**** BS ****WetEV said:People in moderate climates, most of the USA, should be able to exceed the warranty easily.
And we should remember that the warranty kicks in ~ 63% of new ... at least until Nissan decides on something different
**** BS ****WetEV said:People in moderate climates, most of the USA, should be able to exceed the warranty easily.
I believe both Tesla and GM have batteries that will be at 80%+ at 10 years.WetEV said:SageBrush said:An expectation of 80% new capacity for at least 10 years, but 15 years would be a lot more reasonable.
In Arizona, eh? Why not also ask for a flying car?.
smkettner said:I believe both Tesla and GM have batteries that will be at 80%+ at 10 years.
My RAV4-EV would easily exceed the EPA ratings even as temperatures near freezing and 60,000 miles on the odometer. Likewise if the GOM said 130 miles you could drive 120 miles and the GOM was at 10 miles +- 5 miles.WetEV said:With any EV, anyone relying on something "approaching the EPA reported EV range" is going to find unpleasant surprises. Listen to Uncle Sean!
The question is why doesn't Nissan offer this?WetEV said:smkettner said:I believe both Tesla and GM have batteries that will be at 80%+ at 10 years.
Which is why GM's warranty is 8 years/100k miles and 60%.
Why didn't GM give a 20 year warranty to 60%, or something like that?
Perhaps for the same reason that Tesla does not either, or Toyota warrants their products for way under 10 years.WetEV said:smkettner said:I believe both Tesla and GM have batteries that will be at 80%+ at 10 years.
Which is why GM's warranty is 8 years/100k miles and 60%.
Why didn't GM give a 20 year warranty to 60%, or something like that?
Yes, that turned out to be a large part of it, but here at the beginning of the foothills of the Sierra we still get scorched during many a summer day and that takes a big toll.WetEV said:Battery likely replaced due to BMS reporting issue.
SageBrush said:**** BS ****WetEV said:People in moderate climates, most of the USA, should be able to exceed the warranty easily.
And we should remember that the warranty kicks in ~ 63% of new ... at least until Nissan decides on something different
SageBrush said:The important distinction is that Nissan designs products to meet the warranty period while decent manufacturers engineer products to last much longer. I know this for two reasons: a wealth of reports, and Nissan's behavior towards customers just out of warranty.
One day, [Henry] Ford sent some of his employees to car junkyards, with instructions to examine the condition of the remaining parts in Model T Fords that had been junked. The employees brought back the apparently disappointing news that almost all components showed signs of wear. The sole exceptions were the kingpins, which remained virtually unworn. To the employees’ surprise, Ford, instead of expressing pride in his well-made kingpins, declared that the kingpins were overbuilt, and that in the future they should be made more cheaply. Ford’s conclusion may violate our ideal of pride in workmanship, but it made economic sense; he had indeed been wasting money on long-lasting kingpins that outlasted the cars in which they were installed.
Of course Nissan is doing the exact opposite of Henry. Henry built a great car and then found where he could save costs.WetEV said:SageBrush said:The important distinction is that Nissan designs products to meet the warranty period while decent manufacturers engineer products to last much longer. I know this for two reasons: a wealth of reports, and Nissan's behavior towards customers just out of warranty.
Henry Ford send people to junkyards to find out what Model-T parts had not worn out. So he could make those parts cheaper.
One day, [Henry] Ford sent some of his employees to car junkyards, with instructions to examine the condition of the remaining parts in Model T Fords that had been junked. The employees brought back the apparently disappointing news that almost all components showed signs of wear. The sole exceptions were the kingpins, which remained virtually unworn. To the employees’ surprise, Ford, instead of expressing pride in his well-made kingpins, declared that the kingpins were overbuilt, and that in the future they should be made more cheaply. Ford’s conclusion may violate our ideal of pride in workmanship, but it made economic sense; he had indeed been wasting money on long-lasting kingpins that outlasted the cars in which they were installed.
If Nissan is truly designing the battery to just barely meet the warranty in Phoenix, AZ, then the battery will last about twice the warranty in a place that is closer to US average. Battery life depends on on temperature, roughly following an Arrhenius relationship, with life doubling for about every 10C reduction in temperature.
smkettner said:Nissan is building a minimum standard battery and BMS from the get go. Then attempting some slight improvements to minimize warranty costs.
smkettner said:Henry built a great car and then found where he could save costs.
smkettner said:Nissan is building a minimum standard battery and BMS from the get go. Then attempting some slight improvements to minimize warranty costs.
I will build a car for the great multitude. It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for. It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise. But it will be so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one – and enjoy with his family the blessing of hours of pleasure in God's great open spaces.
goldbrick said:smkettner said:Nissan is building a minimum standard battery and BMS from the get go. Then attempting some slight improvements to minimize warranty costs.
And that is exactly what some people want, myself included. I don't need a Porsche 911T or whatever to do my commute and around town driving. I couldn't care less about my 0-60 time or if I can do 300 miles on a single charge. The Leaf is what it is. If it doesn't suit your needs then don't buy one.
Don't we wish. The design is for the battery to last the duration of the warranty in a moderate climate.WetEV said:If Nissan is truly designing the battery to just barely meet the warranty in Phoenix, AZ, .
Of course, and the same is true for the LEAF. The problem here is owning a low volume, niche car. Expect the same to be true for the Bolt.cwerdna said:Back to used S, one problem is that once out of warranty, they can become money pits too.
Indeed, but therein lies the problem. Only a small minority of its buyers in the US realize they are buying a piece of crap.goldbrick said:The Leaf is what it is.
SageBrush said:Of course, and the same is true for the LEAF. The problem here is owning a low volume, niche car. Expect the same to be true for the Bolt.
As I have written before, the Model 3 has the best chance of escaping that trap due to its volume sales.
I shared your reasoning up until recently, and I'm sure it will turn out to be true some of the time. The threads about inner tie rod replacement were my first hint that replacement parts are not the simple matter we hope for, and of course that is just the mechanical parts that rarely need replacement in our low mileage cars.golfcart said:SageBrush said:Of course, and the same is true for the LEAF. The problem here is owning a low volume, niche car. Expect the same to be true for the Bolt.
As I have written before, the Model 3 has the best chance of escaping that trap due to its volume sales.
Aren't all Leaf to date on the same chassis? I have to imagine that all 130,000 sold share quite a few parts and that there will be a decent used part market out there especially with early models seeing large battery degradation. I would have to also think that the Leaf shares parts with other high volume Nissan cars like the Sentra or Versa as well... it would be silly not to.
If I go to the Autozone website and put a 2015 Leaf S in there I get $25 brake pads, $50 rotors, $99 struts... where are you seeing the high costs?
I honestly don't know that much because in 3.5 years of ownership I have only had to replace tires and windshield wiper blades.
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