Stuck behind a Leaf in HOV lane

[lonndoggie]

For me the white stickers mean as much as an hour a day that I'm home with my girls instead of parked on the 405.

If I were you, I'd want 'em, too.

For my commute, I don't even get on the freeway going to work. Going home I do, but the carpool lane doesn't even exist for most of it, and traffic's only bad for a few miles. Most of the time the freeway flows pretty well around here, so it hasn't been on my mind. Guess I'm a lucky so-n-so.

A friend with a Leaf here in San Diego also hasn't gotten and won't get the HOV stickers, for the same reasons as me. Our freeway conditions help make that decision, as is also the case for your opposite decision.

 

[fooljoe]

For me the white stickers mean as much as an hour a day that I'm home with my girls instead of parked on the 405.

If I were you, I'd want 'em, too.

For my commute, I don't even get on the freeway going to work. Going home I do, but the carpool lane doesn't even exist for most of it, and traffic's only bad for a few miles. Most of the time the freeway flows pretty well around here, so it hasn't been on my mind. Guess I'm a lucky so-n-so.

A friend with a Leaf here in San Diego also hasn't gotten and won't get the HOV stickers, for the same reasons as me. Our freeway conditions help make that decision, as is also the case for your opposite decision.

Understood, although you may want to consider getting them anyway, even if you don't put them on. I believe there is a limit on how many stickers can be issued to ZEVs by a given manufacturer, and of course the law can change at any time. If/when you decide to sell the Leaf the $8 the stickers cost will probably be the best investment you've ever made; there are a lot of folks out there like me who'd love to make good use of them.

 

[planet4ever]

There is no minimum speed limit on any lane of any freeway in California unless it has an explicitly posted minimum. That's the law.

There is http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22400.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Minimum Speed Law) though...

Exactly. That is the section I was thinking of when I wrote what I did.

Whenever the Department of Transportation determines on the basis of an engineering and traffic survey that slow speeds on any part of a state highway consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the department may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle, except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law, when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected along the part of the highway for which a minimum speed limit is established.

Ray

 

[waitingforaleaf]

Under current legislation, there isn't a limit on the number of white HOV stickers issued in California (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and with them set to expire January 1, 2015 anyways, leasers will be returning their cars before then and owners will likely keep their vehicles longer past that deadline.

What will likely be more valuable is the green HOV stickers, which are limited to the first 40000 applicants, for eligible PHEVs beginning on January 1, 2012.

 

[fooljoe]

Ok I must have been thinking of the greens for the limit thing, but the key phrase is "under current legislation." Whenever EV production starts to ramp up, I'd be very surprised if some sort of limit on the white stickers isn't imposed. And if we suppose that someone will buy the car in the future and still be able to apply for the stickers himself, you having already done the legwork with the DMV - saving him a potentially months-long wait - is alone worth far more than the $8.

Also, one can hope that the 2015 deadline gets extended again. Anyway, the future is uncertain, but it's $8. One would have to be incredibly certain about never wanting to use the HOV lane and keeping the car until 2015 and the law never changing not to just plunk down the $8.

Now the $17 ZEV parking pass, on the other hand, was apparently a complete rip-off...

 

[lkkms2]

For many years, I never realized that flashing your brights to signal someone to move over was illegal until I'd heard about it somewhere (esp. since many cars have it as a feature). I dug up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight_flashing#United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on its legality or not.

I believe this wikipedia is out of date for California. One or two years back I believe there was a new law that requires you to pull over if you are in the fast lane and someone flashes their lights at you. I do not know all the reasons this was passed, but you never know if the person behind you has an emergency. Also, perhaps to avoid road rage situations.

 

[Packet]

Regarding Union Hill Road, are you sure that's the right place? Perhaps you're talking about Novelty Hill Road around this segment? http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Northeast+Novelty+Hill+Road,+Redmond,+WA&hl=en&ll=47.702542,-122.005405&spn=0.011206,0.066047&sll=47.701993,-122.005963&sspn=0.024954,0.066047&vpsrc=6&z=15&layer=c&cbll=47.70223,-122.004412&panoid=rEJQ_WoLkD-pJlMChmsbWQ&cbp=11,46.73,,0,6.37" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same region, different road. Novelty Hill Road would probably be way worse if you encountered tailgaters there, but for whatever reason I don't see that there so much. (Mind you, I also don't drive that one so often.)

This is the descent after the first turn on Union Hill Road. The hill itself is nothing special (though a bit steeper than it looks on Street View), but horrible for tailgaters. (Maybe because it's the final approach to 520?)

 

[davewill]

Flow of traffic is a defense when exceeding th eposted speed limit. You can still be cited, but flow of traffic is defined in the CA Vehicle code, and if memory serves it is 5 vehicles all doing the same speed, and that speed is safe for road conditions...

Nope, it's no defense of speeding at all. Now, doing the speed limit isn't an excuse for NOT pulling over when traffic backs up, you still need to do that, but there's NEVER an excuse* for exceeding the maximum speed limit.

* OK, if you're driving a bus that has a bomb on board set to blow if you go slower than 70, THEN you have an excuse for speeding...

 

[cwerdna]

For many years, I never realized that flashing your brights to signal someone to move over was illegal until I'd heard about it somewhere (esp. since many cars have it as a feature). I dug up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight_flashing#United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on its legality or not.

I believe this wikipedia is out of date for California. One or two years back I believe there was a new law that requires you to pull over if you are in the fast lane and someone flashes their lights at you. I do not know all the reasons this was passed, but you never know if the person behind you has an emergency. Also, perhaps to avoid road rage situations.

Source?

 

[Packet]

OK, if you're driving a bus that has a bomb on board set to blow if you go slower than 70, THEN you have an excuse for speeding...

But then you need an excuse for such an awful movie.

 

[csriram45]

I used to drive at 70 on my ICE and now drive at 58 - 60 and times going to 55 when driving on 680 to pleasanton and on my way back. The sunol grade does take a good toll on the batteries. I however stick to the right most lanes at times moving over to allow merging of traffic and then go back. I have noticed that the slowing has only resulted in my reaching work 5 minutes later on a 26 mile commute.

I am not sure the complete picture is known here. What was the speed of the lanes next to HOV? If it was a dead stop traffic and the Leaf was driving at 50 - 55 I think its fair. I have seen way too many people who tend to get in and get out of HOV lanes so the person might have had 2 reasons to go slow. range as well as safety.

I think eventually going on HOV at 50 - 55 when the rest of the lanes are going at 5 is still ok. People behind do get to reach their destination too and I think going above that speed is a recipe for disaster.

If the person was driving at 50 - 55 on left HOV when the other lanes were moving relatively fast then I can understand, otherwise I think its still alright. I believe at the end a person should drive at a speed they think they can drive safe.

I am sure others disagree and I am ready to be flamed. <flame suit on>

 

[planet4ever]

Maybe I'm just a timid old man who shouldn't ever be in the HOV lanes, but I have used them in the past in heavy traffic with two people in the car. Frankly, I've been scared to drive more than about 20 mph faster than the cars in the next lane, because I wouldn't have time to respond if someone ducked over in front of me. I may not be the only one, because HOV lane traffic does slow down dramatically when the rest of the freeway drops to a crawl.

Ray

 

[csriram45]

Maybe I'm just a timid old man who shouldn't ever be in the HOV lanes, but I have used them in the past in heavy traffic with two people in the car. Frankly, I've been scared to drive more than about 20 mph faster than the cars in the next lane, because I wouldn't have time to respond if someone ducked over in front of me. I may not be the only one, because HOV lane traffic does slow down dramatically when the rest of the freeway drops to a crawl.

Ray

I don't think it has to do with age. You are right that driving any speed over 20 miles/hr over the speed in your next lane is dangerous regardless of it being a EV or ICE vehicle. There always someone who decides to merge IN or slow down to take the exit. OP might want to give more info regarding the traffic in other lane.

 

[smkettner]

Maybe I'm just a timid old man who shouldn't ever be in the HOV lanes, but I have used them in the past in heavy traffic with two people in the car. Frankly, I've been scared to drive more than about 20 mph faster than the cars in the next lane, because I wouldn't have time to respond if someone ducked over in front of me. I may not be the only one, because HOV lane traffic does slow down dramatically when the rest of the freeway drops to a crawl.

Ray

This is covered in the minimum speed law to operate a vehicle no faster than is safe.

 

[KeithFrechette]

Agreed. I am conditioned to feel uncomfortable when going, say, 60 MPH beside a lane going 5 MPH. I do try to cruise at a reasonable speed, though, and stay alert to quickly reduce speed if someone jumps into the lane. I am also conditioned (and I like it this way) to feel uncomfortable tailgaiting anyone. I was raised on the 2-second rule (between cars), and my spidy-senses start tingling when I start to break that rule. When traveling beside a slow lane, I increase my following distance to: 1) allow more time to react to lane jumpers, and 2) to allow/encourage legit lane changes into my lane so that people eligible to be in that lane are able to get in.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

The 2-second rule is nice and would prevent a lot of accidents. However, it is completely impractical on urban California freeways. If everyone obeyed it, the freeways would never get over 15MPH.

I am upset over the mixed message we send our kids when we teach them to follow at a 2-second interval and then put them on a freeway. However, I don't have a good answer.

 

[smkettner]

The 2-second rule is nice and would prevent a lot of accidents. However, it is completely impractical on urban California freeways. If everyone obeyed it, the freeways would never get over 15MPH.

I disagree. I think traffic could improve if more space was left between vehicles. In bumper to bumper 10 mph traffic it may not matter. In 25 to 45 mph traffic I think the over reaction due to tailgating exagerates how much a person must slow down causing a wave effect that transmits back down the highway until there is a sufficient gap. This also creates a gap in front of the excessive slowing as people are then slow to reaccelerate. Especially large trucks that can take a long time to get back to speed. JMHO, I am not a traffic engineer.

 

[Devin]

If anyone is interested in understanding traffic patterns and their associated issues I'd highly recommend reading "Traffic: Why We Drive The Way We Do" by Tom Vanderbilt. It's a fairly quick read and it's very easy to understand even if you're not an urban planning nerd like I am. Gives some very interesting insight into alternative concepts about road building and what things really do make a difference. One of the most interesting things I found was the explanation of how the human brain perceives things moving at speed and how our behavior in traffic relates to our caveman brains. Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0307277194/wwwjanceedunc-20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DeaneG]

There always someone who decides to merge IN or slow down to take the exit. OP might want to give more info regarding the traffic in other lane.

The adjacent lane was moving about 40-50mph. The newbie Leaf was moving just a bit faster in the HOV lane. There was excellent visibility for merging in or out of the lane. Typical HOV speed for most drivers in this situation would have been about 65mph, some faster.

 

[cwerdna]

The 2-second rule is nice and would prevent a lot of accidents. However, it is completely impractical on urban California freeways. If everyone obeyed it, the freeways would never get over 15MPH.

I am upset over the mixed message we send our kids when we teach them to follow at a 2-second interval and then put them on a freeway. However, I don't have a good answer.

The crazy part is that http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/scanning.htm#visualsearch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; refers to the three-second rule. Unfortunately, I agree. It's not very practical in many situations on CA freeways.

In So Cal, leaving such a big gap in heavy traffic would mean lots of people cutting in front of you.