Leafs giving Leafs a bad name !!

[GRA]

In California it is illegal, as the cite from the CVC I posted above shows.

I don't think that section would apply to someone doing 55 in an HOV lane in a 65 zone when the regular lanes are going less than 55 mph. If nobody is going above 55 mph, how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is above 55 mph?

As to the OP, the roads are shared. If we're driving in a 65 mph zone, and the regular lanes are moving at less than 55 mph, why should your desire to drive 65mph or 75mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to drive 55 mph in the HOV lane? I agree that if the regular lanes are going 55 mph or more, I should just move out of the HOV lane.

Personally, I think we should reinstate the 55mph speed limit.

Cheers, Wayne

Your interpretation is wrong - there is no exclusion for being in an HOV lane.

As for 55 mph speed limits, you are entitled to your opinion, but since the 55 mph national speed limit was the most widely despised and ignored federal law this country has ever seen, not excluding Prohibition, I suspect you'll be waiting a very long time for that to happen.

 

[GRA]

I think GRA was referring to driving 55 in a 55 zone (in the middle lane) while other traffic if flowing at 70mph.

In AndyGT02's post that GRA replied to, AndyGT02 says when driving 55 mph he drives "usually in the right lane, but sometimes in the middle if the right is jammed." If he's passing people in the right lane, the CVC section doesn't apply; the relevant language is "except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction".

Cheers, Wayne

Correct. But that's not the case in the HOV lanes: if the flow of traffic speed is higher than you are driving, then you have no business being there. Either speed up, or get out of the lane. It is much easier (and legal) to move over right away in NorCal than SoCal, because we don't have double yellow lines and limited entrance/exit points here (NorCal). In SoCal, you're expected to drive so as not to be overtaken. If you aren't willing to drive as fast as necessary, then stay out of the HOV lane.

 

[wwhitney]

Your interpretation is wrong - there is no exclusion for being in an HOV lane.

If you read my posts closely, I don't believe I have said anything wrong. The law you quoted applies when you are the slowest vehicle around and aren't in the right lane. It doesn't apply when (a) you're going 55mph in the HOV lane and all the other lanes are going slower than 55 mph and (b) when you're going 55 mph in the middle lane and the right lane is going slower.

In case (a) how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is faster than 55 mph? You can't, nobody is going faster than 55 mph. In case (b) the law has an exception "when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction," which you would be doing if the right lane is going slower than you.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Correct. But that's not the case in the HOV lanes: if the flow of traffic speed is higher than you are driving, then you have no business being there.

I agree and haven't said otherwise.

If you aren't willing to drive as fast as necessary, then stay out of the HOV lane.

I agree, where "as necessary" means "faster than all the other lanes," not "the speed limit" or "as fast as the guy behind me would like to go."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[GRA]

Your interpretation is wrong - there is no exclusion for being in an HOV lane.

If you read my posts closely, I don't believe I have said anything wrong. The law you quoted applies when you are the slowest vehicle around and aren't in the right lane. It doesn't apply when (a) you're going 55mph in the HOV lane and all the other lanes are going slower than 55 mph and (b) when you're going 55 mph in the middle lane and the right lane is going slower.

In case (a) how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is faster than 55 mph? You can't, nobody is going faster than 55 mph. In case (b) the law has an exception "when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction," which you would be doing if the right lane is going slower than you.

Cheers, Wayne

Uh, no, if people are overtaking you in the HOV lane, then regardless of what your speed is you're going too slowly, and have to move over or speed up. You are, by definition, "impeding traffic" if you are being overtaken and there's no legal way for someone to pass you. In any case, I think we've strayed rather far from the basic point of the topic, which can be summarized as "don't be a dick." That doing so is also illegal, at least in California, is a side issue.

 

[jpadc]

Well, lucked out and found the one I was thinking of: https://energycenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/nav/transportation/cvrp/survey-results/California_Plug-in_Electric_Vehicle_Driver_Survey_Results-May_2013.pdf

Thanks for sharing, its really interesting... but its only half the story. Measuring why the people who did not buy such a vehicle, didn't. Did they hold negative views of the vehicles relating to the "special privileges" and did that discourage them from buying one? However, its clearly not something most in this thread want to discuss

 

[Sondy132001]

Your interpretation is wrong - there is no exclusion for being in an HOV lane.

If you read my posts closely, I don't believe I have said anything wrong. The law you quoted applies when you are the slowest vehicle around and aren't in the right lane. It doesn't apply when (a) you're going 55mph in the HOV lane and all the other lanes are going slower than 55 mph and (b) when you're going 55 mph in the middle lane and the right lane is going slower.

In case (a) how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is faster than 55 mph? You can't, nobody is going faster than 55 mph. In case (b) the law has an exception "when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction," which you would be doing if the right lane is going slower than you.

Cheers, Wayne

Uh, no, if people are overtaking you in the HOV lane, then regardless of what your speed is you're going too slowly, and have to move over or speed up. You are, by definition, "impeding traffic" if you are being overtaken and there's no legal way for someone to pass you. In any case, i think we've strayed rather far from the basic point of the topic, which can be summarized as "don't be a dick." That doing so is also illegal, at least in California, is a side issue.[b/]

Haha thank you :lol:

 

[wwhitney]

Uh, no, if people are overtaking you in the HOV lane, then regardless of what your speed is you're going too slowly, and have to move over or speed up.

I agree with you that if there are two HOV lanes and you are in the leftmost and getting passed on the right, you should move over to the right. In the situation I described, there is one HOV lane, and you are going faster than every other lane. Therefore, no one is overtaking you.

In any case, I think we've strayed rather far from the basic point of the topic, which can be summarized as "don't be a dick."

Indeed, don't tailgate the person legally going 55mph in the HOV lane when all the other lanes are going slower. Be happy you aren't stuck in the other lanes.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[RonDawg]

I think people here have missed a subtle but important point. The OP is in southern California. You can see in the original photo the divider between the HOV lane and the others. Until I got stuck in one of those on a visit down there I didn't realize that HOV lanes there are different from the ones here in Northern California. Up here, the lane next to the HOV lane is separated only by a single painted stripe. In southern Cal, there is a physical raised barrier separating them and cars can only get in and out of the HOV lane at a few points miles apart. I was unaware of this and had to drive over that barrier to make my exit and it wasn't something I want to do my car again.

The importance is that where the OP is, the danger of another car jumping in front from a standstill is almost nil, while up here where I am, it happens all the time.

Actually, that is not true. While the double-double yellow lines makes it legally a hard barrier,with a very expensive fine if caught doing so except at designated points, physically all that divides the lanes here where the OP took this photo is just some paint. Only in a few areas (like the 91 Express Lanes) is there a physical barrier between the HOV and non-HOV lanes...and Sondy already mentioned how her friend got into an accident on that freeway when someone decided to go through that barrier, which is little more than a line of plastic delineators.

Based on these clues from the photo, this appears to be on the northbound I-405 between University and Culver:

• OP living in Mission Viejo, giving me a starting reference area
• "Culver Dr Right Lane" sign
• Relatively narrow overpass (Yale Ave pedestrian overpass)
• Dirt center median, extremely rare along a heavily-traveled freeway (usually filled in with additional lanes)

Pull up this area on Google Street View and you'll see there is no hard barrier at all. The double-double yellow lines do end right before the overpass though, so if the front Leaf didn't move over at that point, shame on him or her.

 

[sub3marathonman]

I love my leaf, but if you're driving in the carpool and going 55, you're a douchebag ! Some clown, in a Leaf was doing 55 in the car pool lane with no one in front of him and about 30 of us behind him ! Just plain rude ! Don't be that guy ! I hear it from my friends all the time abut electric cars going slow in the carpool lane, just sit in traffic if you don't want to do the speed limit !

I commend Sondy132001 pointing out how rude some LEAF drivers can be.

She says people can "sit in traffic" if they don't want to go the speed limit, which in this case is stated as 65 mph. The "douchebag" / "clown" (her words) driving the LEAF she photographed was doing 55, and even though it appears that there was a vehicle not too far in front, and even though he was in the lane legally, he should have moved out of the way and slowed to a crawl in the non-HOV traffic, so she could make up the "5 miles" (LOL, probably more like 100 feet) to the car in front of the 55 mph LEAF blocking her.

The difference between 65mph and 55 mph is 10.2 seconds per mile. So even with that "5 mile" (LOL) stretch, it would have been not even one minute saved. I'm thinking she's already spent more than that raging here in the LEAF forum.

But wait, Sondy132001 bought her LEAF to save time for her, so everybody else should get out of her way. Obviously the traffic laws don't apply to her unless the police are around, as she got caught switching from the non-HOV lanes to the HOV lanes and got a $682 ticket (since she knows the fine is double for going "over 2 sets of yellow lines (4 all together)") and doing this despite knowing that "a guy drove over them to cut into the HOV lane and nailed my buddy in his Range Rover." So as several prudent drivers here have already pointed out, people like her are part of the reason that the "clown" in the LEAF in front might not be doing more than 55 mph in the 65 mph zone. Also, I'm thinking she wanted to go 80, not 65, so she could save TWO minutes instead of one by being in front of the slow LEAF guy.

If she really wants to spend more time with her family, she might want to heed the laws of the State of California AND the laws of physics. It might be prudent too, instead of snapping pictures with her smartphone, which is from my understanding illegal to do while driving under California law, and instead concentrate on driving and arriving alive both for her and for everybody else she is endangering.

My story is driving 55 mph on a Honda Rebel 250, not a car in sight with three lanes open and me in the right lane, speed limit 65 mph, some "clown" comes driving up in the lane at 80 mph. I give the Rebel everything it has, and get up to 60 in the few seconds I had, he swerves into the other lane, starts losing control and comes back into my lane, where I lean into his fender and his tire scrapes the boot I'm wearing, it throws the chain, and I coast to a stop on the side of the road. He stops a bit further down the road. It turns out that the only reason I wasn't killed as he drove 80 mph while reading a map was that his girlfriend screamed just before he was going to hit me, and the junky car he was driving had thin sheetmetal so instead of knocking me off it put a huge dent in the fender. Somebody must have called the police and it was very impressive to see how fast that ambulance came screaming up the road knowing a motorcycle was involved. They were all incredulous when they heard what had happened and that I hadn't been splattered over the road.

 

[Sondy132001]

You absolutely do NOT know what you are talking about. Do you live in Southern California ? Most likely not. I live 16 miles from my job, the I-5 and I-405 are in the top 3 shittiest freeways in So Cal, the 91 being first. I sat in my regular car for 7 years on these freeways, taking me 45-60 mins each way. I don't pass farmer brown or maybe 30 cars on my way to work, I pass 1,000's when in the carpool lane. A lane that was designed to pat people on the back for carpooling or in my case who drive electric cars. I don't care if I was the only one in that lane, it's 65 MPH on the freeway, not 55 not 45 not even 70 like it is on I-15 to San Diego and Las Vegas. 65MPH.

There was no one in front of him, by all your logic if they are going 5-25mph in the other lanes next to me I should do that ?? Uh NO The MPH is 65, that's what you are supposed to be doing regardless of the lanes next to you, there is a double yellow line which means DO NOT go over this line and it's double the fine because there are 2 sets. If they go over and hit you ? that's just an added on stupidity on their part and a HUGE fine. You see people who do it but considering the amount of people on the freeway it's a small margin.

And by the way, you're Rude. I was not speaking to you, so go climb back under your rock.

I love my leaf, but if you're driving in the carpool and going 55, you're a douchebag ! Some clown, in a Leaf was doing 55 in the car pool lane with no one in front of him and about 30 of us behind him ! Just plain rude ! Don't be that guy ! I hear it from my friends all the time abut electric cars going slow in the carpool lane, just sit in traffic if you don't want to do the speed limit !

I commend Sondy132001 pointing out how rude some LEAF drivers can be.

She says people can "sit in traffic" if they don't want to go the speed limit, which in this case is stated as 65 mph. The "douchebag" / "clown" (her words) driving the LEAF she photographed was doing 55, and even though it appears that there was a vehicle not too far in front, and even though he was in the lane legally, he should have moved out of the way and slowed to a crawl in the non-HOV traffic, so she could make up the "5 miles" (LOL, probably more like 100 feet) to the car in front of the 55 mph LEAF blocking her.

The difference between 65mph and 55 mph is 10.2 seconds per mile. So even with that "5 mile" (LOL) stretch, it would have been not even one minute saved. I'm thinking she's already spent more than that raging here in the LEAF forum.

But wait, Sondy132001 bought her LEAF to save time for her, so everybody else should get out of her way. Obviously the traffic laws don't apply to her unless the police are around, as she got caught switching from the non-HOV lanes to the HOV lanes and got a $682 ticket (since she knows the fine is double for going "over 2 sets of yellow lines (4 all together)") and doing this despite knowing that "a guy drove over them to cut into the HOV lane and nailed my buddy in his Range Rover." So as several prudent drivers here have already pointed out, people like her are part of the reason that the "clown" in the LEAF in front might not be doing more than 55 mph in the 65 mph zone. Also, I'm thinking she wanted to go 80, not 65, so she could save TWO minutes instead of one by being in front of the slow LEAF guy.

If she really wants to spend more time with her family, she might want to heed the laws of the State of California AND the laws of physics. It might be prudent too, instead of snapping pictures with her smartphone, which is from my understanding illegal to do while driving under California law, and instead concentrate on driving and arriving alive both for her and for everybody else she is endangering.

My story is driving 55 mph on a Honda Rebel 250, not a car in sight with three lanes open and me in the right lane, speed limit 65 mph, some "clown" comes driving up in the lane at 80 mph. I give the Rebel everything it has, and get up to 60 in the few seconds I had, he swerves into the other lane, starts losing control and comes back into my lane, where I lean into his fender and his tire scrapes the boot I'm wearing, it throws the chain, and I coast to a stop on the side of the road. He stops a bit further down the road. It turns out that the only reason I wasn't killed as he drove 80 mph while reading a map was that his girlfriend screamed just before he was going to hit me, and the junky car he was driving had thin sheetmetal so instead of knocking me off it put a huge dent in the fender. Somebody must have called the police and it was very impressive to see how fast that ambulance came screaming up the road knowing a motorcycle was involved. They were all incredulous when they heard what had happened and that I hadn't been splattered over the road.

 

[sub3marathonman]

You absolutely do NOT know what you are talking about. Do you live in Southern California ? Most likely not. I live 16 miles from my job, the I-5 and I-405 are in the top 3 shittiest freeways in So Cal, the 91 being first. I sat in my regular car for 7 years on these freeways, taking me 45-60 mins each way. I don't pass farmer brown or maybe 30 cars on my way to work, I pass 1,000's when in the carpool lane. A lane that was designed to pat people on the back for carpooling or in my case who drive electric cars. I don't care if I was the only one in that lane, it's 65 MPH on the freeway, not 55 not 45 not even 70 like it is on I-15 to San Diego and Las Vegas. 65MPH.

There was no one in front of him, by all your logic if they are going 5-25mph in the other lanes next to me I should do that ?? Uh NO The MPH is 65, that's what you are supposed to be doing regardless of the lanes next to you, there is a double yellow line which means DO NOT go over this line and it's double the fine because there are 2 sets. If they go over and hit you ? that's just an added on stupidity on their part and a HUGE fine. You see people who do it but considering the amount of people on the freeway it's a small margin.

And by the way, you're Rude. I was not speaking to you, so go climb back under your rock.

Obviously other problems involved in addition to being mathematically challenged!!

LOL, and I rest my case.

 

[fooljoe]

Perhaps this misunderstanding stems from a little lack of knowledge around California law...

The MPH is 65, that's what you are supposed to be doing regardless of the lanes next to you

This is incorrect - the posted speed limit is just that - a LIMIT, or maximum speed, not a "recommended" speed. Beyond that, just because a speed limit is posted doesn't necessarily mean it's legal at the time, as conditions could dictate otherwise. The law states:

22350.  No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

And as far as this one:

If they go over and hit you ? that's just an added on stupidity on their part and a HUGE fine.

One of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard about driving is "always assume the other guy's an idiot." Yea, it'd be stupid for somebody to cross the double yellows in front of you - but guess what? There are a lot of stupid people out there. And yea, it'd be their fault if they hit you - but what good does it do you to point out that you were right and they were wrong when you're dead?

And by the way, you're Rude. I was not speaking to you, so go climb back under your rock.

Let's try to keep it civil, can we? And remember, you're not having a private conversation here: With every post you are talking to sub3marathonman and over 15,000 other forum members and who knows how many other visitors. And you started this off by publicly shaming and calling a "douchebag" a fellow Leaf driver - so don't be surprised if the tables get turned...

Anyway, there are legitimate points to be made on either side: If you're holding up traffic of course you should be mindful of the situation and either increase your speed if safe or make a reasonable attempt to let people pass (as an aside, here's an interesting read on the quandary faced by a slower HOV-lane driver.) On the other hand if you're the one held up perhaps you should take a deep breath, give the guy in front some room, and either wait for a safe opportunity to pass or just deal with having to drive a bit slower than you'd like. In both cases everyone can benefit from having a little empathy - everyone has a different philosophy on driving but we all have to share the same roads.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

wow, many of you guys and gals like to fight on this forum. Chill out.

 

[Nubo]

I've never been able to wrap my head around the common sentiment of "drive at least the speed limit"...

Not to say that I don't sometimes exceed the limit. But I think it boils down to this

1 - I don't expect other drivers to facilitate it.

2 - The speed limit isn't a mandatory or minimum speed, it's a maximum. Anything above it is all on you.

3 - Anyone traveling at a legal speed has more rights, imho, than someone exceeding the speed limit, not the other way around. I cannot fathom the entitlement attitude that driving over the limit means everyone is obligated to get out of my way.

4 - The amount of wasted anger and dangerous behaviors (tailgating, cutting off...) on our highways, over what usually amounts to a 5-10 mph difference in preference, blows my mind. Too much quoting of vehicle codes to justify too much reckless behavior. Using a car to threaten or express anger is simply criminal. Anyone who tailgates to "prove a point" should have their license revoked immediately.

 

[GRA]

Uh, no, if people are overtaking you in the HOV lane, then regardless of what your speed is you're going too slowly, and have to move over or speed up.

I agree with you that if there are two HOV lanes and you are in the leftmost and getting passed on the right, you should move over to the right. In the situation I described, there is one HOV lane, and you are going faster than every other lane. Therefore, no one is overtaking you.

Nope, people are overtaking you in your lane. It's the same reason there's a '5 cars' regulation on two-lane roads:

21656. On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of
traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving
vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more
vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the
nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the
authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever
sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the
vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a
slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed
less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and
place.

In any case, I think we've strayed rather far from the basic point of the topic, which can be summarized as "don't be a dick."

Indeed, don't tailgate the person legally going 55mph in the HOV lane when all the other lanes are going slower. Be happy you aren't stuck in the other lanes.

Cheers, Wayne

Both tailgating and driving slower than the lane allows constitute 'being a dick' in my book. They both violate common courtesy (i.e. that roads are shared, and that no one person owns them) as well as being unsafe.

 

[GRA]

I've never been able to wrap my head around the common sentiment of "drive at least the speed limit"...

Not to say that I don't sometimes exceed the limit. But I think it boils down to this

1 - I don't expect other drivers to facilitate it.

2 - The speed limit isn't a mandatory or minimum speed, it's a maximum. Anything above it is all on you.

Yes, it's on you, but the state does give you wiggle room:

CVC 22351:
(b) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima
facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in
this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by
competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not
constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and
under the conditions then existing.

3 - Anyone traveling at a legal speed has more rights, imho, than someone exceeding the speed limit, not the other way around. I cannot fathom the entitlement attitude that driving over the limit means everyone is obligated to get out of my way.

Which wasn't the case here, but if you're impeding traffic (even if driving at a legal speed) you are willfully driving in an unsafe manner, because overtaking, especially as the speed differential grows, is less safe than everyone driving at the same speed. Which is why the state has the laws it does, that say that if you're slow moving relative to other traffic, drive as far to the right as possible.

4 - The amount of wasted anger and dangerous behaviors (tailgating, cutting off...) on our highways, over what usually amounts to a 5-10 mph difference in preference, blows my mind. Too much quoting of vehicle codes to justify too much reckless behavior. Using a car to threaten or express anger is simply criminal. Anyone who tailgates to "prove a point" should have their license revoked immediately.

No argument there.

 

[wwhitney]

Nope, people are overtaking you in your lane. It's the same reason there's a '5 cars' regulation on two-lane roads:

I'm familiar with the '5 cars' regulation, but it doesn't apply to an HOV lane. And if there's only one HOV lane, how can someone overtake you within the HOV lane? All the examples I've talked about have the rest of the lanes moving slower than the HOV lane, so no one can safely overtake using those lanes.

Both tailgating and driving slower than the lane allows constitute 'being a dick' in my book. They both violate common courtesy (i.e. that roads are shared, and that no one person owns them)

I disagree with regard to driving within 10 mph of the speed limit. Again, if the choices are, say 35 mph in the regular lanes, or taking the HOV lane, why does your desire to go 65 mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to go 55 mph? It doesn't.

Obviously if the slower driver can let the faster driver pass without more than a brief delay for the slower driver, the slower driver should do that, but in the cases under discussion that's not possible. In which case the faster driver should be polite and slow down.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[GRA]

Nope, people are overtaking you in your lane. It's the same reason there's a '5 cars' regulation on two-lane roads:

I'm familiar with the '5 cars' regulation, but it doesn't apply to an HOV lane. And if there's only one HOV lane, how can someone overtake you within the HOV lane? All the examples I've talked about have the rest of the lanes moving slower than the HOV lane, so no one can safely overtake using those lanes.

You're overtaken in the HOV lane the same as you are in any other lane; it's passing that's impossible.

Both tailgating and driving slower than the lane allows constitute 'being a dick' in my book. They both violate common courtesy (i.e. that roads are shared, and that no one person owns them)

I disagree with regard to driving within 10 mph of the speed limit. Again, if the choices are, say 35 mph in the regular lanes, or taking the HOV lane, why does your desire to 65 mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to go 55 mph? It doesn't.

Obviously if the slower driver can let the faster driver pass without more than a brief delay for the slower driver, the slower driver should do that, but in the cases under discussion that's not possible. In which case the faster driver should be polite and slow down.

Cheers, Wayne

Then we disagree as to what constitutes courtesy to other drivers. If I want to drive 55 when everyone else in that lane wants to drive faster, why do my preferences outweigh all of theirs? I mean, what's the incentive for people to car pool (or in this case, buy/lease a PEV) so they can drive in an HOV lane, if not to allow them to complete their drive in the shortest time possible consistent with safety? Law enforcement is there to make sure that people don't drive like complete nuts, even if it's often not there when you want it.

As an example of someone violating the 5-car rule, I recall driving up Hwy 1 from Santa Barbara to Monterey one Sunday afternoon, when I was trying to get home after a long weekend. Unfortunately, there was a guy in a car who felt that his right to drive 20-22 mph (two-lane posted 25-35) so he could sightsee outweighed everyone else's right to get home at the speed they chose. He did this for about 15 miles, ignoring headlight flashes, horn honks, and eventually various digital gestures, despite numerous opportunities to pull over safely and let people by. When we finally got into Big Sur there were 35 cars stacked up behind him (I was #4 or 5), and sadly, the Highway Patrol officer sitting in Big Sur pulled over an RV that the 'King of the Road' had just caught up to instead of him, thinking that the RV rather than this jackass was responsible for the backup, so everyone was still stuck behind him until the four-lane in Monterey. I pulled over in Big Sur to let the train get well ahead of me, which is how I was able to count all the cars backed up behind this jerk.

To me, as a matter of courtesy and ignoring the law, it's exactly the same situation in an HOV lane, where people can't pass legally or safely. It's the sort of situation that leads to road rage, so why go out of your way to exacerbate it?

 

[GRA]

Well, lucked out and found the one I was thinking of: https://energycenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/nav/transportation/cvrp/survey-results/California_Plug-in_Electric_Vehicle_Driver_Survey_Results-May_2013.pdf

Thanks for sharing, its really interesting... but its only half the story. Measuring why the people who did not buy such a vehicle, didn't. Did they hold negative views of the vehicles relating to the "special privileges" and did that discourage them from buying one? However, its clearly not something most in this thread want to discuss

Not sure what happened to my previous post discussing this but here's some more data, which allows you
to filter for demographics, buying motivation, type (All/BEV/PHEV), make, etc. and would seem to be exactly what you're interested in:

EV Consumer Survey Dashboard

http://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/survey-dashboard

While in the first survey I linked the overall % of people who rated the HOV stickers as 'extremely important' in their decision to buy was 32%, and 27% rated it 'somewhat important', this site allows you to drill down to get far more detail.