or so confirming the expanded warranty coverage for your LEAF, as well as details on a software update available through your Nissan LEAF dealer for your battery capacity meter and on-board charger. I've pasted the text of that letter below for you to check out. As you are some of our most engaged owners, we wanted to give you a heads-up on this development.

(Note: For 2013 LEAF owners, this coverage was part of your battery warranty at purchase, and is outlined in your warranty information booklet.)

Thank you for your time, and for your continued feedback. It's exciting to see so many enthusiastic and engaged LEAF owners. I look forward to more conversations with you in the future.

Brian

--


Dear Nissan LEAF Owner:

Nissan values the feedback that we receive from our owners, and we try to use your comments to improve our products. With the goal to provide the highest level of customer satisfaction, Nissan is now offering two ongoing improvements for your Nissan LEAF.

First, Nissan is providing a new software enhancement for model year 2011-2012 LEAF vehicles, updating them with the software currently used in production for 2013 model year LEAF vehicles. The software enhancement is aimed at improving the accuracy of the battery capacity level gauge and providing greater compatibility with an expanded range of EV charging equipment.

Second, Nissan is now implementing expanded coverage under its New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, to protect against capacity loss in your LEAF’s lithium-ion battery, as previously announced by Nissan in December 2012.

SOFTWARE ENHANCEMENT

The 2013 LEAF features many improvements, including updated software that improves the performance of the battery capacity level gauge (outlined below) to more accurately reflect actual battery capacity. This update does not change the amount of capacity represented by the each of the bars in the meter.

In addition, the vehicle’s on-board charger software has been enhanced to improve compatibility with a broader range of EV charging equipment. By updating the software for 2011 and 2012 vehicles, Nissan is providing customers with the benefits of these ongoing improvements enjoyed by owners of the 2013 LEAF.

WHAT NISSAN WILL DO

To ensure your continued satisfaction and confidence in your car, your EV Certified Nissan dealer will update the software as described above at no cost to you for parts and labor.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO

Contact your EV Certified Nissan dealer at your earliest convenience in order to arrange your appointment. This service is free of charge and the work should take less than 2 hours to complete. To ensure the greatest convenience to you, it is important that you have an appointment before bringing your vehicle to the dealer for this service. Please bring this notice with you to your service appointment. Detailed instructions have been sent to your EV Certified Nissan dealer.

EXPANDED WARRANTY COVERAGE

In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original battery pack will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return the battery to an “as new” condition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.

Please apply the label at the bottom of this letter to your Warranty Information Booklet. If your vehicle’s battery capacity level is currently at or above nine (9) bars, no further action is required.

If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty.

Please note that replacement lithium-ion batteries may require special ordering which may delay the actual repair by several weeks. Your patience in these circumstances is appreciated.

If you have any questions about this announcement, you may contact the Nissan LEAF Call Center at 877-N0-GAS-EV (877-664-2738), or by writing us at Nissan North America, Inc., P.O. Box 685003, Franklin, TN 37068-5003.

Thank you for providing us an opportunity to ensure your satisfaction. We hope you continue to enjoy smooth, zero emissions driving in your Nissan LEAF!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No mention above of any present or future conditions or actions required by LEAF owners to continue to receive the capacity warranty, beyond those already required to maintain the pre-existing battery warranty, and no mention of the class action settlement at all.

So, IMO, getting "B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY" due to opting out of the settlement is of questionable legality and more importantly, such a PR FUBAR, it will probably (eventually) be announced to have been just another Nissan internal miscommunication.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

As some of you may know, I leased my vehicle. I will call the Nissan EV line today to verify if B0133 sticks with the car after I return it at the end of my lease.

It would also be interesting to know too if it sticks with the car if you were to buy it out. Technically leased cars are owned by NMAC, so buying out the lease is a change in ownership.

 

[leafkabob]

I was talking about the letter we got from Nissan regarding the battery warranty.

I believe this is the letter you speak of:

I done't think that anyone who received this letter and warranty sticker needs to worry about whether they opted out or not. This letter doesn't connect the warranty to the settlement and clearly says that 2011 and 2012 owners will get an expanded warranty. I don't think Nissan is going to win against someone who received this letter and warranty sticker but also opted out of the class action.