Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[EVDRIVER]

The only thing Tesla does very well (cars only) is battery degradation and battery capacity.
EVERYTHING else is either average or worse than average (compared to premium vehicles).
And, I literally mean at least 90% of the whole vehicle when I say EVERYTHING

Maybe, just maybe, Model 3 has a good drivetrain, but it has not been proven yet.
Therefore I still stand in the long long line, but I'm not sufficiently satisfied right now.

Please elaborate specifically on the 90% worse, sounds pretty sensational.

 

[sparky]

The only thing Tesla does very well (cars only) is battery degradation and battery capacity.
EVERYTHING else is either average or worse than average (compared to premium vehicles).
And, I literally mean at least 90% of the whole vehicle when I say EVERYTHING

Maybe, just maybe, Model 3 has a good drivetrain, but it has not been proven yet.
Therefore I still stand in the long long line, but I'm not sufficiently satisfied right now.

One thing Tesla does best is invent desire.
I haven't wanted any of the flaccid offerings by the other "premium" brands since driving a Model S in 2012.
Seems like a few hundred thousand early reservationists have a similar mindset.
I have found Tesla service to be better than what I got from either Lexus or Porsche.
Supercharging is in another universe compared to non Tesla offerings so far.
Driving my Model 3 is a pleasure I've not gotten from BMW or Audi. But you might be better off with one of those if that's really how you feel about the experience.

 

[sparky]

An update on my 340 mile drive with recent Model 3 AP FW (V2018.10.5).
For the first time, I could leave AP engaged for the entire ~40 mi of S->N I-5 Grapevine. Entered turns more like a good driver (was kind of late before), no truck lust, no sudden radar freakouts. Really smooth.

Stopped for juice at Kettleman City charging "megaplex". This is the half-way point and I still had 98 miles of range. I was traveling at left-lane I-5 speeds the whole way and very nearly got rated range (battery stats showed 240 Wh/mi). Incredible.
20 mins of charging and car was ready to go. I barely had time for a barista-coffee and email update.
Japanese film crew wanted to chat and interview me about the Model 3. I had positive feedback for them.
Saw quite a few Teslas and 12 Tesla car carrier trucks with a high ratio of Model 3's. Needless to say, saw no Bolts or 2018 LEAFs on this long stretch of road.

I read another OTA update is imminent. Love to have it for the return leg.

BTW, ran this leg with the aero covers on. I plan to drive the return with them off to compare efficiency numbers. Not exactly a clean test but of interest to me.

Finished this R/T test.

340 miles I-5 fast-lane speeds: 240 Wh/mi with aero wheel covers.
249 Wh/mi without. Not much of a diff.

 

[lpickup]

Finished this R/T test.

340 miles I-5 fast-lane speeds: 240 Wh/mi with aero wheel covers.
249 Wh/mi without. Not much of a diff.

Yeah, but just maybe enough to get me through a particular charging station void (Tesla or otherwise) in south central Virginia, on the last leg of my annual trip home from up north. I will need to be able to squeeze out every last mile I can, so it's nice to have the option. It's a 254 mile leg, so that would be savings of 2.3kWh (although I would not be going I-5 fast lane speeds), or another 9 miles...doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're on the hairy edge of your range window like that.... (80% of 310 mile range is 248 miles)

Or, maybe Tesla will eventually put a Supercharger in at the Sheetz just south of Lynchburg, VA.

 

[lorenfb]

Finished this R/T test.

340 miles I-5 fast-lane speeds: 240 Wh/mi with aero wheel covers.
249 Wh/mi without. Not much of a diff.

Yeah, but just maybe enough to get me through a particular charging station void (Tesla or otherwise) in south central Virginia, on the last leg of my annual trip home from up north. I will need to be able to squeeze out every last mile I can, so it's nice to have the option. It's a 254 mile leg, so that would be savings of 2.3kWh (although I would not be going I-5 fast lane speeds), or another 9 miles...doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're on the hairy edge of your range window like that.... (80% of 310 mile range is 248 miles)

Or, maybe Tesla will eventually put a Supercharger in at the Sheetz just south of Lynchburg, VA.

A simple speed reduction, e.g. 80 mph to 55 mph, would result in a much more significant range improvement than wheel covers.

 

[lpickup]

A simple speed reduction, e.g. 80 mph to 55 mph, would result in a much more significant range improvement than wheel covers.

If I was on a highway where the traffic was moving along at 70-80mph, I would definitely NOT slow down to 55mph! That would be highly dangerous in my opinion.

That aside, I think you miss the point. Putting on aero wheel covers for a trip is an extremely easy and no-compromise solution to increasing range (however slight) without adding time to your trip or putting yourself in danger. The fact that you can use them when you need them (and remove them when you don't, if you don't like the looks), is a benefit.

And by the way, this is not a Tesla-specific matter--you can buy aerodynamic covers for probably any wheel--so don't feel you have to put the idea down just because Model 3's come with the cover.

 

[EVDRIVER]

A simple speed reduction, e.g. 80 mph to 55 mph, would result in a much more significant range improvement than wheel covers.

If I was on a highway where the traffic was moving along at 70-80mph, I would definitely NOT slow down to 55mph! That would be highly dangerous in my opinion.

That aside, I think you miss the point. Putting on aero wheel covers for a trip is an extremely easy and no-compromise solution to increasing range (however slight) without adding time to your trip or putting yourself in danger. The fact that you can use them when you need them (and remove them when you don't, if you don't like the looks), is a benefit.

And by the way, this is not a Tesla-specific matter--you can buy aerodynamic covers for probably any wheel--so don't feel you have to put the idea down just because Model 3's come with the cover.

FYI- On a Model S if you are diving over 70-75 you won't be getting anywhere faster as the time gained over 70 MPH will have to be made up at the SC so you will just be sitting longer unless it is your last leg home, etc. So you can give fast and sit longer or vice versa. Depending when and where you drive on the 5 you can often do 70 with no issue. Better off stopping more for low SOC charges and than fewer longer charges. Since the range /efficiency on the 3 is so good, leaving with a full charge and even driving at 80 should not require much of a charge to do a great distance.

 

[lorenfb]

A simple speed reduction, e.g. 80 mph to 55 mph, would result in a much more significant range improvement than wheel covers.

If I was on a highway where the traffic was moving along at 70-80mph, I would definitely NOT slow down to 55mph! That would be highly dangerous in my opinion.

We then have a different view about hwy/frwy driving, i.e. I'm always in the far right lane at 50-55. With only 50 Ahrs left in my Leaf
and to visit my customers, I need to maximize my range and still travel effectively. I couldn't care less if trucks tailgate, they usually
have one or two lanes they can pass in.

 

[EVDRIVER]

A simple speed reduction, e.g. 80 mph to 55 mph, would result in a much more significant range improvement than wheel covers.

If I was on a highway where the traffic was moving along at 70-80mph, I would definitely NOT slow down to 55mph! That would be highly dangerous in my opinion.

We then have a different view about hwy/frwy driving, i.e. I'm always in the far right lane at 50-55. With only 50 Ahrs left in my Leaf
and to visit my customers, I need to maximize my range and still travel effectively. I couldn't care less if trucks tailgate, they usually
have one or two lanes they can pass in.

There are parts of the 5 you can't do 55, its a 70MPH limit with two lanes in places, 55 would be a hazard as slow moving traffic is generally 65.

 

[lpickup]

We then have a different view about hwy/frwy driving, i.e. I'm always in the far right lane at 50-55. With only 50 Ahrs left in my Leaf
and to visit my customers, I need to maximize my range and still travel effectively. I couldn't care less if trucks tailgate, they usually
have one or two lanes they can pass in.

No, we are talking about two entirely different situations here.

The fact that you have to say the "far right lane" already indicates a drastic difference in what I am talking about. The road I am talking about has a small section that is 4 lane limited access, but most of that route is 4 lane divided highway. There's not a whole lot of 70-80 mph driving on that road anyway (limit goes between 45 when nearing at grade intersections to sections that are 55 and even a few 65's--one of the sections that is limited access does have a 70mph limit).

Even driving around my area, where the interstates are 6 lanes I would say the usual differential of vehicle speeds is about 20mph. I don't see it as just a courtesy issue, but more as a safety issue. Yes, those trucks can come around you and pass, but as they pull into the next lane over now they are exposing the neighboring traffic to far slower speeds. With only 3 lanes to work with, a car going 80mph darting into the middle lane as a truck going 55 pulls into it to pass someone in the right is a setup for an accident.

 

[lorenfb]

If I was on a highway where the traffic was moving along at 70-80mph, I would definitely NOT slow down to 55mph! That would be highly dangerous in my opinion.

We then have a different view about hwy/frwy driving, i.e. I'm always in the far right lane at 50-55. With only 50 Ahrs left in my Leaf
and to visit my customers, I need to maximize my range and still travel effectively. I couldn't care less if trucks tailgate, they usually
have one or two lanes they can pass in.

There are parts of the 5 you can't do 55, its a 70MPH limit with two lanes in places, 55 would be a hazard as slow moving traffic is generally 65.

You're correct. I'd never drive the 5 north of LA in my Leaf. When I visit customer's in Scotts Valley (down the 17 from San Jose),
I drive my ICEV at 75-80 from LA on the 5.

 

[lorenfb]

We then have a different view about hwy/frwy driving, i.e. I'm always in the far right lane at 50-55. With only 50 Ahrs left in my Leaf
and to visit my customers, I need to maximize my range and still travel effectively. I couldn't care less if trucks tailgate, they usually
have one or two lanes they can pass in.

No, we are talking about two entirely different situations here.

The fact that you have to say the "far right lane" already indicates a drastic difference in what I am talking about. The road I am talking about has a small section that is 4 lane limited access, but most of that route is 4 lane divided highway. There's not a whole lot of 70-80 mph driving on that road anyway (limit goes between 45 when nearing at grade intersections to sections that are 55 and even a few 65's--one of the sections that is limited access does have a 70mph limit).

Even driving around my area, where the interstates are 6 lanes I would say the usual differential of vehicle speeds is about 20mph. I don't see it as just a courtesy issue, but more as a safety issue. Yes, those trucks can come around you and pass, but as they pull into the next lane over now they are exposing the neighboring traffic to far slower speeds. With only 3 lanes to work with, a car going 80mph darting into the middle lane as a truck going 55 pulls into it to pass someone in the right is a setup for an accident.

As I just explained in my last post, my Leaf only serves a portion of my daily driving needs. In your situation, I agree.

 

[RegGuheert]

Elon Musk claims Model 3 production is now above 2000 cars/week:

At 12:01 AM EST today, Tesla CEO Elon Musk apparently decided it was time to send out a congratulatory email to Tesla employees.

The email, focused on Tesla Model 3 production, stated that the ramp up to this level has been “extremely difficult,” but Musk noted “we are finally here.”

Well, not quite.

The email further stated the following:

“If things go as planned today, we will comfortably exceed that number over a seven day period!”

This means that, provided everything stays on track today, Model 3 production will have met or exceed 2,000 units of the past 7-day work period.

Meanwhile, Bloomberg shows 1190 cars/week. Comments to the InsideEVs article indicated that this may be a one-week-at-the-end-of-every-quarter thing at Tesla which is accomplished by working seven days that week, but that the rate will not continue into the next week. We'll see.

 

[arnis]

Please elaborate specifically on the 90% worse, sounds pretty sensational.

I mean 90% of user experience vehicle parts.
Like seats. Worse than BMW.
windshield wipers - worse.
Rear wiper - none
Rear seat - worse than most vehicles on market.
Rearview mirror defrost - dumb
Headlights - appropriate for cheaper vehicles.
Suspension comfort - less comfy than vehicles in same class (comfort is not the same as road feel and glued feeling)
Seatbelt adjustability - none
HUD - none
towing - none (except X)
cup holders - still not good
cold comfort - worse
shades - none, one of the worst in the world
HVAC system - basic
hood closing ergonomics - unacceptable (one of the worst in the world).
Interior lights - mediocre
sun visors - insufficient.

the list goes on and on.


PS: those who think driving at or below speed LIMIT is in any way dangerous, are ridiculous m****s who know
absof*ckalutely nothing about how safety works. Not to mention how many accidents in the whole world have happened due to
vehicle moving slightly slower than speed limit. It all comes down to random driving lanes and chaos on the roads. That must
not be "compensated" by pushing faster and faster. It's like teenagers pushing each other to inhale more glue to find out when
the weakest link passes out.
And no, it's not mine, nor your, nor anybody's OPINION. Please add #PersonalOpinion or smth before stating things that
might actually harm people or the whole nation later on.

 

[lpickup]

Oh boy...let me start with this...

PS: those who think driving at or below speed LIMIT is in any way dangerous, are ridiculous m****s who know
absof*ckalutely nothing about how safety works.

I don't even understand the whole part of this paragraph that was snipped (about sniffing glue, etc.) and how it relates to the current discussion, however...

Nobody is saying anything about whether you are safer "at or below the limit". It's about the differential between the fastest and the slowest drivers. It's been shown time and again that the safest speed to travel is right around the average speed of the traffic flow (actually even slightly faster, as in 5%). That may be above, at, or below the posted limit. It doesn't matter. The point being is if you are either well above or well below the average flow of traffic, you present a hazard, regardless of what the limit is.

Okay, so now your list of extremely subjective observations (were these first-hand by the way?) I found a few of them kind of interesting...

HUD - none
towing - none (except X)
HVAC system - basic

Am I to infer that if the Model 3 is worse than 90% of the vehicles out there, that 90% of vehicles have HUDs? Towing packages? And above average HVAC systems?

Please add #PersonalOpinion

Maybe this should have been done for your original 90% remark?

 

[TonyWilliams]

While I agree that the Model 3 does not exceed every competing car in every category (no car does), credibility is lost suggesting that cars in this class have HUD, or towing capability.

The Model 3, when outfitted with a simple aftermarket towing device, will pull a small trailer just fine, as will any of the competitors. A HUD can be added to any.

The sun visors are inferior? Really?

I actually own the car, and have owned the BMW 330, and my views don’t reflect the “90%” remark.

If the Tesla Model 3 only breaks down half as much as the BMW did, I’ll consider the Tesla the superior car.

 

[arnis]

It's been shown time and again that the safest speed to travel is right around the average speed of the traffic flow (actually even slightly faster,

BS if not proven otherwise.
Mathematically, it's nonsense. According to what you said, driving 1-5% faster than traffic is safer. This will end up with unstoppable increase in speed to make the car travel as safe as possible.

Take your time and find few reliable sources (safest driving speed).

Also note my remark on this:

It's about the differential between the fastest and the slowest drivers.

Germany has the highest speed difference between fastest and slowest drivers. 80mph difference between slow (not slowest) and fast (not fastest).
While those specific roads are the safest roads in the world. It's a fact.

The 2013 U.S. rate of 7.1 road fatalities per 1 billion vehicle-km....

In 2014, the autobahn fatality rate of 1.6 deaths per billion travel-kilometres...

@TonyWilliams - in case of Model 3 only. There is nothing very wrong with having no HUD. It's slightly cheaper vehicle.
I was referring Tesla vehicles as vehicles from one manufacturer. This means S, X, 3 and Roadster 2.
But no towing means no towing. Aftermarket crap is not counted. No warranty for frame nor legal. In EU, this doesn't work.
Our cars must stay legal to pass MOT.

Yes. model S and X sun visors are not sufficient. In case of Model S, they are too small. Luckily, they have light now.
Way too late, but at least something has been fixed. No comments about M3 sun visors, mirror cover design looks good.

OK, I'll list something for Model 3 specifically. I'll compare it to 3-series from BMW offered in EU.
Missing standard equipment:
Intrusion alarm
Does not support smaller wheels (bad brake caliper design).
Brake pad wear sensor or virtual sensor
Headlight cleaning
*Servotronic steering assist (adjusts automatically according to speed)
*Two stage brake lights - rapid blinking in case of emergency
5 year 62 000 mile service (that means free inspection and service (like brake oil, cabin filter, undercarriage inspection)
5 year 125 000 mile all inclusive warranty - Tesla has warranty much shorter than that, mileage wise


Missing basic options (appropriate for premium compact vehicles):
Steering wheel heater, 200€
Adaptive suspension, 1100€
Tow package, 1000€
Rear glass shade, 350€
Rear door shades, 250€
Optional factory tinting, 400€
Adaptive headlights, 1200€
360 view (incl opposite side curb view), 400€
Insufficient wheel options.
Insufficient color options.
Bad premium seats (bad adjustability)
Dumb HVAC system (only 2 zones, doesn't understand sun radiation nor moisture nor pollutants).

*could be fixed with software.

I skipped all features that are not available on cheaper premium vehicles like Škoda Superb, BMW 3-series, Mercedes C-class, Audi A4.
I also skipped some safety features (mostly pre- and post-collision stuff).
There is nothing wrong with acceleration and smoothness of "transmission". But that is NOT enough for 40k vehicle.

Overall, Model 3 is simple not just visually, it's simple in its roots as well. Insufficient battery heater, no heat pump,
no camera washers, no radar defrost, no roof rack support, no glass/roof shades, no cargo hooks... and stuff like that.

As of right now, Tesla's break down often. Though service is much better. This will not continue endlessly.
Tesla does not and will never have enough resources to serve hundreds of thousands of vehicles that often that well.
This includes warranty and non-warranty work.
Likely S/X/Roadster2 owners will get better service, but it's not possible with Model 3 and Y.
As of right now, they don't even have brake pads to sell for Model 3. This is a really bad start no matter what people think.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Ok, so on the Model 3 thread, you’re complaining about all Tesla cars. Got it.

 

[arnis]

Model 3 is their least advanced vehicle. So commenting more advanced vehicles is definitely appropriate.
If more expensive vehicle misses features that are expected, then it's reasonable to talk about manufacturer
as the source of a problem, not specific model.


But even if we analyze my own list again.

I mean 90% of user experience vehicle parts.
Like seats. Worse than BMW.
windshield wipers - worse.
Rear wiper - none
Rear seat - worse than most vehicles on market.
Rearview mirror defrost - dumb
Headlights - appropriate for cheaper vehicles. - applies to premium upgrade package only
Suspension comfort - less comfy than vehicles in same class (comfort is not the same as road feel and glued feeling)
Seatbelt adjustability - none
HUD - none
towing - none (except X)
cup holders - still not good
cold comfort - worse
shades - none, one of the worst in the world
HVAC system - basic
hood closing ergonomics - unacceptable (one of the worst in the world).
Interior lights - mediocre
sun visors - insufficient.

the list goes on and on.

All things in bold also apply to Model 3. So I'm not sure your boastful reply is reasonable.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Please elaborate specifically on the 90% worse, sounds pretty sensational.

I mean 90% of user experience vehicle parts.
Like seats. Worse than BMW.
windshield wipers - worse.
Rear wiper - none
Rear seat - worse than most vehicles on market.
Rearview mirror defrost - dumb
Headlights - appropriate for cheaper vehicles.
Suspension comfort - less comfy than vehicles in same class (comfort is not the same as road feel and glued feeling)
Seatbelt adjustability - none
HUD - none
towing - none (except X)
cup holders - still not good
cold comfort - worse
shades - none, one of the worst in the world
HVAC system - basic
hood closing ergonomics - unacceptable (one of the worst in the world).
Interior lights - mediocre
sun visors - insufficient.

the list goes on and on.


PS: those who think driving at or below speed LIMIT is in any way dangerous, are ridiculous m****s who know
absof*ckalutely nothing about how safety works. Not to mention how many accidents in the whole world have happened due to
vehicle moving slightly slower than speed limit. It all comes down to random driving lanes and chaos on the roads. That must
not be "compensated" by pushing faster and faster. It's like teenagers pushing each other to inhale more glue to find out when
the weakest link passes out.
And no, it's not mine, nor your, nor anybody's OPINION. Please add #PersonalOpinion or smth before stating things that
might actually harm people or the whole nation later on.

Clearly you don't drive on I5 in California. You can actually get sited for driving too far below the flow of traffic in some cases. Your list is a bit silly in many cases but I expected nothing substantial.