Official Tesla Model S thread

[gaswalla]

While visiting my cousins for Thanksgiving I stopped by the Menlo Park Tesla showroom because none are near me. Comments:

GPS display is less distracting with satellite layer turned off.
Sound system in demo car did not sound impressive, but somewhat better than LEAF. I would like to hear premium sound option for comparison.
Rear seats could be uncomfortable, except for folks of less than average height, because their low height means your knees are raised and your thighs do not make good contact with the seat. LEAF rear seats also have this problem, but not as bad.

Staff told me production ramp-up is now on track to build a full 20K Model-Ss in 2013. I believe this might mean they are not yet at a full 400 units per week. Still lots of uncertainty in how much time could elapse before you would be asked to Configure your order, at which point your deposit would become non-refundable.

Sounds like you didn't drive it... That is the impressive part of the car.... Its not the rear seats

 

[ebill3]

Here's what it means (to me)....

I have a reservation in place for a Model S. My timeframe is probably next summer.

As it gets closer, Tesla will ask me to configure the car and finalize my order. Another option the buyer has is to delay the purchase but still keep the reservation. What Tesla is saying is that I won't see any price increase if I configure and finalize within a "fair predefined" timeframe. If I choose to apply a delay to my delivery, then the price increase will come along with that.

I plan on configuring and finalizing as soon as they let me, so no problem with the price increase....

Well, I am in a similar situation, and I suspect your take is correct, but I wish it was stated more clearly. I, too, will configure and commit to purchase as soon as they allow me to do so.

Bill

OK. Received the official price increase notice today. The following is quite clear.

You will likely receive your invitation to configure between now and the end of January depending upon when you made your reservation. If you configure your car and finalize your order within four weeks after receiving your invitation, you will not be subject to the price increase.

I'm good with that.

 

[sparky]

I found this interesting w.r.t. the price increase:

We have received many requests for a Battery Replacement Option. We are happy to now offer this option for all three battery variants. This option will provide you a new battery anytime after the end of the eighth year at a fixed price. Prices are as follows: $8,000 for the 40 kWh battery, $10,000 for the 60 kWh battery, and $12,000 for the 85 kWh battery. You will be able to purchase this additional option through your MyTesla page in the near future.

Granted it's 8 years in the future but I think it shows Tesla is responsive to customers' concerns and a great price... the 85kWh pack will be replaced for $141/kWh.
Your move Nissan. Seems like a 3 yr pack replacement option might be a good starting point.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I found this interesting w.r.t. the price increase:

We have received many requests for a Battery Replacement Option. We are happy to now offer this option for all three battery variants. This option will provide you a new battery anytime after the end of the eighth year at a fixed price. Prices are as follows: $8,000 for the 40 kWh battery, $10,000 for the 60 kWh battery, and $12,000 for the 85 kWh battery. You will be able to purchase this additional option through your MyTesla page in the near future.

Granted it's 8 years in the future but I think it shows Tesla is responsive to customers' concerns and a great price... the 85kWh pack will be replaced for $141/kWh.
Your move Nissan. Seems like a 3 yr pack replacement option might be a good starting point.

WOW !!!!!

 

[KJD]

I found this interesting w.r.t. the price increase:

We have received many requests for a Battery Replacement Option. We are happy to now offer this option for all three battery variants. This option will provide you a new battery anytime after the end of the eighth year at a fixed price. Prices are as follows: $8,000 for the 40 kWh battery, $10,000 for the 60 kWh battery, and $12,000 for the 85 kWh battery. You will be able to purchase this additional option through your MyTesla page in the near future.

Granted it's 8 years in the future but I think it shows Tesla is responsive to customers' concerns and a great price... the 85kWh pack will be replaced for $141/kWh.
Your move Nissan. Seems like a 3 yr pack replacement option might be a good starting point.

If you can buy an 85kwh pack in 8 years for only $12,000 does that mean that Nissan should sell me a 24kwh pack for about $3,400 in 8 years ?

 

[mkjayakumar]

If one were to extrapolate Tesla's 40 kWh pricing to Leaf's 24kWh, then it comes to $4800 for Leaf's replacement in 8 years. If you were to do this in 3 years instead, I would guess it has to be much less, something closer $3K.

 

[Jay]

I found this interesting w.r.t. the price increase:

We have received many requests for a Battery Replacement Option. We are happy to now offer this option for all three battery variants. This option will provide you a new battery anytime after the end of the eighth year at a fixed price. Prices are as follows: $8,000 for the 40 kWh battery, $10,000 for the 60 kWh battery, and $12,000 for the 85 kWh battery. You will be able to purchase this additional option through your MyTesla page in the near future.

Granted it's 8 years in the future but I think it shows Tesla is responsive to customers' concerns and a great price... the 85kWh pack will be replaced for $141/kWh.
Your move Nissan. Seems like a 3 yr pack replacement option might be a good starting point.

If you can buy an 85kwh pack in 8 years for only $12,000 does that mean that Nissan should sell me a 24kwh pack for about $3,400 in 8 years ?

I think there is some confusion here on this subject.

What Tesla is saying is that you can pre-buy the pack now, at these prices, to be installed no sooner than 8 years from now. They are not guarantee the price of the pack 8 years from now if you want to purchase it then.

Tesla likes money, and they need money now, so it makes sense to value price these packs for an unencumbered with no expenses sale today for an undetermined cost way, way off in the future.

By doing this you are really committing to this car for 15 years to get the value back out...as well as putting your faith in Tesla's long-term future. Your cost isn't $8,000 for a 40 kWh pack, it is more like $15,000-$20,000 as compared to a normalized return if invested if you just parked the cash for 8 to 10 years.

 

[KJD]

I think there is some confusion here on this subject.
What Tesla is saying is that you can pre-buy the pack now, at these prices, to be installed no sooner than 8 years from now. They are not guarantee the price of the pack 8 years from now if you want to purchase it then.
Tesla likes money, and they need money now, so it makes sense to value price these packs for an unencumbered with no expenses sale today for an undetermined cost way, way off in the future.
By doing this you are really committing to this car for 15 years to get the value back out...as well as putting your faith in Tesla's long-term future. Your cost isn't $8,000 for a 40 kWh pack, it is more like $15,000-$20,000 as compared to a normalized return if invested if you just parked the cash for 8 to 10 years.

OK you are correct I was confused on that point. Now lets make a more valid comparison.
Lets say Nissan offers me an option to pre-buy an extra 24kwh pack on a 2013 Leaf. How much should it cost today as an added on option ?

 

[mkjayakumar]

the critical question is, after how many years can you exercise that option ? 3, 5 or 8 years ?

Obviously 8 years is moot, as the Leaf packs won't last I guess even 5 years. I would suggest a 3 year option is the most sensible one, and Nissan has to factor in the value of a used 3 years 70% capacity available pack.

 

[LEAFer]

Lets say Nissan offers me an option to pre-buy an extra 24kwh pack on a 2013 Leaf. How much should it cost today as an added on option ?

10% of the MSRP for a 5 year option. (Just my 2c.)

(Note: that is what Tesla did for Roadster owners with a 7 year plan. Some of those owners are now half-way thru the program.)

 

[Jay]

I think there is some confusion here on this subject.
What Tesla is saying is that you can pre-buy the pack now, at these prices, to be installed no sooner than 8 years from now. They are not guarantee the price of the pack 8 years from now if you want to purchase it then.
Tesla likes money, and they need money now, so it makes sense to value price these packs for an unencumbered with no expenses sale today for an undetermined cost way, way off in the future.
By doing this you are really committing to this car for 15 years to get the value back out...as well as putting your faith in Tesla's long-term future. Your cost isn't $8,000 for a 40 kWh pack, it is more like $15,000-$20,000 as compared to a normalized return if invested if you just parked the cash for 8 to 10 years.

OK you are correct I was confused on that point. Now lets make a more valid comparison.
Lets say Nissan offers me an option to pre-buy an extra 24kwh pack on a 2013 Leaf. How much should it cost today as an added on option ?

the critical question is, after how many years can you exercise that option ? 3, 5 or 8 years ?

Obviously 8 years is moot, as the Leaf packs won't last I guess even 5 years. I would suggest a 3 year option is the most sensible one, and Nissan has to factor in the value of a used 3 years 70% capacity available pack.

Using Tesla's formula of 40 kWh for $8,000, the 24 kWh LEAF pack would be $4,800 prepaid today for 8 years time.

For most of the country, accelerated LEAF pack degradation drop to an unusable level is not a reality, so 8 years is still realistic for most...depending on your threshold and usage pattern.

$4,800 today if left unchecked in a normalized return investment (which of course there is no guarantee) would be around $9,000 in 8 years time. I don't think that is a raging value...but rather just decent.

Only caveat that might make it worth while is if it also pre-pays all the installation work and guarantees any incidentals that could come up...which could be significant on a 8 year old car. The increasing value of that labour and parts would negate any inflationary/return on cash equity math you might be doing on that portion of the equation.

 

[LEAFer]

The increasing value of that labour and parts would negate any inflationary/return on cash equity math you might be doing on that portion of the equation.

RIGHT ! That's why I think 10% of MSRP is a good deal. But due to the lower EPA range I would like to see a 5 year option, rather than Tesla's 7 (Roadster) or 8 years (Model S).

( And I am assuming "installed cost" (not just parts), excluding sales tax (due at time of sale), with any needed repairs (to enable the install) covered by owner. )

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

LOL!!! are we serious??

would i want to pay $X for something today that i cannot have for at least 3 years like a LEAF battery pack that is pretty much already obsolete?

we need to take a step back. i can see someone prepaying for an 85 KWh pack in a $100,000 car because it probably wont be too far out of date in 8 years, but to pay in advance for a non TMS 24 Kwh pack? especially when we already have inklings of a pack change for 2014?

 

[gaswalla]

The increasing value of that labour and parts would negate any inflationary/return on cash equity math you might be doing on that portion of the equation.

RIGHT ! That's why I think 10% of MSRP is a good deal. But due to the lower EPA range I would like to see a 5 year option, rather than Tesla's 7 (Roadster) or 8 years (Model S).

( And I am assuming "installed cost" (not just parts), excluding sales tax (due at time of sale), with any needed repairs (to enable the install) covered by owner. )

The Model S was designed to allow for quick battery "swapping" - thus, the labor and parts issues are not a major issue. It would be a MAJOR issue for the LEAF though.

 

[LEAFer]

The Model S was designed to allow for quick battery "swapping" - thus, the labor and parts issues are not a major issue. It would be a MAJOR issue for the LEAF though.

True on the first part; but I don't think it's a HUGE issue for the LEAF. It's a matter of simply changing all the modules, which (IIRC) has been described elsewhere in this forum as not that big a deal. Yes, you have to open the pack ... but I think there's a relatively simple procedure for that. The Tesla Roadster is a major operation due to the TMS. Speaking of which ...

LOL!!! are we serious??
... to pay in advance for a non TMS 24 Kwh pack? ...

That's a good point ! Maybe I should withdraw my 10%/5-year offer :lol:

 

[mkjayakumar]

I see that a separate topic has been created for discussion on Model S battery prices and its implications on Leaf. Perhaps we can continue this discussion over there ? I think this deserves its own thread.

 

[ebill3]

Does anybody know the cost increase? I was planning to make the deposit on Dec 10 for an S-85(P?).

You are OK. Increase is $2,500 for reservations starting January 1, 2013.

http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-motors-sets-new-pricing-awardwinning-model-s

 

[ebill3]

I see that a separate topic has been created for discussion on Model S battery prices and its implications on Leaf. Perhaps we can continue this discussion over there ? I think this deserves its own thread.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10770

 

[edatoakrun]

I don't recall all the actual price increases and option changes posted before.

The price increase announced on Thursday applies to new reservations starting on Jan. 1, 2013. It does not apply to existing reservation holders, as of Dec. 31, 2012, as "long as they finalize their order within a reasonable, predefined time-frame after being invited to configure their Model S." If a reservation holder does not finalize their order quickly enough, their reservation does not go away but it'll reflect the new prices.

The actual price increase is $2,500 for each model ($2,600CAD in Canada) putting the base prices at $59,900 for the 40 kilowatt-hour model, $69,900 for 60 kilowatt-hours, and $79,900 for 85 kilowatt-hours. Tesla Motors points out that other automakers have had three opportunities to increase prices since 2009. These prices are before any tax credits.

The Model S pricing changes came along with several other changes:

To soften the blow of the price increase, all Model S varieties will now include 12-way adjustable, heated front seats as standard equipment at no charge.

The Performance Package will now include 19" wheels as standard equipment and 21” wheels and tires will be a $3,500 option.

Model S comes standard with a Four Year, 50,000 mile New Vehicle Warranty. An additional Four Year, 50,000 mile Extended Warranty will now be available for $2,500.

New options are available for the prepaid maintenance program. Several months ago it had been announced as a Four Year, up to 50,000 Mile Prepaid Maintenance program for $1,900, or $2,400 with unlimited Tesla Ranger visits. Model S owners can now purchase an additional Four Years and 50,000 miles of Prepaid Maintenance for an additional $1,900, or $2,400 with unlimited Tesla Ranger visits. This means Model S owners can cover everything on their car, except tires, for eight years and up to 100,000 miles for $3,800, or $4,800 with unlimited Tesla Ranger visits....

http://www.torquenews.com/1075/tesla-sweetens-model-s-price-increase-better-standard-equipment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mwalsh]

Saw my first Model S in the wild today. Actually, maybe the first time I've seen one in the metal, period. Didn't impress massively, blending in with other cars on the highway more than I thought it would. It looked more like a big Jaguar than anything else to me.