Official Tesla Model S thread

[DaveEV]

OTOH, front page article in the S.J. Mercury News yesterday, and the front page of the S.F Chronicle Business section today, covering the QC announcement:

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Tesla-adds-network-of-stations-for-recharging-3894150.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which has a major technical error in it by quoting the Model S 55 mph range instead of the EPA range when comparing to the LEAF.

Depending on how much buyers want to spend, they can choose from three different battery packs with different ranges - 160 miles per charge, 230 miles, and more than 300 miles. For comparison, the Nissan Leaf gets about 73 miles.

Of course, they'll probably be right after 5 years of use in warm climates.

 

[GRA]

Has Tesla posted EPA ranges for the 40 and 60kWh batteries?

 

[grommet]

As the lower battery versions don't formally exist yet, EPA tested results are not yet available.

 

[surfingslovak]

Another idea was an de-contented Leaf S model (no pun intended). The lower price, say $20K after subsidies, would make the Leaf a great commuter vehicle. Especially if Nissan offered an attractive lease. Besides, who really needs a nav system in a commuter car?

The problem is that all of the cost of producing the leaf is in the batteries. Removing the Nav system isn't going to save Nissan that much money. Nissan included that stuff so that owners feel like they received some amount of luxury for the high price they paid.

I think the point is to get it down below the $30k+ range. I'm not sure if that will do it, but that's certainly what they need to do if BEVs are going to make it into the mainstream (along with more range, obviously).

Looks like some things we were wondering are about to become reality. I for one can see the Leaf being a dedicated commuter and roundabout town car. We have several folks at the office that fit this profile, and they seem very content.

De-contenting: The Nissan LEAF has a lot of ‘extra’ features that really aren’t necessary if you are just looking to drive 73 miles (or less) to work everyday. Therefore, the complex navigation system is said to be on the chopping block for something less pricey.

Also, those fancy LED headlights, with their integrated aerodynamic design apparently have to go. While they are very cool, and save the car perhaps a mile or two of range when driving at night, they also add about a $1,000 to the cost of the car.

Click to open

 

[GRA]

Brad Berman drives from Lake Tahoe to L.A. in a Tesla S using the superchargers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/automobiles/on-an-electric-highway-charging-into-the-future.html?_r=1&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RegGuheert]

De-contenting: The Nissan LEAF has a lot of ‘extra’ features that really aren’t necessary if you are just looking to drive 73 miles (or less) to work everyday. Therefore, the complex navigation system is said to be on the chopping block for something less pricey.

Also, those fancy LED headlights, with their integrated aerodynamic design apparently have to go. While they are very cool, and save the car perhaps a mile or two of range when driving at night, they also add about a $1,000 to the cost of the car.

That article has an interesting title:

"Report: Nissan To Add Cheaper, Stripper Version Of LEAF To 2013 Model Lineup"

I cannot decide if the word "Stripper" was typed in error or if they accidentally inserted the comma...

On a more serious note, this part of the article caught my eye:

Suppliers:  According to reports, now that production is in the US, those 3rd party companies looking to supply parts to the LEAF will be asked to make cost reductions as high as 50% over what is being paid in Japan now.

It's interesting to read this since I had someone tell me just a week ago to expect the overall quality of the LEAFs made in Tennessee to be somewhat lower than that of those made in Japan. While reducing cost doesn't have to mean lower quality, a 50% reduction in cost in a single model year seems pretty drastic.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

On a more serious note, this part of the article caught my eye:

Suppliers:  According to reports, now that production is in the US, those 3rd party companies looking to supply parts to the LEAF will be asked to make cost reductions as high as 50% over what is being paid in Japan now.

It's interesting to read this since I had someone tell me just a week ago to expect the overall quality of the LEAFs made in Tennessee to be somewhat lower than that of those made in Japan. While reducing cost doesn't have to mean lower quality, a 50% reduction in cost in a single model year seems pretty drastic.

i think it rather presumptuous to assume "American Made" will not be as good. lets give them a chance shall we?

 

[TomT]

We shall see but historically, all the auto manufactures who opened a plant in the U.S. had quality issues the first few years of production, compared to their offshore plants...

i think it rather presumptuous to assume "American Made" will not be as good. lets give them a chance shall we?

 

[DaveEV]

We shall see but historically, all the auto manufactures who opened a plant in the U.S. had quality issues the first few years of production, compared to their offshore plants...

Nissan has been building cars for quite a while in Tennessee. It's their first USA plant and has been running since 1983. Presumably they have quite a few US based suppliers they can rely on.

 

[Zythryn]

I would guess ANY new plant built anywhere has some issues the first few years.
However, we will have to see how they do.

Tesla's only plant is in CA. Initial quality looks stunning! I look forward to seeing how the quality holds up over time.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

We shall see but historically, all the auto manufactures who opened a plant in the U.S. had quality issues the first few years of production, compared to their offshore plants...

Nissan has been building cars for quite a while in Tennessee. It's their first USA plant and has been running since 1983. Presumably they have quite a few US based suppliers they can rely on.

+1 on that. its one thing to open a plant from scratch and hire an army of new workers. that involves a rather steep ramp up and the LEAF factory i am guessing did involve some hiring but also most of the hiring was in the battery plant where the process is highly automated and computer controlled.

Since Nissan already has a trained force on site, its a much easier ramp up when you have a large trained force to a relatively smaller new hire force that can be trained by existing workers

 

[ebill3]

Isn't there already at least one thread concerning the stateside LEAF factory?

Why hijack the Tesla thread to discuss LEAF production?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Isn't there already at least one thread concerning the stateside LEAF factory?

Why hijack the Tesla thread to discuss LEAF production?

i agree with you in principal, but if i had my way. this thread would have been closed since it was primarily speculation before the fact.

now that the S is on the street, this should be closed and a new one opened for real first person posts on the real thing

Great TV Show quotes;
From "Walking Dead" episode 6 season 1. from the lone occupant of the CDC in Atlanta musing over the impending loss of power to the center which would trigger a self destruct sequence

"The Whole World runs on fossil fuel. How dumb is that?"

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I don't see any point in starting a new thread for the S, this was has been working fine. I do however see the point in not hijacking it with off topic content.

Isn't there already at least one thread concerning the stateside LEAF factory?

Why hijack the Tesla thread to discuss LEAF production?

i agree with you in principal, but if i had my way. this thread would have been closed since it was primarily speculation before the fact.

now that the S is on the street, this should be closed and a new one opened for real first person posts on the real thing

Great TV Show quotes;
From "Walking Dead" episode 6 season 1. from the lone occupant of the CDC in Atlanta musing over the impending loss of power to the center which would trigger a self destruct sequence

"The Whole World runs on fossil fuel. How dumb is that?"

 

[surfingslovak]

I don't see any point in starting a new thread for the S, this was has been working fine. I do however see the point in not hijacking it with off topic content.

That would be my bad. Couple of months ago we discussed how the Model S was too large and too expensive for a roundabout town car. Someone brought up the Leaf, since it could be regarded primarily as a commuter vehicle, and pointed out that it wasn't exactly cheap either. The consensus seemed to be that you don't necessarily need a low sticker, just an appealing overall package. Good value for your money. I wanted to follow up to those comments in the light of Jay's recent article on InsideEV. Perhaps I should have posted it to a different thread :?

 

[Herm]

The battery factory in Smyrna will be new, with new workers.. :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

I know this is nothing new but stories like these about the legality (or lack) of Tesla's store/showrooms have come up again.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1079679_tesla-accused-of-operating-illegal-showrooms-in-4-states?fbfanpage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/10/tesla-dealer-illegal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://wot.motortrend.com/dealer-associations-challenge-legality-of-factory-owned-tesla-stores-272549.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prior to rumblings like this, I hardly knew such laws existed.

(unrelated) Tesla Model S Service Contract: $600/Year, Or Warranty Voided
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079637_tesla-model-s-service-contract-600-year-or-warranty-voided" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those who hadn't seen the Tesla blog entry about the $600/year service, see http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/transforming-automotive-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[EVDrive]

$600 a year for service or a voided warranty... I was shocked to read that article today. I wonder if that is legal. The article also said you will void your warranty if you go to an independent shop.

What the heck Tesla.

 

[cwerdna]

$600 a year for service or a voided warranty... I was shocked to read that article today. I wonder if that is legal. The article also said you will void your warranty if you go to an independent shop.

What the heck Tesla.

Search for blanken at http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/transforming-automotive-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to confirm what he says and some of the discussion.
(From the user gblankenship):

So, to answer the question clearly about whether failure to do Annual or 12,500 mile Inspections voids your warranty, yes it does. We need to see your car to make sure all covered wear and tear parts are visually inspected and replaced, as needed, before they grow into bigger issues. And we want to make sure things affected by “time” are replaced on their appropriate schedule. This may not be a popular answer, but it is the best way for us to make sure you and your car are being taken care of properly.

I've gone ahead and added the page to http://archive.org/web/web.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

$600 a year for service or a voided warranty... I was shocked to read that article today. I wonder if that is legal. The article also said you will void your warranty if you go to an independent shop.

What the heck Tesla.

i talked with a Tesla Reservation holder and he verifies you do not have to go with Tesla's $600 service plan, BUT

to maintain your warranty, things MUST be done. Just as Nissan REQUIRES the annual battery check, Tesla requires annual inspections as well.

now, Tesla does not have a service center all over the country so they offer with this service plan the option of coming to your home to complete the inspection and if need be, trailering your Tesla to a service center to get the work done.

OR

you can (at your expense) take it to any certified Tesla Mechanic (if you can find one) the problem with that is (the person i talked to lives in Springfield, MO) most of the country is several hundred miles from a center and there are currently not a lot of independent mechanics running around with Tesla certs...

so, the original shock of $600 a year fades rather quickly when you consider what you are getting and what Tesla has to do to get it to you