EVSE Home Assessment Reports

[LEAFer]

What ? Do you have full time HOA staff ?

No, just nosy "stay at homes". Who the hell else would have time to be on a HOA board! :lol:

Dang! You should never vote a "stay at home" onto the HOA board ! They need to be "kept busy" and away from the neighborhood as many hours/days a week as possible

 

[JasonT]

Just got my assessment today.

How much ?

Sorry, just had the guy come to do the assessment, don't have the quote yet. If it's any different from what others are already reporting, I'll definitely post that info when I get it.

I think I'd rather double-check my HOA rules to confirm that they aren't concerned about anything installed inside my house, then simply not report to AV that an HOA is in the picture.

I ended up doing exactly this. The electrician that came out to my house today just called and said that he had forgotten to ask me if an HOA is involved. I was a little indirect in trying to reply and he just chuckled and told me that if the answer was "no" then it made his life simpler. So I just went ahead and told him that no, there is no HOA involved. I didn't involve them when I had my solar panels installed, and frankly I don't see why they would need to be involved with this either.

Moral of the story: A little lie might simplify your paperwork

 

[garygid]

We had a HOA for about 10 years, but it has not been visible for about the last 20 years.

 

[LEAFer]

Moral of the story: A little lie might simplify your paperwork

You did *NOT* lie. He asked " ... if an HOA is involved" ? No, they don't get "involved". He did not ask whether your property is subject to HOA rules (CC&Rs = Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) ... so ... the question (the way it is asked) is just as important as the answer :twisted:

 

[mwalsh]

Well, I've sent my form in with the following letter. Hopefully it will come back quickly, though we obviously don't expect any installations to take place until October:

"To Whom It May Concern:

Please find attached the original of a form from Aerovironment Inc. concerning HOA approval for the installation of a piece of electric vehicle charging equipment, commonly known as a Home Charging Dock.

Apparently, I must have this form signed by the HOA even if the installation occurs in a manner that would not normally require any HOA approval, as is the case with my own, and I would be appreciative of prompt action by the HOA and/or the Architectural Committee in this matter.

Although the form quotes a rather scary scenario in which “the installation may result in holes, drilling, concrete trenching to lay conduit….” etc, I wish to assure you that my own installation requires none of the above. In fact, the methodology I have already discussed with the installer requires no exterior modifications to our home at all. We are instead coming directly into the garage from behind the electrical service panel and mounting the charging dock to the garage interior.

Kindly consider this cover letter and the installation plan I outline in the previous paragraph a part of the request for approval, and if you have any questions about it, you may feel free to contact me be phone or email.

Otherwise, I will simply await you returning the signed form, which I would appreciate at your earliest convenience."

 

[hill]

What incentive do they have to negotiate? You want a car, you need their service.

What's to stop us from doing a group buy? $700 for the dock ... and you get your own buddy/electrician who owes you a favor! Heck, many locations now are set up for on line building permit applications too.

 

[Rat]

As a retired lawyer and condo owner (in an HOA) I am not surprised about the installers saying they won't take an indemnity from the owner as protection against the HOA. HOA jurisdiction is recorded in the county recorder's office and there is legal notice against the world. In other words, "ignorance of the law is no excuse." The electrician just doesn't want to pay a title company to do a title search so he asks the owner if there is a HOA. There are plenty of owners who would sign an indemnity whether out of general ignorance (i.e. they're not aware that they could end up paying for a lawyer and judgment for the electrician) or because they know they can't or won't have to back it up. E.g., people planning to file for bankruptcy, renters who only pretend to be owners getting installation without the owner's knowledge, anyone planning to move out of state in a year or so such as military or foreign workers, etc. You get the idea. The electrician who modifies the building without HOA approval can end up liable to the HOA if they decide the charger violates HOA CC&R's, or at the very least could end up having to defend a lawsuit even if they are not liable. Good luck trying to serve (or collect a judgment against) the veteran now living in Costa Rica on his military pension. I do NOT recommend lying as a strategy to avoid this, but that is not legal advice, just good advice.

 

[LEAFer]

Hmmm ... (no offense intended) ... it takes a lawyer to quickly change your point of view :lol:

(But it also makes you feel for the electrician (or someone like him) ... we certainly don't want THAT third party to get hurt. )

 

[mwalsh]

What's to stop us from doing a group buy? $700 for the dock ... and you get your own buddy/electrician who owes you a favor!

Mostly that they won't sell them to you.

 

[palmermd]

What homeowners association would dare to ban people from putting in an outlet in their garage to charge an EV? I just can't imagine the power trip some HOA president must be on to try and ban this. Any association with a board with half a brain would actually encourage this, not ban it.

 

[LEAFer]

Your "buddy/electrician who owes you a favor" can do the group buy ?! And he has a resale certificate ? And AV should not care whether he does a "standard $2,200 install" for each one he buys ?

 

[LEAFer]

What homeowners association would dare to ban people from putting in an outlet in their garage to charge an EV? I just can't imagine the power trip some HOA president must be on to try and ban this. Any association with a board with half a brain would actually encourage this, not ban it.

You might be surprised ... don't assume ... HOA and "common sense" together make an oxymoron !

 

[evnow]

I guess it depends on the HOA. My HOA is only interested in sending notices when I don't move the lawn ... I wouldn't have any problems getting them to give an ok. Infact I'd take this as an opportunity to talk to the architectural committee and do some evangelizing for EVs .... But I hear some HOAs are all too draconian.

It always surprises me that so many people have voluntarily given up liberties enshrined in the constitution for a piece of lawn in the suburb.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I guess it depends on the HOA. My HOA is only interested in sending notices when I don't move the lawn ... I wouldn't have any problems getting them to give an ok. Infact I'd take this as an opportunity to talk to the architectural committee and do some evangelizing for EVs .... But I hear some HOAs are all too draconian.

It always surprises me that so many people have voluntarily given up liberties enshrined in the constitution for a piece of lawn in the suburb.

Down here the term "HOA" pretty much refers to governing bodies over single family home developments. They don't have any jurisdiction what you do inside your house, except for some blatant things like running a convenience store or a toxic waste processing facility. They are mostly interested in outward appearance issues that can drag down the hood.

Condo boards that oversee multi-family structures might have more say so on something like an electrical matter.

 

[AndyH]

As a retired lawyer and condo owner (in an HOA) I am not surprised about the installers saying they won't take an indemnity from the owner as protection against the HOA. HOA jurisdiction is recorded in the county recorder's office and there is legal notice against the world. In other words, "ignorance of the law is no excuse." The electrician just doesn't want to pay a title company to do a title search so he asks the owner if there is a HOA. There are plenty of owners who would sign an indemnity whether out of general ignorance (i.e. they're not aware that they could end up paying for a lawyer and judgment for the electrician) or because they know they can't or won't have to back it up. E.g., people planning to file for bankruptcy, renters who only pretend to be owners getting installation without the owner's knowledge, anyone planning to move out of state in a year or so such as military or foreign workers, etc. You get the idea. The electrician who modifies the building without HOA approval can end up liable to the HOA if they decide the charger violates HOA CC&R's, or at the very least could end up having to defend a lawsuit even if they are not liable. Good luck trying to serve (or collect a judgment against) the veteran now living in Costa Rica on his military pension. I do NOT recommend lying as a strategy to avoid this, but that is not legal advice, just good advice.

Thanks for the sanity check, Rat. At the same time, it doesn't make sense that an HOA with zero influence on the INSIDE of a building would have a leg to stand on. While technically they 'could' what are the chances that they 'would' and then the additional chances that they'd 'win'?

As one of those veterans living (partially) on 'his military pension', I can confirm that when the attorney does his or her job correctly we can be served. The government knows where we live 24/7 365.

I don't recommend lying either. In order to 'color within the lines' we need to know where to lines are, however. In San Antonio, in the two areas in which I have a connection with an HOA, their arm can only touch the outside of the buildings (and they denied my request to install solar panels a number of years ago). I have to get their permission to hang an EVSE on the outside of the garage, but don't have to talk with them at all to rework the garage. Since they don't have jurisdiction on the inside, I'm not lying to an installer when they ask if we need HOA permission to install the EVSE.

Andy

 

[planet4ever]

I just had my assessment done by a man from Sprig Electric, a major electrical contractor in the SF Bay Area. I pointed out that there was an easy way the job could be done, putting a sub panel and the charging dock close to the meter, and a hard way, replacing our fully loaded breaker panel in the middle of the house and running a 40 foot line back to where the meter is. I made it clear that I could live with 120v charging, and I would reject the bid if it came back the hard way.

He explained that all he does is collect the facts and forward them to AeroVironment, which creates the estimate. He agreed with my analysis, but told me frankly he thought AV would come back with a high-priced custom bid. He even volunteered details (unofficially) as to how I could easily, safely, and inexpensively add a 20A 120v outlet myself on a dedicated circuit, right where I want it.

I'll wait to see what AV says, but I think it is very likely I will end up rejecting the bid, and just kissing the $100 assessment fee goodbye, unless I can negotiate with them. I still think the $100 may be a good investment as proof to Nissan that I am serious.

 

[LEAFer]

... He explained that all he does is collect the facts and forward them to AeroVironment, which creates the estimate. He agreed with my analysis, but told me frankly he thought AV would come back with a high-priced custom bid.

Thanks for that info ... wow! I am wondering how it's AV's business, though, to meddle in the contractor's business to this "n-th degree" ? :shock: It can't just be explained by "wanting to make sure the launch goes smoothly" :roll:

( I am also wondering a little less now about (the report on this forum somewhere of) a Tesla owner not permitting the assessor to take pictures ... )

 

[EVDRIVER]

... He explained that all he does is collect the facts and forward them to AeroVironment, which creates the estimate. He agreed with my analysis, but told me frankly he thought AV would come back with a high-priced custom bid.

Thanks for that info ... wow! I am wondering how it's AV's business, though, to meddle in the contractor's business to this "n-th degree" ? :shock: It can't just be explained by "wanting to make sure the launch goes smoothly" :roll:

( I am also wondering a little less now about (the report on this forum somewhere of) a Tesla owner not permitting the assessor to take pictures ... )

Standard instal is boiler plate. Expect a fixed fee paid to the electrical sub and they profit more on easy jobs and everyone points to the other for pricing excuses, this is a common method used to protect margins even when pricing is far above average.

 

[DaveEV]

Frankly, I think they are doing the Nissan Leaf customers a disservice if they plan on charging everyone around $2200 regardless of the complexity of the install as they appear to be doing.

Face it - a 20A 120V plug is dead cheap to install and will provide 1.9 kW of charging power allowing you to charge your Leaf from dead empty to full appx 12 hours. For a simple install, you will be able to get an electrician to install this for a couple hundred bucks in just about any garage that has a service panel in it. An EVSE that will plug in to this will be available for $500 or less by the time the Leaf comes out - worst case you live with the 1.4 kW trickle charger that's included and wait for AV to stop ripping people off thanks to competition. Service panels are more likely to have room for an additional single-pole circuit breaker - having room for a fixed double-pole is a lot less likely in any house more than 20 years old. And many garages may already be wired with a dedicated 20A 120V circuit.

Charge times with a 20A 120V EVSE won't be whole lot longer than the 8 hour full charge from the Level 2 3.3 kW charger and will be more than sufficient for the fast majority of uses. A charge rate of 7.6 miles/hour (1.9 kW) compared to 13.2 miles/hour just won't matter that much for most home use.

Now, if the Leaf was shipping with a 6.6 kW charger - then we might have a real incentive to install a fixed EVSE, but by that time I suspect that Level 2 EVSEs will just about be a commodity item - you'll be able to get them for a couple hundred bucks and have it installed for a couple hundred more.

 

[garygid]

Bids on complex installs like mine (trenching, new panel, service upgrade, etc.) will certainly be a LOT higher than the "easy-install" of $2200.