Decision time !

[Jimfastcar]

I apologize because I expect that all the answers to my questions are in various threads, but I need to make a decision in the next very few days.
This will be my first electric car and I have been reading on the subject for several months. My decision to purchase an electric car is partly predicated on costs of operation but also my willingness to pay a reasonable premium as my contribution to the environment.
I live in a Condo building having sold our house, but we have 4 public use indoor L2 chargers and I will be installing one in my parking spot.
I have a deposit and have ordered a Tesla Model Y, but frankly am getting cold feet at the $ 25.000 difference with the Leaf SL Plus, and the reality that 90% + of my driving will be under 100 Km per day as I am retiring in a few months. I am 67 and have had my share of excitement in my life, so no need to blaze down the highway and compete with the youngsters. Prefer to bank my hard earned money.
Long winded intro, my apologies.
1. Winters - I live in Oakville (Toronto) Canada - how much range can I expect to lose ?
2. Tesla's are wonderful and exciting cars, but having done a lot of reading on Forums, etc, they really are a work in progress. Even though I am reasonably comfortable with technology, I really dont want to spend a lot of time fussing - are Leaf's reasonably get in and go year after year ?
3. We will still keep an ICE car for my wife, perhaps a plug in Hybrid in future for the very occasional longer trip; but on the rare occasions I might want to go further afield with the Leaf, are there options along the lines of the Tesla super chargers, ie, high power / fast charging ?
4.I test drove a basic model today as that was the Demo of my local dealer, but I will want to get the top model with the creature comforts, any concerns or advice on this inclination ?
5. Should I get a longer term warranty plan ? Can I expect 100,000 Km reasonably trouble-free ? I have driven 4 Infiniti's for 20 years without any problem whatsoever.

I will stop here so as not to overtax your patience, but if you can think of anything you might offer a complete novice it would be appreciated.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you prefer comfort over handling (and would like a heated steering wheel in Winter) and have range needs under 200km, I suggest a Leaf Plus. The mid and high end models will have 'Chademo' DC Fast Charging, which seems to be widely available in most of Canada. A 40kwh Leaf would meet your needs most of the time, but if you want near Tesla-like range along with comfort and great acceleration, the Plus version with 62kwh battery is superior. It should exceed your range needs even in Winter. You shouldn't need an extended warranty. Just make sure that it has the All Weather Package if it's an SV (I believe this is required in Canada anyway) and if possible get the Tech Package,for Pro Pilot driving assist and for Around View, a fantastic 4 camera parking system.

 

[salyavin]

In your case I would get the LEAF. SV Plus with cold weather package seems good, if you really want leather than get the SL. My neighbours around me have Teslas and I see funny little build quality things where they have to take it in for service which is covered but can take a long time silly crap like a door handle or something, I have not seen this with a LEAF. I feel the LEAF has a better build quality and reliability other than a history of trouble with batteries in hot climates like Arizona (which you do not live in). The Plus has more cells in it's battery so I have so far not been able to heat it up like earlier batteries. Tesla is way faster both in top speed and 0-60, yea I don't need that either but I think you will find that the LEAF accelerates 0-60 faster than many cars on the road. Tesla will probably do better in hot climates with their battery cooling system but again you do not live in death valley.

I'll tell you another funny thing I like about the LEAF, actual physical controls for things like air conditioning etc. What this allows is you to feel and keep your eyes on the road. I have yet to see a Y but from what I looked at looks like they liked touch screen controls, to me that feels dangerous as I cannot feel the controls and would have to look at the screen.

The tech package around view is awesome, propilot assist is nice in heavy traffic on the highways if you have that problem (I do sometimes). It does not do as much as Tesla autopilot but does steer to keep you in lane and maintain distance albeit with your hand on the wheel. You could even cut this if you don't think you'll use it and save more money. My wife also likes the LED headlights. Much of this is just included in the SL.

Other EVs may be available in your area as well.

 

[Jimfastcar]

Thanks for your comments folks, appreciate it

 

[alozzy]

If you're buying new, get a Kia Niro EV instead:

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/kia/niro%20ev/orangeville/ontario/5_47934799_20110614115316092?ncse=no&showVs=1&orup=1_1_1&pc=L4X%201L9&sprx=250

Or a Kona Electric:

https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/hyundai/kona%20electric/on/mississauga/?rcp=20&rcs=0&srt=23&prx=250&prv=Ontario&loc=L4X%201L9&hprc=True&wcp=True&sts=New&showcpo=1&inMarket=advancedSearch

Or a.Kia Soul EV:

https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/kia/soul%20ev/on/mississauga/?rcp=20&rcs=0&srt=4&prx=100&prv=Ontario&loc=L4X%201L9&hprc=True&wcp=True&sts=New&showcpo=1&inMarket=basicSearch

Or an IONIQ Electric:

https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/hyundai/ioniq%20electric/on/mississauga/?rcp=20&rcs=0&srt=23&prx=250&prv=Ontario&loc=L4X%201L9&hprc=True&wcp=True&sts=New&showcpo=1&inMarket=advancedSearch

If you don't need as much range, the IONIQ Electric is a very nice car and considerably less expensive.

 

[webeleafowners]

I think a Leaf SL plus would be a great match for you with what you plan to use it for. Great car, well screwed together and should serve you well in winter. And you’ll love the heated steering wheel. It’s also easier to get in and out of than my wife’s model 3 Tesla although I think the model Y is a little higher so maybe not as much of a difference there. My wife loves her Tesla and I drive it every chance I get. Super nice as well...and crazy fast. But getting in and driving my 2016 Leaf feels like coming home. Still the best car I have owned.

Good luck with the decision.

 

[salyavin]

I heard the Korean EVs have a shorter battery warranty but otherwise are very good and worth a look.

 

[Nubo]

I apologize because I expect that all the answers to my questions are in various threads, but I need to make a decision in the next very few days.

...

I will stop here so as not to overtax your patience, but if you can think of anything you might offer a complete novice it would be appreciated.

It's a complex topic and a lot to learn for first-time EV buyers. My advice if you're being pressured to make a decision that you are unprepared for, is to walk away from it, regroup, and do your homework.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

I apologize because I expect that all the answers to my questions are in various threads, but I need to make a decision in the next very few days.

...

I will stop here so as not to overtax your patience, but if you can think of anything you might offer a complete novice it would be appreciated.

It's a complex topic and a lot to learn for first-time EV buyers. My advice if you're being pressured to make a decision that you are unprepared for, is to walk away from it, regroup, and do your homework.

What Nubo said. This is a complex topic, and a bunch of $$$. Regroup and do your homework, unless you are so very liquid in these uncertain times that you can afford to make a 5-figure mistake, and walk away with no long term damage to your financial security looking into retirement.

EVs are different in many, many ways. There is a lot to consider. We bought our Leaf SL Plus as an inexpensive way to learn about them, precisely because there is no substitute for hands on experience. That said, that was a year ago. We would not buy *any* car right now, unless our daily driver laid down and died outright. Even then, likely not, as we'd pay instead to have it repaired since it's not too old. YMMV. Good luck.

 

[alozzy]

The OP seems to have put in some time, effort, and thought already:

"... I have been reading on the subject for several months. My decision to purchase an electric car is partly predicated on costs of operation but also my willingness to pay a reasonable premium as my contribution to the environment ... I live in a Condo building having sold our house ... 90% + of my driving will be under 100 Km per day as I am retiring in a few months ..."

He sounds like a good candidate for an EV, but he should spend some more time understanding the EV options in Ontario as he's lucky to have more options than just LEAF vs Tesla Model 3...

The IONIQ Electric, with a 38 kWh pack, seems like a good fit for him, as does a standard range LEAF - if he's looking for something more budget friendly. An IONIQ is super efficient, so I would expect that even during winter he'll easily get 150 km range. It's also a big enough car for a retiree who will likely seldom have more than 1 passenger, or maybe some grand kids in the back seat.

Otherwise, if he wants more range and has a bigger budget, then a Kona Electric, Kia Niro, or Kia Soul EV, each with a 64 kWh pack, would be a good fit. He should get 275 km winter range with any of those cars (or with a LEAF Plus).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2cjKhkCqg

 

[LeftieBiker]

The reason that I discounted the 40kwh Leaf (and also the Ionic) is that when the weather gets really frigid, you're lucky to get 50% of the mild weather range, and heat pumps don't matter. Even 60% of the Ionic's range would be a little marginal. I was also allowing for degradation. With a 62KWH Leaf neither of those would ever be an issue.

 

[goldbrick]

^+1. My biggest surprise after 3 years of EV ownership is how much energy it takes to heat the inside of the car when it's really cold outside. ICE cars are relatively inefficient compared to EV's due to the amount of waste heat generated burning fuel but that waste heat comes in handy when the temps are well below freezing. This is very location specific of course, but since the OP in Canada it is certainly something to factor in.

Heat and steering wheel heaters go a long way to make things comfortable but the windshield still needs to be clear and since any battery is less efficient at cold temps and they all degrade with time, having a buffer of AHr's to start is safe bet.

 

[HerdingElectrons]

Also a bigger battery pack allows you to keep the vehicle at a lower SOC the vast majority of the time which helps preserve the long term health of the battery pack.

 

[powersurge]

I think the original poster has presented us with a very timely and complex question. I am referring to the fact that when a poster asks what car they should buy, we need to answer that question within the current world environment.

I have owned a Leaf from new for almost 6 years, and will keep it for as long as I can. However, I would not buy another new Leaf (or any EV) right now. EVs have become seriously over-priced, and underrepresented in car dealerships. Why would I pay a premium to buy an EV if dealers don't have them... And don't want them on their lots?

Not only that, but the Leaf (or any EV for that matter) has never grown in its market presence. Why own a low volume car when future replacement parts will be hard to get and expensive to buy?

This poster feels he has to make a "decision". Truth is, he does not HAVE to make a decision at this time. The American economy is in a state of limbo right now. I agree with another poster that they would not buy a new car at this time unless they suddenly had no car and needed transportation. I would not be in a pressure to buy a new car, and especially not a new EV in the next year. We do not know what the direction of the automotive industry will be in the near future, and especially what the evolution of EVs will be.

Also, the poster expects to pay "a premium" to help the environment. No one should feel they must "pay" to help the environment. Your personal behavior is not going to change anything. It is a drop in the ocean. You should make financial decisions based on your income and smart managing of your funds. If you want to help the environment - Take a bus or ride a bicycle. If you want to spend more or less $$$ that is your decision.

PS - NEVER BUY AN EXTENDED WARRANTY PLAN...

 

[Jimfastcar]

Many thoughtful responses, thanks all
Notably the post just above this one .....

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I apologize because I expect that all the answers to my questions are in various threads, but I need to make a decision in the next very few days.
This will be my first electric car and I have been reading on the subject for several months. My decision to purchase an electric car is partly predicated on costs of operation but also my willingness to pay a reasonable premium as my contribution to the environment.
I live in a Condo building having sold our house, but we have 4 public use indoor L2 chargers and I will be installing one in my parking spot.
I have a deposit and have ordered a Tesla Model Y, but frankly am getting cold feet at the $ 25.000 difference with the Leaf SL Plus, and the reality that 90% + of my driving will be under 100 Km per day as I am retiring in a few months. I am 67 and have had my share of excitement in my life, so no need to blaze down the highway and compete with the youngsters. Prefer to bank my hard earned money.
Long winded intro, my apologies.
1. Winters - I live in Oakville (Toronto) Canada - how much range can I expect to lose ?
2. Tesla's are wonderful and exciting cars, but having done a lot of reading on Forums, etc, they really are a work in progress. Even though I am reasonably comfortable with technology, I really dont want to spend a lot of time fussing - are Leaf's reasonably get in and go year after year ?
3. We will still keep an ICE car for my wife, perhaps a plug in Hybrid in future for the very occasional longer trip; but on the rare occasions I might want to go further afield with the Leaf, are there options along the lines of the Tesla super chargers, ie, high power / fast charging ?
4.I test drove a basic model today as that was the Demo of my local dealer, but I will want to get the top model with the creature comforts, any concerns or advice on this inclination ?
5. Should I get a longer term warranty plan ? Can I expect 100,000 Km reasonably trouble-free ? I have driven 4 Infiniti's for 20 years without any problem whatsoever.

I will stop here so as not to overtax your patience, but if you can think of anything you might offer a complete novice it would be appreciated.

1) Its not how much to expect, its really how much do you want to lose. Its all about your tolerance to cold. I am guessing you can handle it but your wife can't. Unfortunately, you will have to go with the lowest common denominator in this case. Add some snow and you could lose half your range.

2) All EVs (in our price range) are works in progress. Its all about which work in progress you can live with. Its really kinda funny. EVs touted as super simple, ¼ the number of moving parts and systems over ICE'rs but all seem to fail down "badly" in one area or another. Some are compromises on price, others are simply unfathomable. As far as "just drive it?" the LEAF does very well on that. Some feel charge management is a hassle. I don't really see that. Its really nothing to maintain an SOC that is not too high or too low. More range makes it that much easier.

3) You have several charging options and those options are still growing. Get Plugshare. Its an app for your phone. It shows you where stations are. Filter it to remove the stations you cant or wont use. www.plugshare.com

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.

5) "All" warranty plans are a bad idea no matter what car we are talking about. Now SEVERAL here will chime in about some POS they drove but you would have MUCH better odds of not a payoff but breaking even at a casino. The odds you are wasting your money is over 95%

 

[LeftieBiker]

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.

Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.

Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.

Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.

 

[powersurge]

4) Those options can really drive up the price. I opt to go the other way. The only thing I want is the surround view. The rest is not ready for prime time. I live in a mild climate so the hybrid heater isn't that much of a draw to me either.

Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.

Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.

Greetings Mr. Dave,

Could you please give more information on your statement of "seeing great deals"...."less than a nicely equipped S"?

Where are you seeing the prices? Are they actually advertised? Have you gone to the dealer and asked for prices?

The reason that I ask is that I have never heard of a dealer that would give a highly discounted price on a car before you are seriously negotiating the price of the car.

When I have casually gone to the dealer and asked for a price, they have always told me the sticker price, or maybe a small amount below sticker.

I would really like to know how a person finds those $5,000 to $10,000 discounts that I see people claim on this site??

Thanks Dave.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Around View is only available as part of the 2020 (not before) Tech Package on the SV. I don't remember if it is standard or optional (SL Tech Package) on the SL, but at any rate you can't get an otherwise un-optioned car with it.

Which is the reason I opted to go the other way. I get that some people want leather and what not but I never saw the allure and the price differences are extreme although I will say I am seeing great deals on 2019's right now and most of them are fully loaded versions but selling for less than a "nicely equipped" S Plus was going for 6 months ago.

Greetings Mr. Dave,

Could you please give more information on your statement of "seeing great deals"...."less than a nicely equipped S"?

Where are you seeing the prices? Are they actually advertised? Have you gone to the dealer and asked for prices?

The reason that I ask is that I have never heard of a dealer that would give a highly discounted price on a car before you are seriously negotiating the price of the car.

When I have casually gone to the dealer and asked for a price, they have always told me the sticker price, or maybe a small amount below sticker.

I would really like to know how a person finds those $5,000 to $10,000 discounts that I see people claim on this site??

Thanks Dave.

Closer to you than me! One FB post from Maryland indicates a good price.