The 40KWH Battery Topic

[LeftieBiker]

On the one hand, that 3' run makes for a cheap, easy install. The already full 100A panel, though, complicates it. If you don't use more than 40-50A then a 40A circuit to use the Nissan EVSE on L-2 should be cheap and easy. If you have an electric water heater and dryer then a 30A circuit and lower power EVSE would be more appropriate.

 

[danrjones]

I have a gas drier / water heater and oven, and swamp coolers don't take more than about 1HP (700 watts) so I'm thinking I should be able to make space and add a breaker.

thanks!

 

[Kieran973]

If you're really pressed for space on your service panel, one option is the Clipper Creek LCS-15. It's only 12 amps, but 240 volts, so 2.88 kWh x .88 efficiency = 2.5 kWh per hour or about 10 miles of charge per hour assuming 4 miles/kWh. That's what I have. I live on the third floor of an apartment building, and the only real free space on the panel was a 15 amp outlet in a bedroom that we never use, so I had an electrician run more 15 amp line from this outlet through a pipe, down the outside of the building, and to the driveway. The LCS-15 is hardwired into the line, but they also make a plug-in option. Last night I set the charge timer for 12:10 AM - 3:10 AM and in those 3 hours the SOC went from 65% to 86%, so it gained 7% SOC or 2.8 kWh per hour of charging. Right now, the instrument cluster says I'm averaging 4.3 miles/kWh, so that's roughly 12 miles of charge per hour. It's certainly slow by L2 standards, but it works for my driving pattern and living situation, and the EVSE is only $379 and has a good reliability reputation.

https://store.clippercreek.com/lcs-15-12-amp-level-2-charging-station

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you're really pressed for space on your service panel, one option is the Clipper Creek LCS-15. It's only 12 amps, but 240 volts, so 2.88 kWh x .88 efficiency = 2.5 kWh per hour or about 10 miles of charge per hour assuming 4 miles/kWh. That's what I have. I live on the third floor of an apartment building, and the only real free space on the panel was a 15 amp outlet in a bedroom that we never use, so I had an electrician run more 15 amp line from this outlet through a pipe, down the outside of the building, and to the driveway. The LCS-15 is hardwired into the line, but they also make a plug-in option. Last night I set the charge timer for 12:10 AM - 3:10 AM and in those 3 hours the SOC went from 65% to 86%, so it gained 7% SOC or 2.8 kWh per hour of charging. Right now, the instrument cluster says I'm averaging 4.3 miles/kWh, so that's roughly 12 miles of charge per hour. It's certainly slow by L2 standards, but it works for my driving pattern and living situation, and the EVSE is only $379 and has a good reliability reputation.

https://store.clippercreek.com/lcs-15-12-amp-level-2-charging-station

I assume that you converted an existing 120 volt, 15 amp circuit to a 240 volt, 15 amp circuit?

 

[Kieran973]

Exactly. And I got some advice here on MNL when I was trying to figure out what charging set up would make sense, which led to that solution.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Exactly. And I got some advice here on MNL when I was trying to figure out what charging set up would make sense, which led to that solution.

Hey, that was me, I think! Although I was just passing on something I read here quite a few years ago. I'm at the point now where I walk around the house looking for something I'm holding.

 

[Kieran973]

Ha. Indeed, I think so. It's working well for me so far. It certainly wasn't cheap - $880 for the electrician - but that was mostly because I had to run 40ish feet of wire and piping out my apartment and down three stories to the driveway. If the EVSE had been closer to my service panel, I imagine the cost of the 120 to 240 volt conversion probably would have been a lot less. But my only other choices were 1.) keep driving an ICEV forever, 2.) rely on public chargers for 100% of my charging, or 3.) level 1 charge in a dangerously decrepit detached garage behind my apartment building with ungrounded electrical wiring that is routinely exposed to water every time it rains. So I'm happy with the choice I made. I only wish I had picked up my Leaf sooner. I almost bought a 2018 SV last fall for basically the same amount of money that I just paid for my 2019 SV, but the combination of some dealer shadiness at the time as well as waiting forever for the Leaf Plus to come out - it will be here tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow - only to realize that the msrp on the still-no-TMS-of-any-kind Plus models was not some sick, practical joke, cost me about six months. Oh well. I'm looking forward to testing the charging times of my 2019 SV on some short, 150-200 mile trips this summer.

 

[danrjones]

Did anyone have data collection tips? When to take measurements?

I tried uninstalling and then reinstalled leaf spy light and it's still all wonky. Mileage is wrong and its squashed . Data on the bottom is off the screen.

 

[retrodog]

Did anyone have data collection tips? When to take measurements?

I tried uninstalling and then reinstalled leaf spy light and it's still all wonky. Mileage is wrong and its squashed . Data on the bottom is off the screen.

Load the Pro version. And make sure it's the right one for your specific type of phone. Almost sounds like you're running a higher resolution version than your screen. Didn't know that was possible, but that's what it sounds like. Anyway, the Pro version might get rid of some of the ad crap and help. Just a suggestion. Good luck.

 

[danrjones]

Yeah I wasn't sure I wanted to spend money on the App, but I also wouldn't mind being able to turn off the reverse beeper.
As far as I can tell, there is only one android version in the play store for leaf spy light.

Does that void the warranty to turn of the reverse beeper? It just a setting...

 

[danrjones]

I figured it out, I had my font setting up high because I actually like to be able to read my app names.

But leaf spy only likes default font sizes.

So I can see all the stats now!

Nothing out of the ordinary though I noticed the SOC is about 4-5% higher than what my car says it is, like 59% versus 64% in leaf spy, but I think I saw that already noted on here.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Did anyone have data collection tips? When to take measurements?

I tried uninstalling and then reinstalled leaf spy light and it's still all wonky. Mileage is wrong and its squashed . Data on the bottom is off the screen.

LEAF Spy does not have dynamic screen capabilities. You will need to reduce all fonts and screens to "normal" (or whatever you have) which is reason why I use a separate phone for LEAF Spy (Have a few sitting in the drawer) as I can read nothing in "normal" mode...

 

[danrjones]

Did anyone have data collection tips? When to take measurements?

I tried uninstalling and then reinstalled leaf spy light and it's still all wonky. Mileage is wrong and its squashed . Data on the bottom is off the screen.

LEAF Spy does not have dynamic screen capabilities. You will need to reduce all fonts and screens to "normal" (or whatever you have) which is reason why I use a separate phone for LEAF Spy (Have a few sitting in the drawer) as I can read nothing in "normal" mode...

Exactly!

I've been looking through this thread at the examples of leafspy and people's comments - but is there a FAQ that's been developed for best charging practices? People have given me some great advice - don't let it sit there charging at full, if possible keep it between about 40-60%, charge when its cooler (at night here)

I charged it upto 65% +/- and two days of driving am at 55% so that pattern would easily work for me, I just charge every 4 nights or so.

But do I need to charge to 100% and drain down to 10% every now and then? Is there a memory effect if I always have it between 40-60%?



I'll be stuck using a Lvl 1 charger for awhile - I looked through my breaker panel and I suspect I need a full new panel to go any larger. I do have a double pole 30 amp breaker from my drier socket not being used, so I could un-wire that and put in a plug for Lvl 2 but then I would be limited to a 25 amp charger +/- . I don't think I could even plug in using the Nissan charger because my calculation tells me it would pull 28 amps (at 240 volts and 6600 watts) which is above the 80% sustained you should run on a circuit. I suppose I could oversize the wires, but I'd still be flirting with constant tripping the breaker.

Are any of the good Level 2 chargers downward adjustable in terms of amps?

 

[LeftieBiker]

There are several adjustable charging stations and cables, and Clipper Creek makes a 24A charging station for 30A circuits. They label by circuit rating, so look for an HCS-30 or LCS-30.

Charging to 100% SOC once in a while is a good idea for equalizing the cells, but we don't know for certain that it is vital. Keep the pack as cool as possible, especially while charging, and try to keep it between 30% and 60% or so SOC. That way you can plug it back in and charge to 100% if needed.

 

[goldbrick]

I bought an OpenEVSE kit for my L2 charger at home although I haven't installed it yet. It allows multiple current settings and has nice timers and available wifi support.

If it is easy to replace the wires for the 30A dryer circuit, I'd replace the wires and use a 50A circuit (6/2 NM-B cable and 50A breaker assuming everything is inside). Or just use an EVSE that can be run at 24A. You probably won't notice the difference in charging rates.

No memory effects on Li batteries. Many people recommend charging everyday to keep DoD down, so 30-40% SOC every day instead of 25-75% once a week, etc. For me, I just do what's convenient and end up charging about 3x a week. The battery management system will constantly balance the cells but to 'top balance' you need to run them all up to max voltage at 100% SOC. As Leftie said, it's hard to tell how much benefit that gives unless you absolutely need every last GID out of the battery.

 

[danrjones]

Thanks

I actually was planning to disconnect the old wires to the drier circuit and run new 6 gauge wiring (50+ amp) , so I was already thinking that, and then just leave the 30 amp breaker for now. At a minimum it wouldn't cause a safety issue, it could just trip the breaker. The problem is that my panel is probably technically overloaded so I'd like to not add anything larger. (I've never tripped the main breaker, and all my appliances are gas, so I'm actually probably no where near 100 amps)

I'll look that charger up. My install is actually going to be on the outside of my garage, about 2 feet from my main breaker panel, but that means it does have to be outdoor rated, and attached so someone can't easily walk away with it.

DoD?

I did notice a couple chargers for sale via costco, which I've found has a good return policy. But one used NEMA 14-50R and the other 6-50, and technically both are over a 30 amp breaker. 14-50R seems to be more common.

 

[danrjones]

I'm leaning toward the clipper creek for about $395, it goes upto 24A, is outdoor rated, won't pop my 30 amp breaker and I'll over size the wires for later, uses the 14-50R which seems pretty widespread Thanks!

That should give me 240x24= 5760 = 5.7 Kw which is pretty good and keeps me from violating any code since my breaker box stays the same.

 

[LeftieBiker]

DOD = Depth of Discharge.

The Clipper Creek charging stations use plastic housings that are outdoor rated. Just be careful of the little plastic mounting ears when installing, and maybe use brass or stainless steel washers over them for extra strength.

 

[goldbrick]

Have you considered hard-wiring the EVSE? You could run conduit from the box to the EVSE with an outdoor rated wire (THWN or equivalent) and then you don't have to worry about having an outdoor rated receptacle and theft seems less likely.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Have you considered hard-wiring the EVSE? You could run conduit from the box to the EVSE with an outdoor rated wire (THWN or equivalent) and then you don't have to worry about having an outdoor rated receptacle and theft seems less likely.

Yes, definitely.