Tesla Cybertruck

[lorenfb]

Unless you have some concrete numbers as to why the Cybertruck can't be built for the suggested sales price, I'll believe Musk.

How about Tesla's past performance, i.e. delivering the M3 to its initially quoted $35K? It's highly questionable that you or anyone else
has the detailed cost structure for the CT build to comment on the viability of Elon's "estimated pricing" for the various CT models.
We all know the typical Tesla strategy, low-ball the price at intro and then up-sell at delivery time, right?

In other words, you have nothing.

And where's your detailed spreadsheet cost analysis, especially realistic projected battery costs? Also, did you miss this;

Tesla changed the release dates for the most and least expensive versions of the Cybertruck by a year

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cybertruck-release-date-some-models-coming-sooner-than-expected-2019-12

That basically gives Elon a near term "out" for the cheapest CT, i.e. like what happened with the $35K M3.
Elon needs to avoid "smoking", when he tweets new product info!

 

[EVDRIVER]

How about Tesla's past performance, i.e. delivering the M3 to its initially quoted $35K? It's highly questionable that you or anyone else
has the detailed cost structure for the CT build to comment on the viability of Elon's "estimated pricing" for the various CT models.
We all know the typical Tesla strategy, low-ball the price at intro and then up-sell at delivery time, right?

In other words, you have nothing.

And where's your detailed spreadsheet cost analysis? Also, did you miss this;

Tesla changed the release dates for the most and least expensive versions of the Cybertruck by a year

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cybertruck-release-date-some-models-coming-sooner-than-expected-2019-12

That basically gives Elon a near term "out" for the cheapest CT, i.e. like what happened with the $35K M3.
Elon needs to avoid "smoking", when he tweets new product info!

Let him know you won't be ordering. I'm sure you are upset.

 

[lorenfb]

The costs, production and reliability of the CT will be similar to that of the MX, i.e. more costly/problematic.
Any CT costs, production, or reliability comparison based on the M3 is unrealistic. Remember, the M3
was basically just a scaled MS, with some improvements, e.g. PM motor & 2170 batteries.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The costs, production and reliability of the CT will be similar to that of the MX, i.e. more costly/problematic.
Any CT costs, production, or reliability comparison based on the M3 is unrealistic. Remember, the M3
was basically just a scaled MS, with some improvements, e.g. PM motor & 2170 batteries.

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S, this shows how you little you know about the platforms. Now you propose to know about the reliability of the CT relative to the X. LOL! You act as though you are a Tesla technical expert yet you continue to demonstrate how you know nothing whatsoever and have every technical assertion you make here proven wrong. You have only one reason to be in the Tesla threads and I suggest you go back to lurking like before.

 

[cwerdna]

Elon Musk Takes Cybertruck Out for First Public Spin, Dinner at Nobu
https://www.tmz.com/2019/12/08/elon-musk-cybertruck-first-time-public-malibu-nobu/ - something gets knocked over at the 50 second mark

 

[lorenfb]

Elon Musk Takes Cybertruck Out for First Public Spin, Dinner at Nobu
https://www.tmz.com/2019/12/08/elon-musk-cybertruck-first-time-public-malibu-nobu/ - something gets knocked over at the 50 second mark

A needed ego refill after the CT intro downer!

 

[lorenfb]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans, and as I said, the M3 got some new tech. That's hardly a significant development/production effort
as would be needed for a SUV (MX) or a truck (CT). The M3 had very few development/production problems. Most

 

[johnlocke]

You can't reason with lorenfb, you can't shame him, and you can't expect him to reply with facts. He has a right to his opinions. He has no right to make things up and imply that they are facts. I'd ignore him but his posts are misleading at best and someone has to reply to to them in the interest of truth.

 

[lorenfb]

You can't reason with lorenfb, you can't shame him, and you can't expect him to reply with facts. He has a right to his opinions. He has no right to make things up and imply that they are facts. I'd ignore him but his posts are misleading at best and someone has to reply to to them in the interest of truth.

Make things up? You're the one who's speculating about a future Tesla vehicle, presently a prototype, based on Elon's wish list.
I expressed my view about the future CT based on historical vehicle delivery problems, e.g. the MX, that have occurred at Tesla
and would most likely affect the CT before actual deliveries occur years from now. Refute that!

No need for ad hominem statements, which often occur from another forum member.

 

[webb14leafs]

You can't reason with lorenfb, you can't shame him, and you can't expect him to reply with facts. He has a right to his opinions. He has no right to make things up and imply that they are facts. I'd ignore him but his posts are misleading at best and someone has to reply to to them in the interest of truth.

Make things up? You're the one who's speculating about a future Tesla vehicle, presently a prototype, based on Elon's wish list.
I expressed my view about the future CT based on historical vehicle delivery problems, e.g. the MX, that have occurred at Tesla
and would most likely affect the CT before actual deliveries occur years from now. Refute that!

No need for ad hominem statements, which often occur from another forum member.

I think we all understand that we are speculating. It's fun to speculate. Not sure why a couple of people on these boards need to try and disrupt a simple conversation. The naysayers have been wrong about the ever impending demise of the company ever since I joined this forum over 2 years ago.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans, and as I said, the M3 got some new tech. That's hardly a significant development/production effort
as would be needed for a SUV (MX) or a truck (CT). The M3 had very few development/production problems. Most

Wrong. The drives, the entire pack and every electronic and every other mechanical component are different, The entire platform is different as well and the only thing the two cars have in common is they are both 4 door sedans. In fact Tesla was aiming to make the S on the 3 design topology as it is far less costly to produce. These cars share nothing in common except a relatively similar software interface.

The 3 and the Y however are almost identical with some modifications in body and a few internal parts. The Y is a larger 3 with a hatchback.

Stop trolling, last warning.

 

[lorenfb]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans, and as I said, the M3 got some new tech. That's hardly a significant development/production effort
as would be needed for a SUV (MX) or a truck (CT). The M3 had very few development/production problems. Most

Wrong. The drives, the entire pack and every electronic and every other mechanical component are different, The entire platform is different as well and the only thing the two cars have in common is they are both 4 door sedans. In fact Tesla was aiming to make the S on the 3 design topology as it is far less costly to produce. These cars share nothing in common except a relatively similar software interface.

The 3 and the Y however are almost identical with some modifications in body and a few internal parts. The Y is a larger 3 with a hatchback.

Stop trolling, last warning.

Sorry, I fully apologize to the Tesla Forum and its members, aka MNL Forum.

 

[johnlocke]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans, and as I said, the M3 got some new tech. That's hardly a significant development/production effort
as would be needed for a SUV (MX) or a truck (CT). The M3 had very few development/production problems. Most

Wrong. The drives, the entire pack and every electronic and every other mechanical component are different, The entire platform is different as well and the only thing the two cars have in common is they are both 4 door sedans. In fact Tesla was aiming to make the S on the 3 design topology as it is far less costly to produce. These cars share nothing in common except a relatively similar software interface.

The 3 and the Y however are almost identical with some modifications in body and a few internal parts. The Y is a larger 3 with a hatchback.

Stop trolling, last warning.

Although the 3 and Y share a lot of parts, there are some significant differences. The body pan is made in a different fashion with a lot fewer parts (I think 3 versus 20) and the wiring harness is only about 150 meters of wire as opposed to about 1500 meters in the 3. Dual ring buses and a lot more things are controlled via the buses. The Y was designed around all the automation tricks Tesla learned from the 3. The Y does all the same things as a 3 but does them differently.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Really? Both are basic sedans, and as I said, the M3 got some new tech. That's hardly a significant development/production effort
as would be needed for a SUV (MX) or a truck (CT). The M3 had very few development/production problems. Most

Wrong. The drives, the entire pack and every electronic and every other mechanical component are different, The entire platform is different as well and the only thing the two cars have in common is they are both 4 door sedans. In fact Tesla was aiming to make the S on the 3 design topology as it is far less costly to produce. These cars share nothing in common except a relatively similar software interface.

The 3 and the Y however are almost identical with some modifications in body and a few internal parts. The Y is a larger 3 with a hatchback.

Stop trolling, last warning.

Although the 3 and Y share a lot of parts, there are some significant differences. The body pan is made in a different fashion with a lot fewer parts (I think 3 versus 20) and the wiring harness is only about 150 meters of wire as opposed to about 1500 meters in the 3. Dual ring buses and a lot more things are controlled via the buses. The Y was designed around all the automation tricks Tesla learned from the 3. The Y does all the same things as a 3 but does them differently.

Yes I was being conservative. The point is the S and the 3 are not similar at all except the new S versions are getting updated motors.

 

[jlv]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans

That's like saying the Civic is a scaled version of the Accord. You really make people doubt what you say by asserting such sillyness.

 

[lorenfb]

The M3 is NOT a scaled model S,

Really? Both are basic sedans

That's like saying the Civic is a scaled version of the Accord. You really make people doubt what you say by asserting such sillyness.

Really? The key point being made, which you & others have missed, is that developing a totally new vehicle type, i.e. a truck,
is a more complex development/production process than just producing another passenger vehicle, as wasn't the case with the
M3 given the years of production of the MS and its years in the field before the M3.

Have you read this?
https://www.wallawallavalleyhonda.com/whats-the-difference-between-the-honda-accord-and-civic-sedans/

To most they're basically similar for development/production.

When it comes to choosing which sedan would work best for you, the final decision mostly depends on your preferences. If an efficient, affordable sedan is what you’re after, explore the 2019 Honda Civic Sedan. If roomy cargo capacities and sporty performance appeal to you, consider the 2019 Honda Accord Sedan.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Really? Both are basic sedans

That's like saying the Civic is a scaled version of the Accord. You really make people doubt what you say by asserting such sillyness.

Really? The key point being made, which you & others have missed, is that developing a totally new vehicle type, i.e. a truck,
is a more complex development/production process than just producing another passenger vehicle, as wasn't the case with the
M3 given the years of production of the MS and its years in the field before the M3.

Have you read this?
https://www.wallawallavalleyhonda.com/whats-the-difference-between-the-honda-accord-and-civic-sedans/

To most they're basically similar for development/production.

When it comes to choosing which sedan would work best for you, the final decision mostly depends on your preferences. If an efficient, affordable sedan is what you’re after, explore the 2019 Honda Civic Sedan. If roomy cargo capacities and sporty performance appeal to you, consider the 2019 Honda Accord Sedan.

Duh no kidding. But it does not change your completely inaccurate statement as usual.

 

[Durandal]

Really? Both are basic sedans

That's like saying the Civic is a scaled version of the Accord. You really make people doubt what you say by asserting such sillyness.

Really? The key point being made, which you & others have missed, is that developing a totally new vehicle type, i.e. a truck,
is a more complex development/production process than just producing another passenger vehicle, as wasn't the case with the
M3 given the years of production of the MS and its years in the field before the M3.

Have you read this?
https://www.wallawallavalleyhonda.com/whats-the-difference-between-the-honda-accord-and-civic-sedans/

To most they're basically similar for development/production.

When it comes to choosing which sedan would work best for you, the final decision mostly depends on your preferences. If an efficient, affordable sedan is what you’re after, explore the 2019 Honda Civic Sedan. If roomy cargo capacities and sporty performance appeal to you, consider the 2019 Honda Accord Sedan.

You're quoting a DEALERSHIP website as a source? :lol: :lol:
Dealerships don't know what they're talking about half the time, the other half of the time they're lying.

The Civic and the Accord are different platforms. They're both sedans, but different platforms. The CRV used to be (and may still be fro all I know) based upon the Civic platform, just as the Acura RSX was based on the Civic platform while the TSX was based upon the Accord platform. Different size unibody, different size engines, often different transmissions and suspension as well.

In regards to the Model 3 vs the S, the Model 3 when developed had almost no common parts with the Model S, with exception to the MCU and AP computer and related parts.
It has a different body and body manufacturing process.
It has different battery cells and packs
It has different motors
It has different inverters
It has different doors.... trunk.... frunk... seats.. Roof Glass...
It has different suspension
It has different wiring


So, let's go back to your point about development of the Cybertruck vs the S, X, and Model 3. It is a radical departure from the other designs, primarily due to the way the body is designed. If it were a "regular" style truck, it would be a lot easier. Tesla has learned a lot from the mistakes of not figuring out the manufacturing process as part of the design process. However, this style of construction that they are employing isn't new. It's been used in the aeronautical industry for quite some time now, and SpaceX will be using it as part of the new rockets in development.

The funniest part of the Internet these days for me is people who think, that whatever it is they do on the daily in their day job along with whatever it is they do sitting behind their computer screen that...
Tesla, who can attract some very smart and talented engineers cannot hire a bunch of people with more knowledge, experience, and intelligence than some rando on the internet.

That isn't to say that those smart and talented engineers may not suffer from hubris from time to time. The Model X is a great example of where they didn't consider design all the way through the manufacturing phase. I'm pretty sure they have that worked out of their system by now.

 

[lorenfb]

In regards to the Model 3 vs the S, the Model 3 when developed had almost no common parts with the Model S, with exception to the MCU
and AP computer and related parts.

1. It has a different body - Yes, but is body manufacturing process really that different? Obviously new robots & robot programming changes
2. It has different battery cells and packs - mentioned that up-thread (2170 cells), minor effect on overall body integration
3. It has different motors - mentioned that up-thread (PM motor), similar to adding a turbo to an existing ICEV, minor
4. It has different inverters - obvious needed for the PM motor (requires motor phase angle drivers for the field winding), minor
5. It has different doors.... trunk.... frunk... seats.. Roof Glass... - obviously needed for diff body, MS had glass roof
6. It has different suspension - obvious per #1
7. It has different wiring - obviously needed for a different chassis & possibly a more complex CAN, e.g. more ECUs,
& likely a central gateway ECU too, not that complex

So, let's go back to your point about development of the Cybertruck vs the S, X, and Model 3. It is a radical departure from the other designs, primarily due to the way the body is designed. If it were a "regular" style truck, it would be a lot easier. Tesla has learned a lot from the mistakes of not figuring out the manufacturing process as part of the design process. However, this style of construction that they are employing isn't new. It's been used in the aeronautical industry for quite some time now, and SpaceX will be using it as part of the new rockets in development.

Time will tell.

The Model X is a great example of where they didn't consider design all the way through the manufacturing phase. I'm pretty sure they have that worked out of their system by now.

Many are supportive of that view.

 

[palmermd]

1. It has a different body - Yes, but is body manufacturing process really that different? Obviously new robots & robot programming changes
2. It has different battery cells and packs - mentioned that up-thread (2170 cells), minor effect on overall body integration
3. It has different motors - mentioned that up-thread (PM motor), similar to adding a turbo to an existing ICEV, minor
4. It has different inverters - obvious needed for the PM motor (requires motor phase angle drivers for the field winding), minor
5. It has different doors.... trunk.... frunk... seats.. Roof Glass... - obviously needed for diff body, MS had glass roof
6. It has different suspension - obvious per #1
7. It has different wiring - obviously needed for a different chassis & possibly a more complex CAN, e.g. more ECUs,
& likely a central gateway ECU too, not that complex

Clearly you have never manufactured anything. I work for an automotive manufacturing company and most of these changes are huge from an engineering and manufacturing perspective. if you think the Model 3 pack design and manufacturing is anything like the Model S pack design and manufacturing then you are clearly uninformed about what it takes to build these things. The rest of the list is the same. Huge differences in engineering and manufacturing processes between these two cars. Very little in common. Except that they are both 4 door sedan with a Tesla logo on the outside.

Cybertruck may have more in common with Model 3 than Model 3 has in common with Model S. But we won't know until they build them. With Tesla, I suspect that they will again take another leap in manufacturing and engineering for the truck which will again make it totally different. What Tesla will likely do, is update the Model S design to include many of the changes learned from Model 3 and incorporate them into the Model S engineering and manufacturing to bring it up to the same standard.