Charge Cycle Count?

[SnaxMuppet]

Is there a way to get the count of the number of times I have charged?

I haven't been keeping a log and I want to find out the number of charge cycles I have put the car through... particularly L3 charges.

I don't suppose it is particularly useful but Nissan have recommended no more than 1 L2 + 1 L3 charge per day on average so I thought it would be good to see how my charging stacks up to that recommendation.

 

[91040]

I don't suppose it is particularly useful but Nissan have recommended no more than 1 L2 + 1 L3 charge per day on average so I thought it would be good to see how my charging stacks up to that recommendation.

Nissan's recommendation is in regards to L3 only, not L2.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

No, Nissan recommends a single L3 and a single L2 charge per day so it refers to both L3 & L2.

 

[abasile]

No, Nissan recommends a single L3 and a single L2 charge per day so it refers to both L3 & L2.

Welcome to the forum! Whenever feasible, it is recommended that we allow a cooling off period between driving and charging. This is typically accomplished using charging timers. Of course, if you're out and about and making use of public charging, delaying charging is generally not feasible. I wouldn't be at all concerned about this, though. As for only doing a single L2 charge per day, that is news to me. Please let us know how you came across that advice.

Regarding your initial question, keep in mind that, even if it were possible to measure charge cycles, not all charge cycles are equal. If most of your driving can be done by cycling between 30% and 80%, you will almost certainly see better battery longevity than someone routinely cycling between 10% and 100%. Cycling between 40% and 60% should be even better, as lithium-ion batteries tend to degrade most slowly when kept in the middle of their charge range. Of course, it is more important to get whatever charge is necessary for each drive. I do not hesitate to charge all the way up to 100% if I need to.

 

[Randy]

On page 7 of the CHarging section of the Owner's Manual, Nissan addresses your question about DC Fast Charging frequency (or as they call it, "Quick Charge"):

Quick charge (if so equipped)
Quick charge capability is only available on
vehicles manufactured with the quick charge
option, which includes the quick charge port. If
your vehicle does not have such a port, quick
charging cannot be used.
A vehicle equipped with a quick charge port is
compatible with most CHAdeMO (Japanese
industry standard) connectors on charging
stations. Charging stations using this standard
are UL certified and safe to use in the US. While
supported by NISSAN, this connector may not
become the US SAE standard.
NISSAN recommends that quick charging not
be performed more than once a day.


I am not aware of a similar statement with respect to L2 charging. They are concerned about battery pack heating with respect to multiple DC Fast Charges per day.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

When we have quick chargers, we'll get some better information...

I'm thinking that doing two quick charges to 60% in the morning and in the evening when it's cooler will cause less degradation than one Quick Charge to 80% during the hottest part of the day.

Devising a strategy for multiple Quick Charges in a single day enables trips of over 150 miles round trip at 65 mph. If pack temperature is the main degradation mechanism, we can defnitely find strategies to get more energy from QC than a single charge to 80% with less degradation - 2 charges to 60% of 3 to 50%....

 

[earther]

Devising a strategy for multiple Quick Charges in a single day...

I'd like to try to develop a strategy to just get a *single* QC on any day, ever! :-o

 

[earther]

If most of your driving can be done by cycling between 30% and 80%, you will almost certainly see better battery longevity than someone routinely cycling between 10% and 100%. Cycling between 40% and 60% should be even better, as lithium-ion batteries tend to degrade most slowly when kept in the middle of their charge range.

Because my typical daily (round trip) mileage is ~40miles, I have two options regarding my regular charging: go down to ~50% each day and charge back up to 100% nightly (theoretically it might suffice to just do 80%, but I feel safer at 100%), OR half the number of cycles by only charging up every other day, but then taking in twice the charge by going from empty all the way to full. Which causes less degradation to my Leaf battery, or does it not make a significant difference (or is that answer to that question still unknown)?

-steve

 

[SnaxMuppet]

I have had my Leaf now for 5 months (one of the very first in the UK) and have done over 6500 miles so I am very familiar with the different charging. I have done many long trips of 500 miles or more with several L2 and L3 charges enroute so I would like to get some record of my charging history.

That is all.

 

[Stoaty]

Because my typical daily (round trip) mileage is ~40miles, I have two options regarding my regular charging: go down to ~50% each day and charge back up to 100% nightly (theoretically it might suffice to just do 80%, but I feel safer at 100%), OR half the number of cycles by only charging up every other day, but then taking in twice the charge by going from empty all the way to full. Which causes less degradation to my Leaf battery, or does it not make a significant difference (or is that answer to that question still unknown)?

Neither sounds ideal--the first because charging to 100% is stated by Nissan to negatively affect battery longevity, the second because deeper cycling of the battery is probably not optimal for it either. If you would be willing to do 2 trips on 100% charge, that will take the battery a lot lower than one trip on an 80% charge. The former would make me a bit nervous, the latter not at all. I drive 47 miles per day and have been charging to 80% for the last 3 months, although I am starting to charge to a little less than 80% when the temperature at work is above 90 degrees (my car sits in the hot sun all day there).

 

[abasile]

Because my typical daily (round trip) mileage is ~40miles, I have two options regarding my regular charging: go down to ~50% each day and charge back up to 100% nightly (theoretically it might suffice to just do 80%, but I feel safer at 100%), OR half the number of cycles by only charging up every other day, but then taking in twice the charge by going from empty all the way to full. Which causes less degradation to my Leaf battery, or does it not make a significant difference (or is that answer to that question still unknown)?

I agree with Stoaty that neither way is ideal. However, why even consider charging only every other day if you feel safer at 100%? If you don't feel safe at 80%, you certainly won't feel safe at 50% or 60% on that second day! I would recommend at least trying charging to 80%.

 

[planet4ever]

Because my typical daily (round trip) mileage is ~40miles, I have two options regarding my regular charging: go down to ~50% each day and charge back up to 100% nightly (theoretically it might suffice to just do 80%, but I feel safer at 100%), OR half the number of cycles by only charging up every other day, but then taking in twice the charge by going from empty all the way to full. Which causes less degradation to my Leaf battery, or does it not make a significant difference (or is that answer to that question still unknown)?

Well, for maximum battery life you definitely don't want to charge to 100%, since Nissan calls 80% the "Battery Longevity" mode. We don't know for sure about <5% but it seems probable that going there frequently would also reduce battery life. Besides, down there lies anxiety. If you are using 50% (coming home with 5 bars after 100% charge) then I think you should charge daily and use a 30% to 80% charge range (2+ bars to 10- bars). By 2+ I mean you will see 3 when you get home, but if you power down and back up you will see only 2. I certainly wouldn't call that an "unsafe" place to be. I figure anything down to the low battery warning (17%) is both safe and good for battery life.

Ray

 

[LEAFfan]

NISSAN recommends that quick charging not
be performed more than once a day.

I believe this manual info to be old information. The jury is still out on QCing. Just before I received my LEAF in June, VP of Marketing and Sales, Brendon Jones told me that the battery pack was extensively tested (equivalent of 8 years) in Phoenix during the HOT summers and they found that QCing up to 6 X a day did NOT degrade the battery pack any more than any other charging. It's okay if you don't want to believe it, but I plan on taking some longer trips to try these out. For me, it would take about 3 to 4 QCs to get to SD.

 

[mxp]

If most of your driving can be done by cycling between 30% and 80%, you will almost certainly see better battery longevity than someone routinely cycling between 10% and 100%. Cycling between 40% and 60% should be even better, as lithium-ion batteries tend to degrade most slowly when kept in the middle of their charge range.

Because my typical daily (round trip) mileage is ~40miles, I have two options regarding my regular charging: go down to ~50% each day and charge back up to 100% nightly (theoretically it might suffice to just do 80%, but I feel safer at 100%), OR half the number of cycles by only charging up every other day, but then taking in twice the charge by going from empty all the way to full. Which causes less degradation to my Leaf battery, or does it not make a significant difference (or is that answer to that question still unknown)?

-steve

Steve, I asked something similar a while back, and most of the usual suspects here chimed in on that old thread which I bookmarked for my own personal reference.

I thought I'd link it here for you to read it:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5133" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Randy]

NISSAN recommends that quick charging not
be performed more than once a day.

I believe this manual info to be old information. The jury is still out on QCing. Just before I received my LEAF in June, VP of Marketing and Sales, Brendon Jones told me that the battery pack was extensively tested (equivalent of 8 years) in Phoenix during the HOT summers and they found that QCing up to 6 X a day did NOT degrade the battery pack any more than any other charging. It's okay if you don't want to believe it, but I plan on taking some longer trips to try these out. For me, it would take about 3 to 4 QCs to get to SD.

This once per day QC recommendation was also contained in the document I was asked to sign as a buyer at the Nissan Dealer. While it may be true that the batteries have been extensively tested and were able to withstand additional QCs per day, it smells to me like Nissan will be using the once-per-day language in any decisions that need to be made about the warranty and/or battery issues....

In other words, Mr. Buyer, you signed that you understood our recommendation was not exceed one QC per day, and we see from your Carwings records (that you gave us permission to see) that you quick-charged 14 times over this 5 day period back two years ago. Therefore, Nissan declines your battery warranty claim based on you greatly exceeding our recommendation....

 

[LEAFfan]

NISSAN recommends that quick charging not
be performed more than once a day.

I believe this manual info to be old information. The jury is still out on QCing. Just before I received my LEAF in June, VP of Marketing and Sales, Brendon Jones told me that the battery pack was extensively tested (equivalent of 8 years) in Phoenix during the HOT summers and they found that QCing up to 6 X a day did NOT degrade the battery pack any more than any other charging. It's okay if you don't want to believe it, but I plan on taking some longer trips to try these out. For me, it would take about 3 to 4 QCs to get to SD.

This once per day QC recommendation was also contained in the document I was asked to sign as a buyer at the Nissan Dealer. While it may be true that the batteries have been extensively tested and were able to withstand additional QCs per day, it smells to me like Nissan will be using the once-per-day language in any decisions that need to be made about the warranty and/or battery issues....In other words, Mr. Buyer, you signed that you understood our recommendation was not exceed one QC per day, and we see from your Carwings records (that you gave us permission to see) that you quick-charged 14 times over this 5 day period back two years ago. Therefore, Nissan declines your battery warranty claim based on you greatly exceeding our recommendation....

That doesn't sound good for you, but I've checked through all of my paperwork, and there is no such agreement/doc that I signed.

 

[planet4ever]

While I don't think multiple QCs per day are a good idea, I have to agree with LEAFfan on this one. I can't find anything I signed that says I shouldn't do it. The four-page document I signed does say I understand that CHAdeMo may not become a US standard, that there is no guarantee QC stations will become available to me, and that 240v charging is recommended.

Ray

 

[SnaxMuppet]

I have it from Nissan UK that the "one QC and one SC per day" is an average... that is that they do not consider that multiple QC per day to be significantly detrimental and that it isn't until you get to 350+ QCs per year that it becomes an issue.

The "80% after 5 yrs" is based on one QC and one SC per day... for the entire 5 years!

We have some Leafs here being used as taxis. I also know of one Leaf owners that ONLY quick charges! He doesn't have off-street parking so has to charge at a public charge station and so he quick charges all the time. He doesn't consider this a problem because he only charges 2 or three times a week which is well under the 350+ a year that Nissan recommend as the upper limit for sensible battery life.

Of course, we can probably get better battery life by quick charging less but it is a battery... it lives to be charged and discharged. Clearly we don't want to abuse the battery or do anything that significantly reduces its life but surely we buy these cars to drive and that means charging and if we need to QC then so be it IMO. I am not going to do less driving because I think that a few QCs will reduce my battery life a bit. If I need to QC I will and if not then I won't.

It would be nice to have a counter on the car showing charge cycles though just to keep tabs.

 

[Herm]

I really dont think battery life will be an issue in the UK, you guys have a moderate climate.. even if you used an L3 charger exclusively.

 

[mxp]

I have it from Nissan UK that the "one QC and one SC per day" is an average... that is that they do not consider that multiple QC per day to be significantly detrimental and that it isn't until you get to 350+ QCs per year that it becomes an issue.

The "80% after 5 yrs" is based on one QC and one SC per day... for the entire 5 years!

We have some Leafs here being used as taxis. I also know of one Leaf owners that ONLY quick charges! He doesn't have off-street parking so has to charge at a public charge station and so he quick charges all the time. He doesn't consider this a problem because he only charges 2 or three times a week which is well under the 350+ a year that Nissan recommend as the upper limit for sensible battery life.

Of course, we can probably get better battery life by quick charging less but it is a battery... it lives to be charged and discharged. Clearly we don't want to abuse the battery or do anything that significantly reduces its life but surely we buy these cars to drive and that means charging and if we need to QC then so be it IMO. I am not going to do less driving because I think that a few QCs will reduce my battery life a bit. If I need to QC I will and if not then I won't.

It would be nice to have a counter on the car showing charge cycles though just to keep tabs.

That Leaf owner's use case (only quick charges) is an interesting data point. I recall here on a particular thread ( I forget ) that quoted that Nissan Japan has data on someone similar who had frequently QCed their Leaf multiple times on a single day. Not sure if anyone in the Nissan Japan Leaf forums have further info on that as well.

Personally, I think that the variables of battery cooling and QCing frequency is a function that needs to be carefully observed. By somehow "actively" monitoring battery temps whilst QC cycle and then <cooling>; and then proceed to driving and then allowing time to cool before another QC cycle and repeating the whole process; I think would lead to a reasonably sustainable use case for driving the Leaf on frequent QC cycles.

I would still insist that degradation will still be on the high side in the QC use case, but at what delta ? If the difference is say; 2 years earlier of visible degradation (from say the standard 8 years lifecycle), would that still be acceptable to a Leaf owner faced with that QC only scenario?

If I was leasing (i.e. 3 years): I would not hesitate to QC every time and all the time, but still observe the cooling process I mentioned above.