EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

[evnow]

They probably think most of the people will get installations done.

BTW, who paid for assessment training ... AV or installers ?

 

[garygid]

The "training" might only be a few sheets of instructions, and a badge.

 

[mwalsh]

The "training" might only be a few sheets of instructions, and a badge.

No, my guy said he attended a 4-hour course. Don't know who paid though.

 

[Boomer23]

Makes one wonder who is getting the non-refundable $100.
Did the on-line credit-card billing go to Nissan, or AeroVironment?

I hear that it went to AV...the electrical contractors have gotten nothing, yet.

Wait a moment. When we signed up to pay the $100 for the assessment, it was to go toward the install costs. I expected to see the $100 subtracted as already paid. I don't see that in the itemized charges on the Leafowner site.

Do you think it's possible that the $100 will be subtracted when we select the payment option?

I'm generally an accepting person, but I feel a little like I'm being led down the garden path, here.

 

[evnow]

Yes, it is supposed to go towards your install cost.

This discussion is really only in the unlikely event of the person not getting it installed after having the assessment done ...

 

[Rat]

They probably think most of the people will get installations done.
BTW, who paid for assessment training ... AV or installers ?

My guy said he had to attend an 8-hour course in Fremont where there were about 30 students. He has requested (and expects to get as a quid pro quo) an AV trainer to come to his business in SF and do it in 4 hours for a class of 15 since he has done them several favors (in doing assessments that they needed done). He said he has to pay the "students" who work for him regular time. AV pays nothing. He also said if this works out as expected (~90% of assessments will result in doing the work at the quoted price) he "will be a hero" in his office, but for now it is all overhead. This suggests there is a big profit margin on the installs.

 

[evnow]

This suggests there is a big profit margin on the installs.

Ofcourse, there is always a big margin on service/installs. Even if the installer spends 10 hours in installation and permits, he still gets $120/hour. More than what I can make as an IT professional. That is equivalent to a $250K / year salary - except he won't get 2,000 hours of work.

 

[Boomer23]

I had my assessment on the first day, July 1, and haven't heard anything back yet. So I called Nissan EV Customer Service this morning.

After the usual information exchange, I was connected to Aerovironment, someone named Sarah. She verified that they have my information on file, apologized for the delay vs the 72 hours that we are being told to expect. She said that the first batch of assessments are going through Nissan to be approved before being sent to the customer, and that is adding to the delay.

She said that I should be receiving my quote this week and to call back if I didn't. We also discussed the fact that mine might have been a bit more complex, including a request for a quote for a TOU meter option, so that might be adding to the delay.

Edit: She also said that actual requests for installation would begin in mid-September for October installations.

 

[evnow]

Here is one more source for evse - GE.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/13/ge-unveils-new-electric-car-charger-the-wattstation-w-video/

The GE WattStation will be commercially available globally in 2011, and a home version will be unveiled later this year.

 

[Danny]

She said that I should be receiving my quote this week and to call back if I didn't. We also discussed the fact that mine might have been a bit more complex, including a request for a quote for a TOU meter option, so that might be adding to the delay.

I had my assessment on July 7, but I wasn't really impressed. The guy who came wasn't an electrician and couldn't answer many of my questions. I also have not received my estimate and, therefore, have no idea what to expect. I haven't yet paid any money, but I guess that will be later. Unfortunately, there were so many possible variations on how I implement that I expect the estimate to be unusable. I will probably have to have a second estimate, especially if I get a second meter installed. I'm waiting for an answer back from SCE to determine cost and location of that meter.

 

[hill]

Paying $2,200 for a $700 charger may not be the only way to go:

http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/DEA-514?TNR=Brochures|DEA-514|generic

Looks like GE just raised the bar . . . hea hea hea
Heck, there's no rush, if the Leaf is only able to charge at 120v via aeroenvironment any way.

http://www.geindustrial.com/products/static/WattStation/
Be sure to check out the video, too.

 

[evnow]

Paying $2,200 for a $700 charger may not be the only way to go:

I already posted here. Ofcourse GE is known for inexpensive appliances :lol:

 

[planet4ever]

Paying $2,200 for a $700 charger may not be the only way to go:

http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/DEA-514?TNR=Brochures|DEA-514|generic

Looks like GE just raised the bar . . . hea hea hea

Gee, that looks to me like a "great" way to pay $2000 or more for a $700 charging dock, if anyone really wants to pay three times as much for the same function. Or do you really think GE will sell anything that fancy for under two grand? -- for the hardware alone (installation extra).

No, this might be a nice machine to have in a public location, but you're not going to find many hiding in private garages.

Heck, there's no rush, if the Leaf is only able to charge at 120v via aeroenvironment any way.

Huh? Where did that come from? The AV charging dock isn't 120v, it's 240v. And it will let the Leaf charge just as fast as your GE cutie. GE said 8 hours or 4 hours, but you won't see the 4 hour number - from GE or AV - until Nissan builds a 6.6kW charger inside the Leaf.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm now considering alternatives to the AV EVSE for a couple reasons:

1) The bull of the cost is labor

2) The unit has a max of 6.6kw and I plan on buying a second EV at some point and I am confident most on board chargers will be 7.2 kw or higher as we see already today so I only want to make one purchase.

3) Th AV EVSE looks a bit cheap compared to other models as if it were made as basic as possible for cost cutting.



With wholesale pricing, even if I spend about $3000 on a 9.2 kw model and get a 50% tax credit and do the installation myself, I'm only paying $400 more than the AV unit but I'm getting more output, future proofing, a proven design and a more industrial design based on what I have seen. Even the guy i spoke to doing the assessment thinks Nissan blew it with the 3.3kw charger and I have a feeling that will change but not for early buyers. Even my previous home EV chargers were 7.2 kw or more so using the AV box would not work for them. I see the AV EVSE as potentially obsolete for some buyers in the near future and a model S and other vehicles still interest me. Why pay $1100 after deductions to only get 3.3kw of charging, I predict that this ends up being one of the biggest Leaf issues/mistakes after the release and a big point of contention and resale value for those that buy gen1 vehicles once some users get miles under their belts. If Nissan offers a pack upgrade then gen 1 buyers are even worse off with such a small charger. The Think I owned that was built prior to 2000 only had a 10kw pack but a 4.8kw charger and no EVSE, just a cord with a tiny round plug about the size of a headphone jack that plugged in near the windshield washer, looked like and extension cord. I know I'm ranting but a 3.3kw charger is a total joke for the Leaf and I bet Nissan knows this now and it seriously limits reasonable opportunity charging and spending reasonable money on a limited EVSE built for a quick buck is beginning to feel like a potential waste of cash. If it were not for the 3.3kw charger and the weight creep, I would be 100% in on the Leaf. Besides, if I pul the plug at the last minute on the Leaf then I may be stuck with a 6.6kw EVSE and a EV purchase later that will be restricted to a product "matched" EVSE.

 

[palmermd]

I'm now considering alternatives to the AV EVSE for a couple reasons:

1) The bull of the cost is labor
2) The unit has a max of 6.6kw and I plan on buying a second EV at some point and I am confident most on board chargers will be 7.2 kw or higher as we see already today so I only want to make one purchase.
3) Th AV EVSE looks a bit cheap compared to other models as if it were made as basic as possible for cost cutting.



With wholesale pricing, even if I spend about $3000 on a 9.2 kw model and get a 50% tax credit and do the installation myself, I'm only paying $400 more than the AV unit but I'm getting more output, future proofing, a proven design and a more industrial design based on what I have seen. ... I may be stuck with a 6.6kw EVSE and a EV purchase later that will be restricted to a product "matched" EVSE.

These are my thoughts as well. Plus when the vehicle inlets are available to the public, I plan to put one on my existing EV that has a PFC40 onboard. I'd like the EVSE at home to be able to feed both/either car(s).

 

[LEAFer]

Buy a 16.8kW HPC from Tesla for $1,950, and a $250 (estimate) J1772 cable from ClipperCreek. Heck, they might even credit you the cost of the HPC's proprietary cable you don't need (or someone will buy it from you for another project).

 

[mwalsh]

I'm now considering alternatives to the AV EVSE for a couple reasons:

1) The bull of the cost is labor

Precisely! Freudian slip.

 

[AndyH]

Buy a 16.8kW HPC from Tesla for $1,950, and a $250 (estimate) J1772 cable from ClipperCreek. Heck, they might even credit you the cost of the HPC's proprietary cable you don't need (or someone will buy it from you for another project).

Tesla's not J1772 though, is it?

 

[LEAFer]

Buy a 16.8kW HPC from Tesla for $1,950, and a $250 (estimate) J1772 cable from ClipperCreek. Heck, they might even credit you the cost of the HPC's proprietary cable you don't need (or someone will buy it from you for another project).

Tesla's not J1772 though, is it?

It's a Clipper Creek unit that has a J1772 sticker, so I believe the signalling is J1772 compliant. The connector at the end is Tesla proprietary. Also note that Tesla was working with the committee and is ( I am told ) the party responsible for getting the spec up to 80A.
ClipperCreek's TS-unit link: here
The PDF on this CC unit says "J1772 coupler", but the reason for suggesting purchase from Tesla is the price. I don't know what's going on there (volume ? it's not that high) ... but IIRC, CC wants $3,000 last I heard, so you can save $1,050 right there :shock: but then you need the J1772 coupler.

 

[AndyH]

Buy a 16.8kW HPC from Tesla for $1,950, and a $250 (estimate) J1772 cable from ClipperCreek. Heck, they might even credit you the cost of the HPC's proprietary cable you don't need (or someone will buy it from you for another project).

Tesla's not J1772 though, is it?

It's a Clipper Creek unit that has a J1772 sticker, so I believe the signalling is J1772 compliant. The connector at the end is Tesla proprietary. Also note that Tesla was working with the committee and is ( I am told ) the party responsible for getting the spec up to 80A.
ClipperCreek's TS-unit link: here
The PDF on this CC unit says "J1772 coupler", but the reason for suggesting purchase from Tesla is the price. I don't know what's going on there (volume ? it's not that high) ... but IIRC, CC wants $3,000 last I heard, so you can save $1,050 right there :shock: but then you need the J1772 coupler.

Tesla was on the streets before the Jan 2010 J1772 was ratified. The EVSE 'law of the land' prior to that was the Oct 1996 J1772 which is different and deprecated for new vehicles.

Tesla IS part of the current J1772 task force, and they will likely have to convert their charging to the current J1772 system. Prices on the old adapter kits should drop significantly once they're only usable on older model cars...