Official Tesla Model S thread
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Tesla is definitely doing a good job rolling out Superchargers.ebill3 said:
They have a huge advantage in figuring that they only need to put them in around 150 mile increments initially going down to 75 mile increments as the flesh it out in that there are economies of scale to be gained in getting Supercharger plugs in the ground.
For each Supercharger site with 2-10 plugs, that is 2-10 times less legwork per plug that needs to be done since each location will have a fixed amount of overhead required to negotiate a lease or find and buy suitable land, pull permits and then schedule a crew to do the install. The same crew can probably install one supercharger site with up to 10 plugs in the same time it takes to install 2 separate CHAdeMO installs.
And as we've seen with the CHAdeMO roll out, it takes a certain amount of time to get that done regardless of the size of the install - so SuperChargers plugs are incrementing from typically 4-10 plugs at a time while CHAdeMO plugs are incrementing 1 plug at a time.
It certainly doesn't hurt Tesla either with them taking their destiny into their own hands and getting SuperCharger stations into the ground as fast as possible - contrast that to Nissan's approach which was to wait 2 years before finally getting their own CHAdeMO network built. I bet you some guy at Nissan saw the Supercharger announcement and said - geez - why aren't we doing even half of what Tesla is doing to get charging infrastructure out there and voila - the Nissan 500 CHAdeMO stations in the ground by the end of the year project was born.
The unfortunate thing is that 500 CHAdeMO stations = 500 plugs.
By the Winter 2013 Tesla will have around 100 Supercharger locations - each will probably have an average of 5-6 plugs putting the number of Supercharger plugs right around 500 plugs - the same number as Nissan.
And each one of those Supercharger plugs being capable of up to 120 kW is really worth 2x as much as each 50 kW CHAdeMO station.
Tesla is killing the competition in the quick charge infrastructure business.
If Nissan wants to keep up, they need to do a couple things:
1. Get CHAdeMO stations (plural) installed at all dealers. If a dealer won't make the station available 24/7 - install more near by in a suitable location that are. At least 2 independent stations per location so that one can be reasonable sure that at least if one station is not functional, there is a backup.
2. Make the LEAF pack durable enough to endure summer heat and multiple quick charges / day without premature capacity loss.
3. Introduce an EV with more range. At least 100 miles on a standard charge at 65 mph.
Now Tesla isn't perfect - they are definitely going through some growing pains and having a hard time with quality control, service center experience and even Supercharger reliability (there was a report that the new Superchargers at Harris Ranch were down leaving a HPC and the original Supercharger at the site servicing a queue of 5 Model Ses. Bummer to be in that line and be potentially facing a 2+ hour wait for a charge. But hey - at least they had backup charging available at this location so no-one was left stranded!
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
I met a couple today in their new P85 with 19 inch wheels (I didn't know that was possible).
They just picked up their car in Seattle and were driving to Spokane. They had stopped in Ellensburg, where I was charging on the Roadster HPC. Nobody had told them anything about charging. He didn't know where the plug went, or what cards he needed, or how to unlock the charge port.
They weren't having a good time.
They just picked up their car in Seattle and were driving to Spokane. They had stopped in Ellensburg, where I was charging on the Roadster HPC. Nobody had told them anything about charging. He didn't know where the plug went, or what cards he needed, or how to unlock the charge port.
They weren't having a good time.
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Wow. One would think the store rep or whoever they picked it up from would've showed them the basics.
Some of the newbie mistakes (e.g. referring to chargers when they mean EVSEs) I see on http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are clearly because I suspect that many new Model S owners haven't ever owned an EV before nor were an EV enthusiast beforehand.
Wow. One would think the store rep or whoever they picked it up from would've showed them the basics.
Some of the newbie mistakes (e.g. referring to chargers when they mean EVSEs) I see on http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are clearly because I suspect that many new Model S owners haven't ever owned an EV before nor were an EV enthusiast beforehand.
cwerdna said:
Any rep would have and the deliver specialist definitely would have. My personal experience and all of the reports I have seen are delivery specialists will spend a couple of hours with you. Unless of course you refuse the time (one guy reported he was on his way to work and had no time but he had viewed the delivery video). It is also in the manual or in the onscreen controls.
I wonder who they bought it from, or if it actually was a test drive?
Randy
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Hard to say, maybe they waved off the Tesla walk-through and said they had to get moving, etc. I have a hard time believing that Tesla deliberately turned them loose with no instruction...
About the wheels...Before January 1, when you ordered the performance package, it included any wheels you wanted for no extra charge (19" silver, 21" silver or grey). Of course, most people chose the 21" wheels, as they were kinda "Free" with the performance package. But since January they raised the price and charge an extra $3500 for the 21" wheels (even with a Performance model), so it is even more possible to see a Performance car with 19" wheels.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Last month, on the way back from the bay area, I was surprised to find a S with "dealer" plates (a Performance Plus, IIRC) parked and charging in my L2 space (the one with the best shade!) at the RV park in Orland.
The driver was getting into a cab while I was checking in, but I gathered from the conversation I had with park manager, that the driver had just picked up the Car in The bay area, and expected to make it to further before needing a recharge, but had been "racing a Porsche" on the drive north, and come up short on range...
There is one of the "Free tesla roadster" Clipper Creek L2s only a few hundred yards away, but apparently no one told the S buyer that an adapter is required to charge the S, and when she stopped at the Berry Patch to recharge, she didn't have one.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Zythryn said:
Not a test drive. Had the "dealer" temp tag in the window for Washington state. They took Greyhound bus from Spokane to Seattle to get it, so that must have been interesting.
They didn't want it delivered because you have to pay for it before seeing the actual car.
doug from TMC took a photo of the charging port on the European Model S:
It's a modified Mennekes plug with a deeper socket and thicker pins near the base. Another poster guessed these would be used for supercharging:
So a custom socket that's fully compatible with standard Mennekes plugs and still supports 120kW DC without extra plugs or pins
It's a modified Mennekes plug with a deeper socket and thicker pins near the base. Another poster guessed these would be used for supercharging:
One interesting details is when you start to compare the different connectors
you can see that the Tesla is a mix between them and it also have an extra feature that the standard do not have
also when you look closely at the base of the connector it look like the metal is wider, suggestion that the Tesla Super Charger might be a deeper plug, this may also be the reason for the small tap on the top of the connector
(DC High)
(AC/DC)
(Tesla)
So a custom socket that's fully compatible with standard Mennekes plugs and still supports 120kW DC without extra plugs or pins
Valdemar
Well-known member
planet4ever
Well-known member
Well, Elon did demonstrate it - in fact filling two Teslas while one car was gassing up - recently. The secret was battery swap.Valdemar said:
Ray
Randy
Well-known member
planet4ever said:
He's not talking about swapping, but rather super high-powered charging way above 120kW...
Article excerpt:
Straubel isn’t referring to the battery swap technology Tesla recently unveiled. That system doesn’t charge batteries quickly. It simply takes out a depleted battery and replaces it with a fully charged one. He’s talking about what might be a more appealing option for drivers: recharging the battery in your car while you wait.
garsh
Well-known member
Wow. If they can really reduce battery charging time to be comparable to filling a tank with gas, that will be incredible and will remove the #1 impediment to EV adoption for most people.
There are still some other things that need to be worked out (size/weight of batteries to get decent range, price, current lack of charging infrastructure), but that's the biggest one.
There are still some other things that need to be worked out (size/weight of batteries to get decent range, price, current lack of charging infrastructure), but that's the biggest one.
palmermd
Well-known member
Randy said:
Yep, but your talking about power approaching 1 megawatt to charge a 85kWh pack in 5 minutes. I would love to see this, but having a hard time trying to envision how they are going to accomplish this.
Valdemar said:
I don't think it's a realistic statement, without some caveats. If you consider 90% SOC "fully charged" and 10% or 15% "empty". In that case its roughly a 10C charge, which would be 850kW. I'm not sure I want to be near the car while that's happening
Like the battery swapping demo, I think JB's remarks are pointed at potential buyers and manf's who still look at EVs as "penalty vehicles". I don't think they plan to implement this anytime soon.Sublime said:Valdemar said:
I don't think it's a realistic statement, without some caveats. If you consider 90% SOC "fully charged" and 10% or 15% "empty". In that case its roughly a 10C charge, which would be 850kW. I'm not sure I want to be near the car while that's happening
I think JB was pointing out that it's not a limitation; just as their swapping demo, while impressive, may never be widely rolled out because the owners may decide they just don't need it. The main reason I see for this type of quick charging is to accommodate apartment/condo dwellers who would use this method exclusively. That's a large group of potential buyers.
Tesla has been steadily knocking down arguments against EVs. Based on recent experience with a ~400 mi drive between SoCal and the Bay Area, stopping to Supercharge added about 45 mins to my normal trip time.
I usually stop once for about 20 mins to gas up and grab a bite. So, instead of 6 hrs and change, it was ~7 hrs. I drove about 70-75 mph most of the way.
The Superchargers are a game changer. I am really impressed with Tesla's rollout so far. 90kW charging was quite adequate and the anticipated 120kW rate will make these stops a non-issue for me. Plus, the idea of free "gas" while on my journey is hard to beat!
(yes, I know I paid for it up front when I bought the car)
davewill
Well-known member
The same claim (5 minute charging) was made a couple of years ago concerning LEAF and was demonstrated in Japan, I think, but nothing has come of it for LEAF either.Valdemar said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
When this "5-10 minute" charge statement was made, they were countering Goldman Sachs downgrade of the Tesla stock value. It's Stock Market 101, folks,
No real news, but positive "news" (noise) against losses, or potential losses.
Many will recall Nissan's CEO making noise about 25% increase capacity battery for 2013 LEAF to the Wall Street Journal when the battery issues were at their peak last summer (literally on Friday night before our early Saturday morning PHX range test on Sept 15, 2012).
Naturally, it was complete BS.
No real news, but positive "news" (noise) against losses, or potential losses.
Many will recall Nissan's CEO making noise about 25% increase capacity battery for 2013 LEAF to the Wall Street Journal when the battery issues were at their peak last summer (literally on Friday night before our early Saturday morning PHX range test on Sept 15, 2012).
Naturally, it was complete BS.
GeekEV
Well-known member
Not with today's technology. But if anybody can advance the technology to the point where it would be, it'd be Tesla. I wouldn't bet against them!Valdemar said:
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