Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

[evnow]

The two stories we have seen in the past month or so point to either 2016/17. I suspect a 2016 release of a MY17 model for the Gen 2 car.

While Andy Palmer didn't say anything about not introducing gen 2 battery before gen2 Leaf - I suspect that won't happen.

 

[hill]

Why are you guys talking about these things on the48kwh thread. I came here for an update on that.
Has anyone heard anything other than a 2017 launch date... right after the infiniti ev is released?

I have not heard or read anything substantial about the launch date, however I would hope that it is sooner than 2017. If they wait till that long I think I would rather just wait for the Tesla Model 3 instead.

The sooner Nissan offers a longer range LEAF the better off they will be.

The most extreme STUPID facet re Nissan's 48kWh battery teasing . . . there's never any talk about active temp management. You'd have to be totally simple to pay for that much capacity, only to know it'd burn up way sooner than if active temp management was implemented.
Nissan throws out survey after survey after survey ... "would you pay this much? .... how much would you pay for this? ...." never a single question about owner's disgust via premature pack death due to poor temp management / design. But hey, if you want cheep, because cheep is affordable up front ... then that's what you get.
.

 

[dhanson865]

Why are you guys talking about these things on the48kwh thread. I came here for an update on that.
Has anyone heard anything other than a 2017 launch date... right after the infiniti ev is released?

I have not heard or read anything substantial about the launch date, however I would hope that it is sooner than 2017. If they wait till that long I think I would rather just wait for the Tesla Model 3 instead.

The sooner Nissan offers a longer range LEAF the better off they will be.

The most extreme STUPID facet re Nissan's 48kWh battery teasing . . . there's never any talk about active temp management. You'd have to be totally simple to pay for that much capacity, only to know it'd burn up way sooner than if active temp management was implemented.
Nissan throws out survey after survey after survey ... "would you pay this much? .... how much would you pay for this? ...." never a single question about owner's disgust via premature pack death due to poor temp management / design. But hey, if you want cheep, because cheep is affordable up front ... then that's what you get.
.

I think you'd have to live far enough north to not care about air conditioning to ignore battery degradation. The problem is a 48KWh battery will bring in a lot of newbies that have never read the monster thread (Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)).

Can you imagine all the GOM and Lost capacity duplicate threads we'll get if they release a 48KWh Leaf?

 

[jsongster]

Doesn't the E-NV-200 have the LEAF battery modified to use the AC to cool it? If so this may be implemented along with the new LEAF with larger battery. Makes sense no?

 

[TimLee]

Doesn't the E-NV-200 have the LEAF battery modified to use the AC to cool it? If so this may be implemented along with the new LEAF with larger battery. Makes sense no?

Possibly.
But they were pretty clear that was done due to that vehicle possibly using lots of quick charging.
They were pretty adamant in January 2013 that they believe the right design choice is no active cooling.
If their new 2015 battery chemistry accomplishes what they hope they might be right about that.

 

[DanCar]

Doesn't the E-NV-200 have the LEAF battery modified to use the AC to cool it?

No, it has a little fan to cool the electronics.

 

[johnrhansen]

Too bsd they didn't include in the specification for the quick charge connector a provision for a liquid cooling system for the battery. Instead of the cooling system being in the car, it's in the charger!

 

[evnow]

Back in the day - I remember all computers needed to be kept in AC rooms. But technology improved. We now even have computers with no fans.

Similarly, the long term goal should be - no cooling. Whether today Nissan achieve that needs to be seen.

 

[TomT]

That's all we would need, coolant connections in the charge connector! What could possibly go wrong?!

Too bsd they didn't include in the specification for the quick charge connector a provision for a liquid cooling system for the battery. Instead of the cooling system being in the car, it's in the charger!

 

[TomT]

It's an almost certain bet that we are not there yet... Particularly if QC is a consideration...

Similarly, the long term goal should be - no cooling. Whether today Nissan achieve that needs to be seen.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Doesn't the E-NV-200 have the LEAF battery modified to use the AC to cool it? If so this may be implemented along with the new LEAF with larger battery. Makes sense no?

Possibly.
But they were pretty clear that was done due to that vehicle possibly using lots of quick charging.
They were pretty adamant in January 2013 that they believe the right design choice is no active cooling.
If their new 2015 battery chemistry accomplishes what they hope they might be right about that.

No cooling makes it easier to swap out bad packs :lol: No lines to disconnect and nothing to drain.

 

[johnrhansen]

That's all we would need, coolant connections in the charge connector! What could possibly go wrong?!

Too bsd they didn't include in the specification for the quick charge connector a provision for a liquid cooling system for the battery. Instead of the cooling system being in the car, it's in the charger!

Doesn't have to be the same connector. Yes water and 400vdc do not mix well.

 

[jstack6]

I can't believe you got to see and check out a 48Kw LEAF in Quebec. That is really good. I heard it won't come out until 2016 just in time for the Tesla GEN III with 200+ mile range and new BMW , GM and KIA electrics with about a 200 mile range. I think the Tesla with Nationwide Super Charging has to be the best deal if not the longest range but we will find out in 2016 or around that time.

 

[evnow]

It's an almost certain bet that we are not there yet... Particularly if QC is a consideration...

Well, I haven't seen the test reports on the new chemistry. So, I don't know.

Back in the day when Apple struggled and produced electronics with no fans - no one realized the importance. Now people take the feature for granted.

 

[mkjayakumar]

What? Someone really saw a 48kWh Leaf and didn't take pictures ?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Back in the day - I remember all computers needed to be kept in AC rooms. But technology improved. We now even have computers with no fans.

Similarly, the long term goal should be - no cooling. Whether today Nissan achieve that needs to be seen.

not sure I would go that far. now I have a fan on my laptop that I can never hear running. only a feeling of warmth at times near the vent and its only usually noticeable after sitting on couch with blanket semi blocking the vent.

as far as heat control, one would have to guess that Nissan has learned an expensive lesson and have come out with a more heat tolerant pack or as "Fight Club" suggests, simply weighed the cost of the fix verses hitting the right time to market.

now, some may complain about that last statement but I am seeing a lot of gratefulness on Nissan's recent actions that is something that should have been expected from day one. Its almost like an orchestrated play. We complain, they deny, they "accept" the challenge, release a better than expected solution, we are elated. So our short term elation is a substitution for what should have deeper sense of long term satisfaction.

whatever is ultimately true, it does appear that it is working too many repeat buyers, leasers and multi-LEAF households. albeit not working as fast as I would have liked but its starting to look like they started developing lizard battery much before they let on if its truly developed, vetted and tested already.

 

[evnow]

not sure I would go that far. now I have a fan on my laptop that I can never hear running. only a feeling of warmth at times near the vent and its only usually noticeable after sitting on couch with blanket semi blocking the vent.

But no fans in most tablets.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

not sure I would go that far. now I have a fan on my laptop that I can never hear running. only a feeling of warmth at times near the vent and its only usually noticeable after sitting on couch with blanket semi blocking the vent.

But no fans in most tablets.

not sure I can agree with that decision either. but then again, battery life has a completely different meaning in a tablet. my phone has no venting but definitely has heat buildup issues. now is it poor design of the casing or an even poorer design of the software that is causing the processor in the phone to work overtime? I am guessing its mostly the later but that hardly gives the former a pass

 

[TimLee]

... its starting to look like they started developing lizard battery much before they let on if its truly developed, vetted and tested already.

I agree Nissan may have had the more heat tolerant chemistry in their long range plans much earlier than summer 2012 when rapid capacity loss in Phoenix quickly became a severe problem for the LEAF.
I am less confident that the lizard battery is "truly developed, vetted and tested already".
The real testing has just begun.
Nissan appears to have done about the same accelerated aging on the new battery that they probably did on the 2011 battery.
That didn't work too well the first time.
We will only know how well it has worked this time in 1 1/2 to 2 years.

Might have more confidence in the lizard battery if Nissan had overall coulombic efficiency testing done of the 2011, 2013, and 2015 batteries by Professor Jeff Dahn (Dalhousie University) but I'm not sure they did that. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15796#p352669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

... its starting to look like they started developing lizard battery much before they let on if its truly developed, vetted and tested already.

I agree Nissan may have had the more heat tolerant chemistry in their long range plans much earlier than summer 2012 when rapid capacity loss in Phoenix quickly became a severe problem for the LEAF.
I am less confident that the lizard battery is "truly developed, vetted and tested already".
The real testing has just begun.
Nissan appears to have done about the same accelerated aging on the new battery that they probably did on the 2011 battery.
That didn't work too well the first time.
We will only know how well it has worked this time in 1 1/2 to 2 years.

Might have more confidence in the lizard battery if Nissan had overall coulombic efficiency testing done of the 2011, 2013, and 2015 batteries by Professor Jeff Dahn (Dalhousie University) but I'm not sure they did that. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15796#p352669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

yes, it is possible they tested it only to insure a decent margin of performance that exceeds the warranty replacement guidelines