Padding MSRP With Accessories

[Loggerhead]

Hello, All. I’m planning to purchase a 2023 Leaf in January. I’ve done the usual due diligence and noticed that the window stickers for Leafs in my area have about $1500 in “Options included by the Manufacturer” added to the MSRP. Is it possible to order a car and specify what, if any, accessories are wanted?

 

[Toby]

One thing I've noticed with car dealers (all of them, not just Nissan) is their temptation to pad their costs. Find out just exactly is included in "Options included by the Manufacturer” above and beyond the version you select. For example, if you order a Leaf SV, what is the dealer adding? I can imagine gloss coating the paint and undercoating areas that might rust. They should tell you.

 

[Loggerhead]

Nothing is being added by the dealer. The window sticker says the accessories have been added by the manufacturer. My question is whether it is possible to specify through the dealer just what I want to buy. Has anyone had experience ordering a car as opposed to buying a car that had already been delivered to the dealership ?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I believe that GerryAZ orders his Leafs. He should be able to answer this.

 

[jjeff]

Don't know about a new Leaf but my recently delivered RAV4 prime included over a thousand dollars of manufacture-installed options I didn't ask for nor want. Things like sill plate guards, hatch guards, nice weather-tech like floor mats, etc. As they were manufacture-installed they were on the Monrey sticker and the dealer would not take it off, I could have said no and turned down the vehicle but as I'd already been waiting over 2 years for it and who knows how long it would be for one that didn't include the crap, I bit the bullet I just figured it was part of the price of the vehicle and I'm sure Nissan is doing the same.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Don't know about a new Leaf but my recently delivered RAV4 prime included over a thousand dollars of manufacture-installed options I didn't ask for nor want. Things like sill plate guards, hatch guards, nice weather-tech like floor mats, etc. As they were manufacture-installed they were on the Monrey sticker and the dealer would not take it off, I could have said no and turned down the vehicle but as I'd already been waiting over 2 years for it and who knows how long it would be for one that didn't include the crap, I bit the bullet I just figured it was part of the price of the vehicle and I'm sure Nissan is doing the same.

Toyota does port installed accessories and it's pricey compared to everyone else.

BTW, why did you decide to keep the Prime knowing you lost the $7500 tax credit?

 

[Nubo]

Is it possible to order a car and specify what, if any, accessories are wanted?

I'd certainly hope so. I've done this in the past with other makes though in each case there was a substantial wait time. I did have one experience where a Toyota salesperson flatly refused a custom order. I promptly walked next door to a Mazda dealership who were more than happy to accomodate me.

 

[jjeff]

Don't know about a new Leaf but my recently delivered RAV4 prime included over a thousand dollars of manufacture-installed options I didn't ask for nor want. Things like sill plate guards, hatch guards, nice weather-tech like floor mats, etc. As they were manufacture-installed they were on the Monrey sticker and the dealer would not take it off, I could have said no and turned down the vehicle but as I'd already been waiting over 2 years for it and who knows how long it would be for one that didn't include the crap, I bit the bullet I just figured it was part of the price of the vehicle and I'm sure Nissan is doing the same.

Toyota does port installed accessories and it's pricey compared to everyone else.

BTW, why did you decide to keep the Prime knowing you lost the $7500 tax credit?

We were starting to worry about the overall reliability of our '07 Prius and also wanted to get something higher as well as AWD, oh and the kicker was I wanted something with decent(>30 miles) EV range. We had been waiting over 2-years and truthfully didn't believe anything else fitting our bill would materialize in the next 2-years. Sure you hear and see a lot about vehicles that would have met all our requirements but when it comes down to actually purchasing one, the numbers drop to zero to make matters worse many aren't even available in my state, a state not mandating a certain fuel economy average. Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500 but I didn't see that changing again in the next couple of years and it was time to make a move.
In hind site we would have flown out to RI back in '20-'21 near the pandemic and drove a Prime back then but hind site is 20/20.
In one way a decent<$50k 250-mile EV would have probably been a better fit for us and then either rent or car swap with a friend for our couple times/year longer range trips but even those kind of vehicles with our wishlist are basically non-existent in our state, maybe in 10-15 years when we'll probably be in the market for another vehicle they'll finally be commonplace but for now, they are not, no matter what advertising or the media would like you to believe!
In the meantime I've got 2 older Leafs to sell as well as a Prius, not to mention my old Scion Xb that I probably have sold, time to get down on the number of vehicles in my driveway, it's a PIA to keep them driven and brushed off of all the daily snow we've been getting as of late.

 

[SageBrush]

Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500

Why did that happen ?

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500

Why did that happen ?

When Biden signed the IRA on 8/16, it made all plug ins not built in North America ineligible for the tax credit. A lot of cars are ineligible now: Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, VW built overseas, Ariya, etc. Starting next year, the tax credit could be $0, $3750, or $7500 depending on the battery. There will be an income limit too.

 

[SageBrush]

Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500

Why did that happen ?

When Biden signed the IRA on 8/16, it made all plug ins not built in North America ineligible for the tax credit. A lot of cars are ineligible now: Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, VW built overseas, Ariya, etc. Starting next year, the tax credit could be $0, $3750, or $7500 depending on the battery. There will be an income limit too.

Huh. I was under the impression that the rules took effect Jan 2023

 

[jjeff]

Why did that happen ?

When Biden signed the IRA on 8/16, it made all plug ins not built in North America ineligible for the tax credit. A lot of cars are ineligible now: Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, VW built overseas, Ariya, etc. Starting next year, the tax credit could be $0, $3750, or $7500 depending on the battery. There will be an income limit too.

Huh. I was under the impression that the rules took effect Jan 2023

Not from what I've read on MNL, if that is not the case I'll definitely be able to take advantage of the whole $7500 as the RAV4 Prime has a large enough battery and I have enough tax liability to claim the whole thing guess I'll know when I go to do my taxes. And then there's the whole think about Toyota buyers only getting $3750(1/2) as at some point Toyota sold too many EVs to qualify for the whole $7500 which really makes me wonder why Nissan and their Leafs you see all over hadn't/hasn't sold too many.....the whole thing is very confusing and the Toyota dealer knew nothing about rebates. Although they cared enough to have brochures titled "Drive California Cars Out Of Minnesota" in their lobby which stated "California Car Regulations Could Be Coming To Minnesota" giving us "Higher Costs and Less Consumer Choice" :roll:
For anyone looking for a laugh and I truly believe it's a laugh put on by ignorant people, their website is:
www.driveAwayCACars.org
Long live the large pickup truck :lol:

 

[SageBrush]

Huh. I was under the impression that the rules took effect Jan 2023

Not from what I've read on MNL, if that is not the case I'll definitely be able to take advantage of the whole $7500 as the RAV4 Prime has a

Here is I think the relevant snippet from a Kiplinger's article at
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605081/ev-tax-credit-inflation-reduction-act-2022-changes#:~:text=EVs%20Purchased%20and%20Delivered%20Between,the%20final%20assembly%20requirement%20applies.

EV Tax Credit 2022
What happens to the EV tax credit for the rest of 2022? The Inflation Reduction Act offers some relief for EV buyers who have written, binding sales contracts from this year to purchase EVs that will be placed in service or delivered on, or after, August 16, 2022, or in 2023.

Essentially, if you purchased an electric vehicle before the Inflation Reduction Act became effective (so before August 16, 2022), and that vehicle is otherwise eligible for the old EV tax credit, you can claim that credit under the rules that applied before the Inflation Reduction Act became law. That's true even if you don't take possession of the EV until after August 16, 2022. Also, the North American final assembly requirement doesn't apply before August 16, 2022. But remember: You need to have a written, binding sales contract to substantiate your claim for the EV tax credit.

EVs Purchased and Delivered Between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022: If you purchase and take possession of your EV between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022, the rules for claiming the EV tax credit before the IRA became law, still apply, except that the final assembly requirement applies. So, you'll need to check to see if the EV you purchased meets the final assembly requirement in the Inflation Reduction Act (i.e., is eligible for the EV tax credit).

I read this to mean that if you had a binding contract to buy the Prime before 08/16/2022 and you take delivery of the car, you are eligible for whatever credit applied before the ACA was signed. But as you say, the old credit was tied to number of *EV's sold, and Toyota passed the 200k threshold in Q2/2022, thereby setting in motion a phase-out period. So your credit will be determined by your delivery date, as outlined in
https://insideevs.com/news/596120/toyota-third-manufacturer-200000-plugins/

 

[knightmb]

Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500

Why did that happen ?

When Biden signed the IRA on 8/16, it made all plug ins not built in North America ineligible for the tax credit. A lot of cars are ineligible now: Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, VW built overseas, Ariya, etc. Starting next year, the tax credit could be $0, $3750, or $7500 depending on the battery. There will be an income limit too.

You mean this list?
Guess it depends on which side is going to benefit, USA workers vs. Foreign workers.
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/electric-vehicles-for-tax-credit

 

[jjeff]

Huh. I was under the impression that the rules took effect Jan 2023

Not from what I've read on MNL, if that is not the case I'll definitely be able to take advantage of the whole $7500 as the RAV4 Prime has a

Here is I think the relevant snippet from a Kiplinger's article at
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605081/ev-tax-credit-inflation-reduction-act-2022-changes#:~:text=EVs%20Purchased%20and%20Delivered%20Between,the%20final%20assembly%20requirement%20applies.

EV Tax Credit 2022
What happens to the EV tax credit for the rest of 2022? The Inflation Reduction Act offers some relief for EV buyers who have written, binding sales contracts from this year to purchase EVs that will be placed in service or delivered on, or after, August 16, 2022, or in 2023.

Essentially, if you purchased an electric vehicle before the Inflation Reduction Act became effective (so before August 16, 2022), and that vehicle is otherwise eligible for the old EV tax credit, you can claim that credit under the rules that applied before the Inflation Reduction Act became law. That's true even if you don't take possession of the EV until after August 16, 2022. Also, the North American final assembly requirement doesn't apply before August 16, 2022. But remember: You need to have a written, binding sales contract to substantiate your claim for the EV tax credit.

EVs Purchased and Delivered Between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022: If you purchase and take possession of your EV between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022, the rules for claiming the EV tax credit before the IRA became law, still apply, except that the final assembly requirement applies. So, you'll need to check to see if the EV you purchased meets the final assembly requirement in the Inflation Reduction Act (i.e., is eligible for the EV tax credit).

I read this to mean that if you had a binding contract to buy the Prime before 08/16/2022 and you take delivery of the car, you are eligible for whatever credit applied before the ACA was signed. But as you say, the old credit was tied to number of *EV's sold, and Toyota passed the 200k threshold in Q2/2022, thereby setting in motion a phase-out period. So your credit will be determined by your delivery date, as outlined in
https://insideevs.com/news/596120/toyota-third-manufacturer-200000-plugins/

Thanks Sagebrush, so as I took delivery in early November and everything about my vehicle was Japan, it sounds like I'm SOL
Yes I could have turned it down and waited until Toyota starts building their batteries in the US but after 2 years I wasn't going wait potentially another 2 years or more if ever, again I wasn't happy but it was my choice. Although as I was always planning on getting one I never narrowed down if I'd get my $500(now up to $1k) deposit if I canceled my order, again a small part in me deciding to just purchase it even if I might not get the tax credit.

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks Sagebrush, so as I took delivery in early November and everything about my vehicle was Japan, it sounds like I'm SOL

When did you sign a contract ?

 

[jjeff]

Thanks Sagebrush, so as I took delivery in early November and everything about my vehicle was Japan, it sounds like I'm SOL

When did you sign a contract ?

I ordered more than 2 years prior but the signing of the actual contract wasn't done until we picked it up in November and wrote the check less the deposit.

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks Sagebrush, so as I took delivery in early November and everything about my vehicle was Japan, it sounds like I'm SOL

When did you sign a contract ?

I ordered more than 2 years prior but the signing of the actual contract wasn't done until we picked it up in November and wrote the check less the deposit.

Then the question boils down to this:
Does an order + deposit satisfy the IRS ?

I imagine this will decided in tax court ... one day.
In the meantime, if it was me I would submit the forms for the credit when the tax return is submitted but NOT take the credit. Let the IRS decide you made an error and send you a check. You still might decide to not cash the check, but that way time will have passed and you might gain some clarification in the meantime.

 

[jjeff]

When did you sign a contract ?

I ordered more than 2 years prior but the signing of the actual contract wasn't done until we picked it up in November and wrote the check less the deposit.

Then the question boils down to this:
Does an order + deposit satisfy the IRS ?

I imagine this will decided in tax court ... one day.
In the meantime, if it was me I would submit the forms for the credit when the tax return is submitted but NOT take the credit. Let the IRS decide you made an error and send you a check. You still might decide to not cash the check, but that way time will have passed and you might gain some clarification in the meantime.

That's actually a very good idea, thanks I'm going to do that. Actually, I inadvertently did that last year on a school credit for my daughter, I filled everything out but as TurboTax for some unknown reason wouldn't let me e-file it claiming the credit, I didn't take the credit. We got our return about a month later, less the credit but then about 4 months later we got a second check with a letter saying there was a mistake with my filing and we were due this much more. My wife was a little leary about cashing it as it was a somewhat large amount but I said as they had all our information, which was accurate and the IRS deemed we were owed it, it must be the case and we cashed it, fingers crossed.
As Turbo Tax was the one last time saying we couldn't claim the school credit it somehow removed it but must have included the information to the IRS, not 100% how I myself can enter everything for the credit but then just not take the credit but hopefully it will be self-explanatory at the time of filing. What I don't really want is to claim the credit as I myself have some reservations as to whether I'm eligible, again fingers crossed. I wonder if I should put down $7500 or the $3750.....again I won't be claiming it but not sure how far to take it.

 

[Flyct]

..................... Yes it sucked we missed out on the $7500 but I didn't see that changing again in the next couple of years and it was time to make a move

'

A RAV4 Prime Plug-in Hybrid 2021-2022 Acquired 10/1/2022 through 12/31/2022 Qualifies for $3,750

A RAV4 Prime Plug-in Hybrid 2021-2022 Acquired through 9/30/2022 Qualifies for $7,500