Ford Focus EV

[Mx5racer]

"I am thinking Geek squad will install for $1499 if the 240v outlet is already in position. Or help you get an electrician to install such 240v outlet at the consumers additional cost. Leviton just plugs in after all."

Yes they will attach to the wall and plug it in, after you have someone else run the wires and put on the plug

 

[EVDRIVER]

I like to test drive and see but it is to late for me my car will be here in a few weeks. I like the looks but Ford and GM do not have the fast DC charge Port. I am hopeful Nissan will upgrade for free or cheap upgrade the 3.3kw to 6.6kw charger. When you are are out and about the 3.3kw charger is useless unless you are at a 2 hr movie or such event.:evil:

No way for free and if they offer an upgrade I would expect it to be at least $2500. Chargers are not cheap and OEM auto parts are even worse. Don't expect an affordable upgrade but do expect a larger charger to be stock later.

 

[smkettner]

I have realized why some of these people don't like Leaf. It doesn't have a grill.

Good point, its also the main reason the front of the Coda looks so odd.. perhaps there is a market for a stick-on grill decal

Why a decal? There are plenty of chrome, stainless, painted grills made for trucks to have a custom look... why not Leaf?

Volt grill is not much to look at either.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I like to test drive and see but it is to late for me my car will be here in a few weeks. I like the looks but Ford and GM do not have the fast DC charge Port. I am hopeful Nissan will upgrade for free or cheap upgrade the 3.3kw to 6.6kw charger. When you are are out and about the 3.3kw charger is useless unless you are at a 2 hr movie or such event.:evil:

I really think Nissan bet on the wrong horse with DC Quick Charge. I don't expect to see more than one or two in the next three years, yet 6kW L2 is something you could take advantage of anywhere.

 

[DarkStar]

I really think Nissan bet on the wrong horse with DC Quick Charge. I don't expect to see more than one or two in the next three years, yet 6kW L2 is something you could take advantage of anywhere.

But here in a couple of years, I'll be able to buy a 12kW DC Quick Charger that will plug into my LEAF's CHAdeMO port for about $4,000. No mods, no hassle!

 

[EVDRIVER]

I really think Nissan bet on the wrong horse with DC Quick Charge. I don't expect to see more than one or two in the next three years, yet 6kW L2 is something you could take advantage of anywhere.

But here in a couple of years, I'll be able to buy a 12kW DC Quick Charger that will plug into my LEAF's CHAdeMO port for about $4,000. No mods, no hassle!

A 7.2 kw onboard would have been better for the majority of consumers. Since the LEAF is not really a fleet vehicle design L2 is not as practical.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I really think Nissan bet on the wrong horse with DC Quick Charge. I don't expect to see more than one or two in the next three years, yet 6kW L2 is something you could take advantage of anywhere.

But here in a couple of years, I'll be able to buy a 12kW DC Quick Charger that will plug into my LEAF's CHAdeMO port for about $4,000. No mods, no hassle!

I wouldn't buy it. Home is where I'm the most patient, and a 12kW charger would probably take up most of your trunk.. it's not something I would haul around and set up at an L2 parking space.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I really think Nissan bet on the wrong horse with DC Quick Charge. I don't expect to see more than one or two in the next three years, yet 6kW L2 is something you could take advantage of anywhere.

But here in a couple of years, I'll be able to buy a 12kW DC Quick Charger that will plug into my LEAF's CHAdeMO port for about $4,000. No mods, no hassle!

I wouldn't buy it. Home is where I'm the most patient, and a 12kW charger would probably take up most of your trunk.. it's not something I would haul around and set up at an L2 parking space.

You can get a 12kw charger now that in smaller than two shoe boxes. Why do people keep assuming they are so large?

$3500- The PFC50 weighs 32.8 pounds and resides in a box that is 19.5 x 10.5 x 6.5 inches. 18kw the same size.

 

[walterbays]

I have realized why some of these people don't like Leaf. It doesn't have a [prominent*] grill.

Yeah, cars without grills are so uncool

*(Yes, evdriver is right, they all have some sort of grill.)

 

[EVDRIVER]

All those cars have grills although small. So does the LEAF.

 

[evnow]

*(Yes, evdriver is right, they all have some sort of grill.)

I think we have come to expect "animal" looking cars with 2 "eyes" (lights) and a "mouth" (grill). Notice how all the imagined alians normally have these too.

 

[Herm]

But here in a couple of years, I'll be able to buy a 12kW DC Quick Charger that will plug into my LEAF's CHAdeMO port for about $4,000. No mods, no hassle!

I wouldn't buy it. Home is where I'm the most patient, and a 12kW charger would probably take up most of your trunk.. it's not something I would haul around and set up at an L2 parking space.

Groundloop, a 12kw DC charger using the chademo port would sit on the wall of your garage.. thus I dont care how big it will be.. and no reason it should be $4k, much less I would hope.

 

[DarkStar]

I wouldn't buy it. Home is where I'm the most patient, and a 12kW charger would probably take up most of your trunk.. it's not something I would haul around and set up at an L2 parking space.

You can get a 12kw charger now that in smaller than two shoe boxes. Why do people keep assuming they are so large?

$3500- The PFC50 weighs 32.8 pounds and resides in a box that is 19.5 x 10.5 x 6.5 inches. 18kw the same size.

My reference to it being at home was just an example. I could see them being used as a "pay to park and charge" type station in various locations. It would certainly be a lot cheaper than the $17k ones Nissan is selling and more people would probably find a 2 hour-100 mile charge a lot more palatable than what Level 2 can offer.

 

[TimeHorse]

Well, as I have the 19.2kW capable EVSE in the garage now, I'd say any increase in charger size is a good thing; though thinking about it this morning, I would guess part of the charger's work would be in the BMS firmware of the LEAF so it's not just a question of popping out the 3.3kW and sticking in the 6.6kW or the 7.2kW or the 14.4kW or the 19.2kW, it's a matter also of updating the BMS firmware to support charging at those rates. Of course, I'm only guessing and if a rectifier could be build to simulate the Pilot of the J1772 and plug into the ChaDeMo on the LEAF, I suppose I could use my Clipper Creek CS-100 more fully, all be it in a non-factory approved way.

20kW charging for everyone!

 

[DarkStar]

Of course, I'm only guessing and if a rectifier could be build to simulate the Pilot of the J1772 and plug into the ChaDeMo on the LEAF, I suppose I could use my Clipper Creek CS-100 more fully, all be it in a non-factory approved way.

CHAdeMO uses the CAN-bus for all signaling, no J1772 here. Also, the input on the CHAdeMO port must be DC as the internal charger is bypassed, so your Clipper Creek won't be able to be used...

 

[TimeHorse]

Of course, I'm only guessing and if a rectifier could be build to simulate the Pilot of the J1772 and plug into the ChaDeMo on the LEAF, I suppose I could use my Clipper Creek CS-100 more fully, all be it in a non-factory approved way.

CHAdeMO uses the CAN-bus for all signaling, no J1772 here. Also, the input on the CHAdeMO port must be DC as the internal charger is bypassed, so your Clipper Creek won't be able to be used...

The point was to a) generate the false pilot to request maximum charge, then b) run it through a rectifier to convert the Alternating Current to a Direct Current and step it up to 480V, then c) generate the false CAM signal to have the unit masquerade as a ChaDeMo unit and d) if there's a feedback signal to throttle the current, feed it back to the fake pilot signal to cause the EVSE to also throttle.

Of course, easy to describe, difficult in practice! But clearly a) has been done for the previous generation of EV drivers to convert J1772 back into a NEMA 6-40R IIRC and most devices have some form of rectifier to go from AC to DC, all be it this requiring a current step-up rather than step-down in Voltage; but this can be done at the sacrifice of overall current / Amperage. c) and d) seem the hardest but if they could do a) I'm sure they could do c) and d).

IMHO, although it's well beyond me to do this, it's only a matter of when, not if it will be done.

Mind you, if ChaDeMo isn't the standard, all this becomes a lot harder.

 

[garygid]

Actually, the EVSE does not throttle the current, so it cannot do d), which is the current "regulation", which, along with voltage and current "smoothing" (reducing "ripple"), are the hardest parts.

QC is AC in, regulated and controlled DC current out, in response to the car's commands.

We do not yet have access to the "commands" and "responses" used between the QC and the car's charging control system.

 

[jlaw99]

Quote from other post:

"I also have a short post comparing these three to the respective competitors. One of the snaps I made for the post ...
"
http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/01/ford-takes-on-3-competitors-with-3.html

[/quote]

My comment: This side by side helps me understand why I like the looks of the Focus - the wheels look more premium. The smaller leaf wheels (although likely more efficient) give the Leaf a more "budget car" look.... Maybe this is a subconsious perception that will change along with attitudes about what is desirable, but right now I look at the bigger wheels and sense there is more value somehow...

 

[evnow]

My comment: This side by side helps me understand why I like the looks of the Focus - the wheels look more premium. The smaller leaf wheels (although likely more efficient) give the Leaf a more "budget car" look.... Maybe this is a subconsious perception that will change along with attitudes about what is desirable, but right now I look at the bigger wheels and sense there is more value somehow...

One thing to note is that Focus EV pictures are from pre-production and usually change.

I think the big difference is in the back - if they had continued the roof a little further before falling off, Leaf would have looked better.

BTW, one of the reasons people think Prius did well compared to competitors is that it had a unique look not shared by a non-hybrid Toyota. Will Focus EV suffer because it looks exactly like Focus ?

 

[LEAFfan]

My comment: This side by side helps me understand why I like the looks of the Focus - the wheels look more premium. The smaller leaf wheels (although likely more efficient) give the Leaf a more "budget car" look.... Maybe this is a subconsious perception that will change along with attitudes about what is desirable, but right now I look at the bigger wheels and sense there is more value somehow...

Is that 'more value' worth $40K? That's the price that was speculated in some article I had read. If that's the cost, I'll stay with the LEAF. I would love to know though what the VW Golf E-Motion is going to cost.