The 40KWH Battery Topic

[Snakebitten]

Very well said. However 75 Farenheit (24 degree celcius) The 40 Kwh leafs aged 5 years generally all have SOH between 85 to 90 percent no matter how they have been used.

That's interesting and seems to apply to the low mileage 2018 (17,000) SL I recently grabbed.
Based on paint and interior, I have to assume it wasn't left in the brutal gulf coast sun. (It's absolutely pristine in/out except for the upper black trim piece at the top of each door/window)

Only 4 DCFC in those 5 years

It's SOH is 88.68 yesterday
Was 88.69 4 days/4 charges ago.

 

[aneesh84]

That's interesting and seems to apply to the low mileage 2018 (17,000) SL I recently grabbed.
Based on paint and interior, I have to assume it wasn't left in the brutal gulf coast sun. (It's absolutely pristine in/out except for the upper black trim piece at the top of each door/window)

Only 4 DCFC in those 5 years

It's SOH is 88.68 yesterday
Was 88.69 4 days/4 charges ago.

Thats about average I see for most 2018 SL. What hurts these low milage cars is being constantly kept on the charger at 100% for most of its life. I have seen this especially impact the Conductivity Hx. What is your Hx reading on leafspy?

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Except for the livery cars, nearly all of the 40 and 62 batteries are moving in sync.

It seems that those gen 2 Leafs which do some long distances at a stretch do a little better that those that do very little miles, but that is very anecdotal.

 

[Snakebitten]

That's interesting and seems to apply to the low mileage 2018 (17,000) SL I recently grabbed.
Based on paint and interior, I have to assume it wasn't left in the brutal gulf coast sun. (It's absolutely pristine in/out except for the upper black trim piece at the top of each door/window)

Only 4 DCFC in those 5 years

It's SOH is 88.68 yesterday
Was 88.69 4 days/4 charges ago.

Thats about average I see for most 2018 SL. What hurts these low milage cars is being constantly kept on the charger at 100% for most of its life. I have seen this especially impact the Conductivity Hx. What is your Hx reading on leafspy?

HX is abysmal, (see below) especially compared to all the rest of the stats on the car. So you are probably right about the 5 year low mileage history.

I really don't know how to "experience" or feeeeel the low HX, because I don't have anything to compare it to.

As for temps and the unsegmented temp meter on the dash, I think I successfully captured what temp pushes the meter just past the halfway mark. At 95F it's still dead center. At 97F it steps to the next segment. As hot as our ambients have been for the last few weeks, I still haven't seen the temp bar go beyond the one notch beyond halfway. Usually only on the way home during rush hour and being forced to up the pace. Especially from traffic stops, if you know what I mean.

Here's the reported HX when I trickle charged to 100% a few days ago

 

[Astral]

You will not see the temp go up significantly if you're driving it normally.

Temp can go up in two cases from my experience:
1. Driving fast on a motorway.
2. Fast charging.

The worst of course is when you combine those two together.

 

[Stanton]

You will not see the temp go up significantly if you're driving it normally.

Temp can go up in two cases from my experience:
1. Driving fast on a motorway.
2. Fast charging.

The worst of course is when you combine those two together.

I'll add one more to that:

1. Driving fast on a motorway.
2. Fast charging.
3. IN HIGH AMBIENT TEMPS

...and that's how I got my (first) warranty replacement pack (lost 4 TB within 5 years).

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

That's interesting and seems to apply to the low mileage 2018 (17,000) SL I recently grabbed.
Based on paint and interior, I have to assume it wasn't left in the brutal gulf coast sun. (It's absolutely pristine in/out except for the upper black trim piece at the top of each door/window)

Only 4 DCFC in those 5 years

It's SOH is 88.68 yesterday
Was 88.69 4 days/4 charges ago.

Thats about average I see for most 2018 SL. What hurts these low milage cars is being constantly kept on the charger at 100% for most of its life. I have seen this especially impact the Conductivity Hx. What is your Hx reading on leafspy?

HX is abysmal, (see below) especially compared to all the rest of the stats on the car. So you are probably right about the 5 year low mileage history.

I really don't know how to "experience" or feeeeel the low HX, because I don't have anything to compare it to.

As for temps and the unsegmented temp meter on the dash, I think I successfully captured what temp pushes the meter just past the halfway mark. At 95F it's still dead center. At 97F it steps to the next segment. As hot as our ambients have been for the last few weeks, I still haven't seen the temp bar go beyond the one notch beyond halfway. Usually only on the way home during rush hour and being forced to up the pace. Especially from traffic stops, if you know what I mean.

Here's the reported HX when I trickle charged to 100% a few days ago

Thank you for the screen capture. I have never seen tempsminverted on the thermometer. Mine always go low on top to high on the bottom read. That gives me.confidence that they 3 measures are in fixed places and not sorted in LS.

 

[aneesh84]

@snakebitten how much did you get this leaf for?

I am not aware if low Hx would have correlation to any noticible issues. Theoretically probably heating up a little but more during high currents.

 

[Snakebitten]

@snakebitten how much did you get this leaf for?

I am not aware if low Hx would have correlation to any noticible issues. Theoretically probably heating up a little but more during high currents.

$18k (+TTL)

I know that at certain times and with certain tax incentives that some folks have gotten extraordinary value equations on new Leafs.
But I missed out on those opportunities and I don't qualify for any tax incentives anyway. Other than Teslas, my region of the world isn't exactly an EV haven, although it's changing before my eyes.

I think I was also enamored with the fantastic Carfax with the entire history of the car documented at a local dealership. And of course the fully loaded car being visually pristine. (I also really like the White metallic paint)

 

[aneesh84]

@snakebitten how much did you get this leaf for?

I am not aware if low Hx would have correlation to any noticible issues. Theoretically probably heating up a little but more during high currents.

$18k (+TTL)

I know that at certain times and with certain tax incentives that some folks have gotten extraordinary value equations on new Leafs.
But I missed out on those opportunities and I don't qualify for any tax incentives anyway. Other than Teslas, my region of the world isn't exactly an EV haven, although it's changing before my eyes.

I think I was also enamored with the fantastic Carfax with the entire history of the car documented at a local dealership. And of course the fully loaded car being visually pristine. (I also really like the White metallic paint)

Yeah that seems about the same price it would be here in Portugal. I also got mine for almost the same value 3 months ago, a 2018 model. For the SOH you have, you should have many years of motoring left on it. We got the leaf as a second car around town. But since we got it we have rarely used the gas car, only for cross country holidaying.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yeah that seems about the same price it would be here in Portugal. I also got mine for almost the same value 3 months ago, a 2018 model. For the SOH you have, you should have many years of motoring left on it. We got the leaf as a second car around town. But since we got it we have rarely used the gas car, only for cross country holidaying.

I didn't know that I would have an EV to choose from daily. It truly was an impulse purchase. I have a couple of "toys" in the barn (ND Miata and 987 Porsche Boxster) and wasn't predicting a little electric to suddenly be my errand/commute choice.

Already the longest I ever remember not visiting a fuel station. Really enjoying it. I'm no Leafspy expert, but I figure it's a safe 100 mile or less horse.

 

[Astral]

I am aiming for a 580km trip soon and by planning my route on ABRP I have 3 options:
1. 3 charging stops but they require deep depletion of the battery and charging up to 90% each time
2. 4 charging stops in the normal 20-80% range
3. 5 charging stops in the 30-70% range

My plan is to drive no faster than 95km/h (motorway) not to put much stress on the battery so it remains cool.
Logic would dictate option 1 is the worst because after the first charging session the battery will already be quite hot.
Second option seems reasonable but it will probably still rapidgate after the second charge session.
I am intrigued by the 3rd option as by driving relatively slowly, not going too deep and not charging too intensive with basically the max speed in the 30-70 range, it might prove to be the best option when talking about stress on the battery.

Which one would you choose and why?

 

[Stanton]

You don't mention ambient temps, but in a Leaf? I would say none: rent an ICE.
Given uncertain charging infrastructure, I'm still not a fan of "road trips" in any EV; we use our ICE for anything over ~100 miles.

 

[Astral]

Ambient about 25c.

Well, I see your point and normally I would take an ICE car, I have one at my disposal, but I have time and taking a Leaf seems more fun It should also be quite a bit less expensive. According to ABRP it should only be 2h charging in total, but this will be affected by rapidgate when it starts, so I expect 3h max.

 

[Oostenrijker]

I am intrigued by the 3rd option as by driving relatively slowly, not going too deep and not charging too intensive with basically the max speed in the 30-70 range, it might prove to be the best option when talking about stress on the battery.

Which one would you choose and why?

That's what I do: and also trying to pick the shortest route possible. I haven't done more than 500km on a day, but I totally think it's doable.

Start with 100% SOC drive 200km's and charge up to 85% which gives about 150km. Basically you only need 3 fast charges. But its true, that charging only up up 65/70% is quicker.

Although I would just charge everytime to 85% or else you going have to do 4 fast charges for sure.

You don't mention ambient temps, but in a Leaf? I would say none: rent an ICE.
Given uncertain charging infrastructure, I'm still not a fan of "road trips" in any EV; we use our ICE for anything over ~100 miles.

Actually I think a roadtrip with an EV is more fun: because there is some challenges included. Going with an ICE is just fill up the tank and drive.

With an EV, you could give some thoughts about the charging stops: instead of going 3 fast charges. You could replace one of them, by a longer stop of a couple of hours. For example visiting a village, or going for lunch.

But you do need to find a 22kW charger, to receive 6kW charging speed from a public charger.

For example: last time I had to drive about 250km for going home, and I was charged only to 85% by the granny. So I drove like 150km, and then stopped at a 22kW charger from Aldi Süd. And had a lunch at an nice Italian restaurant.

After I got back, the SOC was 65% which was enough to drive the last 100km's.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

A Norway resident posted that Nissan isn't selling the Plus there anymore, only the smaller pack

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/15wd7qd/finally_test_drove_a_2023_leaf_even_though_it/jx3ov43?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2

 

[Oostenrijker]

Prices of the 39kWh have dropped significantly new: its still double the price, of what I paid for my used Tekna . But I saw a Tekna 2023 for € 36.000 and in the Netherlands you can get € 3000 subsidy.

But also the 59kWh has dropped a lot in price: basically what a 40kWh Tekna would have cost before, that's how much a 59kWh new cost now. I might consider turning my Nissan Leaf 40kWh in for a 59kWh in the future, but actually I'm satisfied with the 40kWh in terms of range.

Just on longer trips it sometimes a bit short in range: that's where the 59kWh would come in good use.

 

[aneesh84]

Prices of the 39kWh have dropped significantly new: its still double the price, of what I paid for my used Tekna . But I saw a Tekna 2023 for € 36.000 and in the Netherlands you can get € 3000 subsidy.

But also the 59kWh has dropped a lot in price: basically what a 40kWh Tekna would have cost before, that's how much a 59kWh new cost now. I might consider turning my Nissan Leaf 40kWh in for a 59kWh in the future, but actually I'm satisfied with the 40kWh in terms of range.

Just on longer trips it sometimes a bit short in range: that's where the 59kWh would come in good use.

The cost of converting a 40 to 59 would not be viable. I would suggest you can always trade it or sell it for something like a Kia e-Niro with 64 kwh usable (more like 70 kwh total to compare with leaf).

 

[Oostenrijker]

Prices of the 39kWh have dropped significantly new: its still double the price, of what I paid for my used Tekna . But I saw a Tekna 2023 for € 36.000 and in the Netherlands you can get € 3000 subsidy.

But also the 59kWh has dropped a lot in price: basically what a 40kWh Tekna would have cost before, that's how much a 59kWh new cost now. I might consider turning my Nissan Leaf 40kWh in for a 59kWh in the future, but actually I'm satisfied with the 40kWh in terms of range.

Just on longer trips it sometimes a bit short in range: that's where the 59kWh would come in good use.

The cost of converting a 40 to 59 would not be viable. I would suggest you can always trade it or sell it for something like a Kia e-Niro with 64 kwh usable (more like 70 kwh total to compare with leaf).

I did not mean converting a 40kWh to 59kWh, but trading it in for a 59kWh ones they hit the second hand market. The 59kWh was released later, so they haven't hit the second hand market yet. But I would lose to much, if I would trade my car in now. So I rather do it in a few years, and I really like the Nissan Leaf. Just sometimes I'm short about 50km and it charges quite slow with AC. But on the moment I have some issues with the Nissan dealer, they messed up the windshield replacement and slighty damaged the roof textile as well in the progress.

These kind of things always make me temporarily unhappy about a car: it makes me overthink things as well.

 

[aneesh84]

[/quote]
I did not mean converting a 40kWh to 59kWh, but trading it in for a 59kWh ones they hit the second hand market. The 59kWh was released later, so they haven't hit the second hand market yet. But I would lose to much, if I would trade my car in now. So I rather do it in a few years, and I really like the Nissan Leaf. Just sometimes I'm short about 50km and it charges quite slow with AC. But on the moment I have some issues with the Nissan dealer, they messed up the windshield replacement and slighty damaged the roof textile as well in the progress.

These kind of things always make me temporarily unhappy about a car: it makes me overthink things as well.
[/quote]

i got it. Well in 1-2 years a lot of nice EVs will hit the second hand market so you will have lots of options to choose from with CCS/Battery cooling technology and probably not much more than a leaf 64. The Leaf is certainly a comfortable car but I really like the Niro too with the 64 Kwh Battery. And in terms of comfort nothing beats the Citroen e-C4 / eC4-X with the hydraulic dampers, soft floaty ride, and cushiony memory foam seats with a massager. I am eyeing all the cars in the market to get them cheap second hand in 2-3 years.

BTW yesterday I test drove the Tesla model 3 and i just cant have that. Hard ride, feel every bump on the road and hard seats that press your bum and back. Sitting in it for more than a few minutes was torture.