Comparison: Why I Chose a Nissan Leaf Plus over a Tesla Model 3

[OldManCan]

How much is an extra 100 miles of range worth ?
How much is 250 kW DC charging worth ?

My use case is 100 to 150 mile round trips couple times a week and the SL+ delivers more than enough for it. Answer to above question can be very different for different people who may often need to take longer trips or do UBER etc.

On couple occasions each year we tend to go for longer trips (ie 1500 to 2000 miles round trip over a week) and I could easily rent a car at $300 per week / unlimited mileage rate and cover that need without adding extra miles to my car.

How much is a much faster car worth ?

Where I live...
about $230 for a speeding ticket if you're 15 mph over the limit,
nearly $360 for going up to 25 mph over,
and about $500 for going above 26 mph but under 100 mph.

How much is better safety worth ?

Priceless if it is the case. Not saying it is or it is not but this would be a decision factor for me if LEAF were not to meet acceptable safety standards.I hope not to put this one to test...

How much is much better driving dynamics worth ?
How much is vastly superior telematics and UI/UX worth ?
How much is superior aesthetics worth ?

Somewhat subjective points. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and so is the UI/UX preference.

I am not a Tesla hater. Definitely impressed with the company and how they are spearheading disruptive change in many ways. I may own one in the future. All said, for the time being and my current use case, LEAF was the better fit choice.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

With only Leafs, no ICES the Plus fleet (of 2) continues to meet our needs.

I won't deny that I find the Tesla 3 and S attractive cars (not such a fan of the Y, looks a bit pregnant)., but struggle to justify the extra price for the minimal road tripping that we do. The Kansas-Chicago run was nearly farther than I had ever even driven an ICE vehicle in a day, so while I would have loved to have that hour back in extra charging time...for an extra 20K for the SR+ I struggle. I wouldn't mind an extra 20kWh in the battery though for the very long trips.

Safety on the Leaf is exceptional, so is the Tesla.

V2H is primarily a benefit if you are in the UK or Japan. While there are pilots in Australia and Europe, they are pretty small in comparison. By the time it gets to the US, I think there will be other connector options.

I am a Buck Rodgers/Star Wars generation person, so like I physical buttons, lots of them. I don't like the button less minimalist look, just personal taste. Last week we were in Florida and had a Ford Edge for a rental (an M3 was available for an extra $650 for the week over the $320 (with gas) suv, but that felt pretty steep). The climate controls when wanting to switch modes required use of the touch screen, which I quickly found very frustrating to use, especially while driving. I am not sure about the haptic approach yet, but not a fan of moving everything in the touch screen function wise. The lane nudging (not level 2) assistance I thought was pretty well done though.

Charging both speed and location were huge Tesla advantages for many years is shrinking. A number of cars now boast faster miles per minute and the 3rd party landscape is quickly populating. My 2 cents is while Tesla will let other cars into its garden soon, it is not so eager to let more of the Teslas out. I am not sure we will see the ccs adapter here anytime soon. It only serves to work against the Tesla business model.

In terms of AI, Tesla still has that as an advantage, though the value of most adaptive systems cover 80-90% of the value use case for most drivers. The next differentiator comes only when you can get into the back seat of your car and have it drive you. Until then the value gap between super cruise, Blue Cruise, etc.. and Autopilot feels fairly small. In terms of updstes,.it sounds like Xpeng/Nio will be charging for OTA updates. I am curious when/if Tesla does the same..though with the subscription models rolling out, it maybe slowly moving there anyway.
.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

Kudos and thanks to the OP. Thanks for sharing your reasoning in such a detailed manner.

As far as I'm concerned, both the Model 3 and the Leaf+ are successful designs, reasonably good at what they're intended to do. The tradeoffs are clear enough, it's just a matter of choosing the right tool for your intended use.

I disagree that those of us who happen to still own an ICE vehicle are in some sense "intellectually dishonest". How so? I have no idea what that even means in this context.

We like our Leaf+, it's a great little commuter car for use as an urban corridor runabout. I do not intend to ever drive it cross-country, and don't mind that it wouldn't be a good fit for that task. Why would I? I don't drive our roadster off-road for similar reasons. Wrong tool for that job. I find a lot of the discussion around the Leaf's supposed limitations a bit bewildering.

Tesla has its own can of worms associated with it. I've driven model 3s multiple times and have several friends with them. Nice car.

Yes I know the difference between a commuter car and a sports sedan. I've owned several of the latter and still own an e85 BMW roadster. I don't find the Leaf+ nearly as offensive as some do. It's fine in day-to-day driving. I didn't buy it to track the thing. Yes, the steering is way too light.

No, I don't want a model 3, largely because the interior ergonomics are a deal-killer for me. The value proposition to me is questionable these days, and Tesla has an unfortunate habit of reneging on their promises. There are plenty of owners on the Tesla forums who report less than stellar experiences. Some of those I can relate to, and others less so. Expectations matter I guess.

My one friend did have to drive his model 3 1000 miles to California for service. Which he happily did. Still talks about it (positively!). Total fanboi. Me, not so much. Tesla is making an impact and forcing important change - but as a supplier of a major investment they have a ways to go as far as I'm concerned. Local support has improved in recent years, but Elon needs to remember to take all of his medicine all of the time, and stay off Twitter unless he's sober and well-rested.

It helps that our local Nissan dealer is on the better end of Leaf savvy-ness. I would not have bought one without good local support, although to date I haven't needed it.

 

[SageBrush]

My one friend did have to drive his model 3 1000 miles to California for service.

Huh ?

What part of the Denver service center was not usable ?
The only *possible* thing I can possibly entertain is a battery swap, but Tesla would have handled the logistics if needed and requested. Color me 100% skeptical that Tesla forced the owner to drive to CA.

 

[jlv]

Tesla does not allow android auto or apple car play which is laughable from my viewpoint.

People say this all the time, but I don't know what they think they are missing. I've used two ICE cars (rentals) with Android Auto. The experience was enough to let me know I don't really want to use Android Auto at all. I can't imagine how it would improve the trip experience in a Tesla.

 

[knightmb]

Tesla does not allow android auto or apple car play which is laughable from my viewpoint.

People say this all the time, but I don't know what they think they are missing. I've used two ICE cars (rentals) with Android Auto. The experience was enough to let me know I don't really want to use Android Auto at all. I can't imagine how it would improve the trip experience in a Tesla.

They want to watch movies on that screen
I think that is illegal in a lot of states though...

 

[gcrouse]

...
BATTERY:
...
With the 8-year/100k-mile battery warranty on the Leaf, I personally am betting that the cost of a replacement battery in 8 years, if necessary, will be much lower than today.
...
There are aftermarket options to replace the battery on a Leaf from non-Nissan companies.

That's a interesting bet considering that the battery that fits your car may not be available in 8 years.

i'm not aware of any viable aftermarket options such as you mention.

I'd be willing to bet Nissan will still have the batteries available since they'll need at least some stock for potential warranty repairs. Now whether the price is reasonable or if Nissan will sell them by then is a grand question.

 

[SageBrush]

Correction to earlier post:

The Tesla Model 3 has 143 more range miles than the LEAF SV+, not 100 as I wrote earlier.
Funny no one corrected the error :lol: :lol:

Back when I bought my Tesla Model 3 LR in 2018, I paid about a $10k premium over the SR to get 100 miles more range (and a few other fairly minor things.) My wife commented through the years just how valuable the extra range was for us. She hates spending money on cars but thought the $10k was worth every penny. The Tesla forums are replete with people who pretty much say 'buy as much range as you can afford.'

I've joined that camp, at least up to 400 miles. Keep in mind though that my EV is an all purpose car. No ICE stinker lurking in our garage.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Sage, I do agree that 400 will become the minimum bar over time in terms of range, and yes it was a good call to get the larger battery over the SR+.

 

[knightmb]

The Tesla forums are replete with people who pretty much say 'buy as much range as you can afford.'

I encourage the same thing about the Leaf when helping friends and family, I tell them "pay for the extra range". Not to put down anyone who owns the 40 kWh Leaf (my wife loves her), but even she sometimes "wishes" she had gotten the 62 kWh version.

 

[SageBrush]

The Tesla forums are replete with people who pretty much say 'buy as much range as you can afford.'

I encourage the same thing about the Leaf when helping friends and family, I tell them "pay for the extra range". Not to put down anyone who owns the 40 kWh Leaf (my wife loves her), but even she sometimes "wishes" she had gotten the 62 kWh version.

I even gave passing thought to switching my Model Y order to a Model S to gain the 400 mile range but neither of us like large cars and the price made her eyes water. I sort of expect Tesla to come out with a 400 mile Model Y this year. If my order has not filled yet, I'll get to put my opinions to the test since I'll have to pay for the increased range AND I may have to forgo the locked in price I currently hold.

 

[gcrouse]

The Tesla forums are replete with people who pretty much say 'buy as much range as you can afford.'

I encourage the same thing about the Leaf when helping friends and family, I tell them "pay for the extra range". Not to put down anyone who owns the 40 kWh Leaf (my wife loves her), but even she sometimes "wishes" she had gotten the 62 kWh version.

I even gave passing thought to switching my Model Y order to a Model S to gain the 400 mile range but neither of us like large cars and the price made her eyes water. I sort of expect Tesla to come out with a 400 mile Model Y this year. If my order has not filled yet, I'll get to put my opinions to the test since I'll have to pay for the increased range AND I may have to forgo the locked in price I currently hold.

The buy as much range as you can get thing is something i wish I had known/considered when initially buying. I was originally targeting the 24kw pack leaf but now I'm glad i ended up with the 30kwh.

I'm actually disappointed Tesla did away with plans for the Standard Range Y since 244 miles would be fine for someone like me and the price point would be preferable. Granted, from a production standpoint with demand outweighing production - it makes sense to axe the less profitable stuff.

 

[WetEV]

Correction to earlier post:

The Tesla Model 3 has 143 more range miles than the LEAF SV+, not 100 as I wrote earlier.
Funny no one corrected the error :lol: :lol:

About 120 miles real world range difference, if you want it corrected.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/


I personally, at this stage of life, find about 210 miles of range to be more than enough. The above test was before an update that improved motor efficiency and unlock a bit of battery, improving range by about 12%. So the best estimate of range for the updated e-tron is about 12% higher than shown.

While I did get the update, I find that the e-tron's range usually exceeds our biological range, and at 145+ kW from 0 to 80%, the recharge stop time is shorter than the biological stop time.

LEAF is a better choice for more people for most uses than your Tesla.

 

[fester]

I researched the Model 3 and gave it some thought. Until the price began spiraling upward and availability spiraling downward. Given the current global supply train problems, getting anything is difficult, that's understandable. Even if available, $50K is out of my price bracket.
The final decision to go with my now new 2022 SV PLus, was a few months ago when Tesla Server problems locked many owners out of their cars. The supply-chain problems just illustrate just how dependent we are on an already fragile infrastructure.
That being said, I do appreciate the tech that Elon has been able to deploy with Tesla and especially SpaceX, but my new Leaf works well for me.

 

[SageBrush]

The final decision to go with my now new 2022 SV PLus, was a few months ago when Tesla Server problems locked many owners out of their cars.

Not that FUD again

Owners were unable to authenticate their login with Tesla servers for 2 hours or so. Regarding getting into the car and driving, It did not affect the valet card (which any sane Tesla owner always carries as backup to the phone) and it did not affect any phone as key using BLE that was already logged in to the Tesla App -- meaning +/- everybody since owners login once and stay logged in. The server glitch did affect remote access.

However, there are a million+ Tesla drivers out there so I don't doubt a fool or 3 figured out how to get confuzzled.

 

[knightmb]

Not that FUD again

Owners were unable to authenticate their login with Tesla servers for 2 hours or so. Regarding getting into the car and driving, It did not affect the valet card (which any sane Tesla owner always carries as backup to the phone) and it did not affect any phone as key using BLE that was already logged in to the Tesla App -- meaning +/- everybody since owners login once and stay logged in. The server glitch did affect remote access.

However, there are a million+ Tesla drivers out there so I don't doubt a fool or 3 figured out how to get confuzzled.

I saw it on a lot of news sites and thought about the same thing, so only a few minutes of online research found out it was minor, you could still get into your Tesla. The problem is, it seems a lot of Tesla owners didn't know the work-around and complained to a bunch of news outlets and well, here we are. News about nothing. :lol:

 

[SageBrush]

The problem is, it seems a lot of Tesla owners didn't know the work-around

Authenticating to the Tesla server is a blue moon event for the overwhelming population of Tesla owners so only a handful would have even known the server is down. And only those of that handful that did have the NFC card would have been inconvenienced.

But you know how these things go -- the echo chamber is a terrible thing to waste

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I did appreciate Nissan adding the door unlock feature in the app (vs functions from our 2013 Leaf).

It doesn't feel like Tesla is in a hurry to launch the ccs adapter in the US.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

With the LFP batteries now in the US and Tesla saying 100% charge is recommended; if they add a solar roof option.... they may win some business from me.

 

[johnlocke]

With the LFP batteries now in the US and Tesla saying 100% charge is recommended; if they add a solar roof option.... they may win some business from me.

Unfortunately, other than a few cars back in October and November LFP batteries have been a no show so far in the US. Tesla has said that LFP will be the new standard battery but so far only cars built in China and Chinese export models sent to Europe have them. I personally think that LFP batteries in a 3 or a Y would make eminent sense. With a 4000-5000 cycle lifetime, the ability to charge to 100% without liability, and a similar range to the current standard NMC battery, it's practically a no-brainer. Only fly in the ointment is cold weather performance and preheating the battery will alleviate most of that.