B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY

[QueenBee]

Kozinski's correctly describes the capacity warranty as 'hockum' but that does not negate the fact that the capacity warranty is either solely at Nissan's discretion or due to the settlement. I am not a lawyer, but even I understand that promises are only enforceable with Offer * Acceptance * Consideration * Intent. If any of O.A.C.I are zero, then a valid contract does not exist. both the Consideration (exchange of money) and the Intent (settlement or not) are in question.

No one exchanged money for the retrospective capacity warranty, so thats sufficient to allow Nissan to withdraw it selectively if desired.
Nissan may also argue that its intent was due to settlement negotiations, and that for global consistency it then used the settlement as guidance for global policy.

Sure, Nissan selectively withdrawing the warranty opens it up for further lawsuit, but from a lawyer's perspective, that is the sole intent of opting out anyway.

Did anyone really think that Nissan would not link the warranty to the settlement?

I'm not an attorney neither but my partner is one

I think Nissan had no intention of linking the warranty to the settlement. If they did then why not say that upfront? Why not wait until the settlement is agreed and approved? I forget how the FAQ which answers why is worded but why not come out and say it? I think their intent was to offer the warranty regardless of the settlement as that's what they did and that's what they said they were doing. This buys them a lot more good will and builds their reputation a lot more than being "forced" to as a result of the class action.

Consideration doesn't have to be money so the argument that there was no consideration is not as strong as you make it. Good will seems to be legitimate consideration.

Thanks for taking the time to actually understand the issues imstead of just spewing BS.

 

[oakwcj]

Here is the very brief brief that Kozinski filed about Nissan's legal authority to selectively withdraw a previously issued unconditional warranty extension:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/41hs9sen72aop8y/Kozinski Supplemental.pdf

As others have noted, Nissan, as a matter of global policy, decided to add a battery capacity warranty for 2011-2012 LEAFs. It had plenty of PR and consumer satisfaction reasons to do this. It had nothing to do with the lawsuit. If it had, the warranty would not be in effect now, because the litigation is still active.

 

[palmermd]

well, the above two posts seem to directly contradict the original post and topic of this thread. Those who opted out of the class action suit settlement are now branded as not having the battery capacity warranty.

 

[mwalsh]

I'm not an attorney neither but my partner is one

Consideration doesn't have to be money so the argument that there was no consideration is not as strong as you make it. Good will seems to be legitimate consideration.

Thanks for taking the time to actually understand the issues imstead of just spewing BS.

I thought that the good will might be enough to satisfy consideration, but I'm not a lawyer either. Hence suggesting the update requirement as being the legal consideration in my viewpoint. But now that I hear you second it, then I'm almost certain that reciprocal goodwill is also sufficient.

Step-grandson is the lawyer in our family, with his partner also being a lawyer (and the one who is going to specialize in class-action work at her new firm).

 

[mwalsh]

well, the above two posts seem to directly contradict the original post and topic of this thread. Those who opted out of the class action suit settlement are now branded as not having the battery capacity warranty.

Indeed. But that doesn't mean it's right; or moral; or will stand legally.

 

[DaveEV]

I think the thing that angers me the most is that if you have no warranty (by opting out or by mileage), there's no way for you to get a new pack. Your only option is the junkyard or the car crusher. They won't sell a pack, they won't rent a pack. It's a wear part but once it's worn out the car is done. :shock:

Hybrid Auto Center in Vegas can get you packs (that they claim are new) for about $5k. Add labor to install. Anyone call them to see how much to put a fresh pack into their LEAF?

Much more likely later, much later... That story is already over a year old with nothing to show for it...

Nissan just posted on Facebook that an announcement on the topic was coming soon.

 

[edatoakrun]

I think the thing that angers me the most is that if you have no warranty (by opting out or by mileage), there's no way for you to get a new pack. Your only option is the junkyard or the car crusher. They won't sell a pack, they won't rent a pack. It's a wear part but once it's worn out the car is done. :shock:

Very unlikely, IMO. I'm not a lawyer, but I expect multiple State and Federal laws make this position untenable.

Nissan would probably sell a replacement pack to the first LEAF owner who demands one, and threatens legal measures to back up the demand, but it will probably announce the price previous to this happening, for PR reasons.

AFAIK, Nissan has either bought back the LEAF or given a new battery to every LEAF owner with four bars of capacity loss (whatever the real capacity loss was).

So Nissan has not had to report the replacement pack price, which it clearly wants to delay revealing, for it's own reasons.

 

[keydiver]

Just tried EV customer service chat which has figured things out now:

"Alexander: There are two instances in which your warranty would be void.
Alexander: 1. You didn't have your battery usage reports done within a sufficient amount of time from when they were due and 2. If you opted out from the class action lawsuit of the warranty.

I finally got my call back from Nissan, and that was EXACTLY how mine went. :roll: I don't know what game Nissan's lawyers are playing, and its really pissing me off. :x

 

[JeremyW]

Hybrid Auto Center in Vegas can get you packs (that they claim are new) for about $5k

That would be the "junkyard" option I mentioned.

Nissan would probably sell a replacement pack to the first LEAF owner who demands one, and threatens legal measures to back up the demand, but it will probably announce the price previous to this happening, for PR reasons.

I'm wondering what those legal measures are. I can't sue them to make them do something, can I? :roll: I'd rather they just end my lease early. Sue for the remaining payments of my lease?

 

[Stoaty]

insidevs now has an article about this slimy tactic:

http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-battery-capacity-opt-warranty-denial/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[keydiver]

insidevs now has an article about this slimy tactic:

http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-battery-capacity-opt-warranty-denial/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice to see some reporting of this mess, but the author seems to think that Nissan explained very well that opting out of the settlement would void the warranty. IMHO, Nissan did everything possible to NOT publicly acknowledge the warranty was tied to litigation. They left it up to Capstone's lawyers to write the letter in August/September 2013, which probably allows them to escape any blame for its "bad verbiage".
I tried to escalate my complaint with the Nissan EV Support people, but Chelsea's boss couldn't tell me any more than she had. Although he assured me that they aren't reading from a script, everything she read to me, and he repeated, is exactly the same as Queenbee's experience. When I asked how I could reach someone who might be sympathetic, and be able to make a rational, clear-headed decision, or at least attempt to help me resolve this, his only suggestion was to get out my warranty booklet and see what protections I might have under Florida law.

 

[mwalsh]

^ I really wouldn't freak out any more than we already have until the first "black-listed" owner goes/attempts to make a claim under warranty. Only then will we see how this goes down. Frankly, I'm rather hoping it'll be me.

 

[pchilds]

^ I really wouldn't freak out any more than we already have until the first "black-listed" owner goes attempts to make a claim under warranty. Only then will be see how this goes down. Frankly, I'm rather hoping it'll be me.

Agreed, we really don't have a claim against Nissan until they refuse to replace the battery under warranty.

 

[mwalsh]

An interesting development. Somebody just called my home, saying that "a package of information related to my LEAF" will be coming out to me. My wife was a bit fuzzy on the details in her missive (she generally is, bless her), but she says that she took a phone number for young lady rather than giving her my cell number. I asked her if it sounded as if she was from a law firm rather than Nissan and the reply was "maybe".

I'm intrigued, but not enough to drop what I'm doing and call my wife for the number, so I can see what it's all about. Instead, I'm simply going to wait for this "information" and see what it has to say. Anyone had anything similar happen today?

 

[TomT]

Dead quiet here...

I'm intrigued, but not enough to drop what I'm doing and call my wife for the number, so I can see what it's all about. Instead, I'm simply going to wait for this "information" and see what it has to say. Anyone had anything similar happen today?

 

[mwalsh]

It does turn out to be someone from Nissan trying to reach me. I guess we'll find out why in a few days.

 

[toasty]

It does turn out to be someone from Nissan trying to reach me. I guess we'll find out why in a few days.

any update?

 

[mwalsh]

any update?

She's called a couple of times this week, but I haven't returned the call yet. I want to see what I'm supposed to be receiving by mail first. If I don't get anything on Monday, then I'll give her a call and see what's up.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Mr Brockman, since this thread still seems to have your ear can you help clear up the following:
If one opted out of the class action settlement does that only void their capacity warranty on their current LEAF or is that person not eligible for battery capacity warranties on LEAFs they lease or buy in the future as well? Is there an option to opt back in or am I barred for life?

Sorry. I'm not in the best position to answer that, as it's a legal matter and I'm no lawyer. However, I'll consult with our folks to try to get a clear answer or statement on that topic. It might be best for me to post back in the thread about the topic rather than here.

Awaiting your reply. Thanks for your help.

 

[mwalsh]

any update?

It turns out that it was just someone from the call center, telling me that Nissan is "looking into it", and that I'll "receive a letter" when they have more to say.