Best way to charge an older (2013) Leaf with 4 battery bars left

[Klausstein]

My 2013's battery is pushing end of life. It only has 4 bars and keeps truckin' along. I will replace the battery, probably with a 40KW, when it is so far gone I can't get to work and back. We have a Juicebox wall charger for our 2020 SV+. What is the best way to charge to elongate the battery life? The Juicebox wall charger with 240v or the 120v one that came with the leaf? I don't mind using 120v because it really doesn't take that long to charge a 4 bar battery, but if the 240v is the same or better for the battery I'll start using that.

Thanks in advance. This forum has been very helpful for me.

 

[nlspace]

The slower is better--less thermal stress on the cells.

 

[MikeinPA]

Also, how is the cell balance at low SOC? Is this an early 2013, or built after ~May 2013 with the US made battery?

 

[Klausstein]

Also, how is the cell balance at low SOC? Is this an early 2013, or built after ~May 2013 with the US made battery?

Sorry for the lat response. The car was manufactured 3/13. Here is a pic when the battery was below 30%

 

[atikovi]

Just how far can the car go on a 4 bar battery? Isn't a new battery something like $6000? That would make no sense when for another $3-4K you can get 2017 Bolt with a new battery and close to 8 years warranty.

 

[Klausstein]

Just how far can the car go on a 4 bar battery? Isn't a new battery something like $6000? That would make no sense when for another $3-4K you can get 2017 Bolt with a new battery and close to 8 years warranty.

35 miles. My work is 3 miles away. I don’t need much range. When the battery goes in a few years we have a place in Portland that does a 24kw replacement for $4k. The car was free plus I got a $650 check. So under $4k is all I will have in it.
I also prefer to keep older cars going as long as they can and keep them out of the landfill.
We also have a 2020 SV+ and a gas Expedition for long trips.

 

[knightmb]

Sorry for the lat response. The car was manufactured 3/13. Here is a pic when the battery was below 30%

Given the battery SOH, that's actually quite good. I was surprised when I saw it.
Basically, the math works out to roughly 7.8 kWH of capacity. Subtract about 0.3 for shutdown, if my memory serves from what my 2013 ownership and you've got roughly +7.5 kWH of usable capacity. Your 35 mile range is about spot on then.

At this point, the cells are so degraded that you might not really need to do much other than avoid running the temperature into the red zone or leaving it at 100% SOC for long periods of time. Since it's a 2013, just use the 80% SOC limit option and just keep it at that all the time. Doesn't really matter if you use 120V or 240V, though the 240V will produce less heat in the battery, overall due to shorter charging times. At 240V, you can literally charge it from 0% to 100% in little over an hour.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Just how far can the car go on a 4 bar battery? Isn't a new battery something like $6000? That would make no sense when for another $3-4K you can get 2017 Bolt with a new battery and close to 8 years warranty.

Re: battery cost
My understanding is current new battery cost is a good bit higher out the door.

 

[MikeinPA]

Those are likely the Japanese cells in there based on the production. The Japanese cells have generally aged rapidly in the US.

Keep the charge between 30% and 70%, drive like you grandmother, stay under 4 bubbles power and keep the battery cool. Could go for years like this if you are just going 10 miles a day or so.

An 8 kwh capacity battery putting out 8 kw is a 1C discharge. 8 kw is 1 or 2 bubbles on the dashboard display. 16 kw is about 3 bubbles, and roughly 2C discharge. I would not go over 4 bubbles except for safety reasons.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Those are likely the Japanese cells in there based on the production. The Japanese cells have generally aged rapidly in the US.

Keep the charge between 30% and 70%, drive like you grandmother, stay under 4 bubbles power and keep the battery cool. Could go for years like this if you are just going 10 miles a day or so.

An 8 kwh capacity battery putting out 8 kw is a 1C discharge. 8 kw is 1 or 2 bubbles on the dashboard display. 16 kw is about 3 bubbles, and roughly 2C discharge. I would not go over 4 bubbles except for safety reasons.

I wonder if that’s a temperature/humidity thing. Japan is an island.
TLDNR: why
Old British cars had a rep for insane hp to weight, but not running reliably in the U.S. though they did fine in Britain. It turned out eventually to be because Britain had some of the most consistent weather in the world. They did things like not making the wiring harnesses big enough To allow for the amount of shrinkage from low temps or put weight on em because “hey, it’s wire” and the wires would crack inside the insulation. They also liked to use a lot of leather for things like gaskets. Once they knew what was wrong they fixed it, but they were mystified for 50 years. Also British cars ran a little better in Japan than they did in the US. Still not as good.. but better

 

[MikeinPA]

A theory I have seen is that the cells were not tweaked for higher temperatures because this was not needed in Japan. Maybe.

 

[Bombastinator2]

TLDNR tinfoil hat is on

The whole Japanese cells are better thing puts that into question though. You still had batteries in America. Maybe they DID tweak them , but they tweaked them too much for some areas… like California. So a mixed cell battery would do better in California but in Alaska it would just die.

 

[CHLPatent]

Given the battery SOH, that's actually quite good. I was surprised when I saw it.
Basically, the math works out to roughly 7.8 kWH of capacity. Subtract about 0.3 for shutdown, if my memory serves from what my 2013 ownership and you've got roughly +7.5 kWH of usable capacity. Your 35 mile range is about spot on then.

At this point, the cells are so degraded that you might not really need to do much other than avoid running the temperature into the red zone or leaving it at 100% SOC for long periods of time. Since it's a 2013, just use the 80% SOC limit option and just keep it at that all the time. Doesn't really matter if you use 120V or 240V, though the 240V will produce less heat in the battery, overall due to shorter charging times. At 240V, you can literally charge it from 0% to 100% in little over an hour.

I generally get well over 4 miles per kilowatt in my 2012 Leaf - I have low mileage so I still have 8 of the 12 bars - never charged over 80 percent, usually just charge enough to get me to 50% or 30 to 40 miles of range, like you I have only local use needs, to and from grocery store, etc.

I drive the speed limits and never use the air or heat, always in ECO mode, gradual stops and starts, that equates to nearly 5 miles per kiliowatt for mine, even with a hill or two - coast down with brakes pressed to regenerate.

So like every one says charge L1 if that is fast enough/slow enough and it could last you a long time.

Good job!

 

[Vinicio Viquez]

35 miles. My work is 3 miles away. I don’t need much range. When the battery goes in a few years we have a place in Portland that does a 24kw replacement for $4k. The car was free plus I got a $650 check. So under $4k is all I will have in it.
I also prefer to keep older cars going as long as they can and keep them out of the landfill.
We also have a 2020 SV+ and a gas Expedition for long trips.

Hello there, can you please text me the info for the place in Portland that will do it for 4k? 6176946006 Vinny. Thanks

 

[Klausstein]

EV Rides. I reached back out to them and they are out of 24kWh packs. When they quoted me a fewl months ago they had inventory of 24s. A 40kWh from them is like $9k.

 

[pstarSR]

My personal impression, but I am a new leaf owner. is chademo, or rapid fast charging is where the leaf battery is upset. pounding it fast with alot of energy can cause heating issues. which causes degradation in chemistry. along with charge levels. 100% isnt a good idea if sitting idle. but can be used if on a trip and need range. but most of the time living with 50-80% charge is where it seems to work best

I have a 10bar ( 75.48% SOH leafspy ) 24kwh leaf 2015 with 50k on it. L2 charged most its life. has a chademo, but I think its only been used a handful of time. im 3rd owner. sometimes being super picky on charging seems right. but the car probably wasnt treated to slow trickle charging ever. and my battery is still decent. take that as you may.

also, dont forget, nissan leaf battery packs are pretty much plug and play across most years. so a wrecked nissan leaf could have a battery for you for MUCH cheaper than a new one. although " USED "