The Battery Replacement Thread

[eHelmholtz]

You may well be right, although I was hoping for better from Nissan. Silly me. Oh well, I have enjoyed driving my LEAF over the last couple of years, even if it has been a very expensive ride compared to just driving the ICE car.

I'm with Dave on this one. Many of us had faith in Mark Perry's (Nissan's) claims about the minimal degradation of the battery without TMS, thinking Nissan had found a magical battery chemistry. We have been disappointed by the real world degradation and Nissan's response to it. Still, driving LEAF/EV is fun!

 

[mkjayakumar]

My Autonation dealer salesman mentioned about it, although he might have got the rumor from this forum..

 

[dhanson865]

Easy - the "hot pack" is really a figment of our imaginations and our desperate attempt to justify our purchase of a Nissan LEAF. In other words, we are all going insane talking about the same thing day in / day out expecting Nissan to do something different! The sane ones have sold their LEAF for another plug-in, or simply accepted that Nissan will never do anything for original owners who have lost more capacity than expected.

Feeling a bit cynical today drees? You may well be right, although I was hoping for better from Nissan. Silly me. Oh well, I have enjoyed driving my LEAF over the last couple of years, even if it has been a very expensive ride compared to just driving the ICE car.

So after reading that post, I did another search for used Leafs on autotrader (I've been wanting to buy a used leaf for years, just waiting for a cheap enough price to come along).

Ironically the best looking leaf in my search results appears to be DaveinOlyWA's old Leaf #258 with 44,598 miles currently for sale in the Pacific NW for $13,777. The Pic on autotrader still shows it having 12 bars.

I wonder if someone reset the BMS to show 12 bars or if he was just on the edge of losing the first bar when he traded it in?

I also wonder if I'm better off just spending the equivalent purchase price on a used Prius instead?

Was it just the initial purchase price that made you consider your leaf "very expensive" or if it's been other components of the TCO calculation that surprised you?

 

[DaveEV]

Feeling a bit cynical today drees?

LOL, just a bit. Mainly just venting after we've all been led to believe many different things about the battery by multiple upper level Nissan execs and absolutely none of those things have come to fruition.

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

 

[gmikol]

So after reading that post, I did another search for used Leafs on autotrader (I've been wanting to buy a used leaf for years, just waiting for a cheap enough price to come along).

Ironically the best looking leaf in my search results appears to be DaveinOlyWA's old Leaf #258 with 44,598 miles currently for sale in the Pacific NW for $13,777. The Pic on autotrader still shows it having 12 bars.

I wonder if someone reset the BMS to show 12 bars or if he was just on the edge of losing the first bar when he traded it in?

From DaveinOlyWA's blog:

average ending GID count 236
ahr 57.10 Hx 57.16 SOH 87%

So it looks like he was just on the edge of losing that first bar.

--G

 

[derkraut]

Feeling a bit cynical today drees?

LOL, just a bit. Mainly just venting after we've all been led to believe many different things about the battery by multiple upper level Nissan execs and absolutely none of those things have come to fruition.

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

I'm thinking.....I'm thin :roll: king.

 

[danmeljeff]

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

While I'm sure there are plenty of reasons behind why Nissan is following through with battery replacements, but for whatever reason, I'm quite pleased that they are. I'm not trying to sound smug or neener-neener-neener as I know some LEAFers won't qualify for replacement under the warranty, but having had the LEAF for nearly 3 years, then to hear of the battery capacity warranty coverage of new LEAFs being extended to my model year LEAF...I was very impressed.

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun here, since my battery hasn't officially been replaced yet...hope I'm not jinxing it

 

[KJD]

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

Nissan will announce additional details of the battery replacement program later this year, including other global markets.

Still waiting.............

 

[TomT]

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

Umm... Hmm... Still thinking... The 5/60 capacity "warranty" is about all that comes to mind... And the lawsuit forced them in to that one so it probably shouldn't count!

 

[mksE55]

Just hit the 4 bar looser list, I am going to the dealership this week. I will post info on how it went , and battery number if anyone wants to know. the Leaf apps states its currently at 43.05 AHr.

oopss 32,327 miles , not many if you ask me.

 

[KJD]

Just hit the 4 bar looser list, I am going to the dealership this week. I will post info on how it went , and battery number if anyone wants to know. the Leaf apps states its currently at 43.05 AHr.

How many miles on your car ?

 

[danmeljeff]

A bit of an update here. I received a call from my Nissan service center at around 3p today, informing me that they were able to provide Tech Line with all the information needed to start the warranty review process (he was mainly talking about the battery diagnostics that were run). So, my Wednesday appointment is now canceled, as it's unnecessary.

I then received a call from my NoGasEV 'case worker' at about 3:30p today, and he too informed me of the info that my Nissan service center provided. The info has been logged to my case, and is being passed along to the tech department for analysis and review. If they clear it (not exactly sure all the criteria), then a new battery will be sent out...likely next week. My 'case worker' said I am a confirmed 4CB loser per the battery test results, and everything is looking on track for a replacement. He said he'll followup with me tomorrow.

Sorry, nothing very exciting this time, but figured I'd share my experience with y'all.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

Umm... Hmm... Still thinking... The 5/60 capacity "warranty" is about all that comes to mind... And the lawsuit forced them in to that one so it probably shouldn't count!

Yes, that's the only one that comes to mind for me as well. On the plus side for Nissan, they did make some early-adopter-suggested improvements in the later models, such as the heat pump, heater-off button, faster OB charger, % SOC gauge, "B mode" for increased regen, and the like.

But when it comes to the battery issues they have treated us like mushrooms...

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Was it just the initial purchase price that made you consider your leaf "very expensive" or if it's been other components of the TCO calculation that surprised you?

I wasn't the least bit surprised at how expensive the LEAF was. It is almost always cheaper to buy/keep a used car and drive it to death than to buy a new car. Even the tax credits don't change that much, except for very high mileage drivers.

A couple of years ago there were no used LEAFs. Now that is changing in a big way as more come off lease in the next few years. Assuming that the limited and declining range isn't an issue, a used LEAF can be a decent deal.

Like some others here, I bought a LEAF because I've wanted to drive electric — on sunpower! — and kick the oil habit for years. And I was willing to be an early adopter to show support for the first mass market EV in the hope that electric cars eventually catch on. But I knew that I would be paying dearly for the privilege!

Now that the first ever Level 2 public charge station is going in at my destination city, even the declining range, especially in winter, is no longer going to be an issue. Assuming that the one charge station parking space doesn't get ICEd... So things are looking up for my continued LEAF usage out here in the boondocks.

But, having seen the map of the Tesla supercharger network I now have a serious case of "Tesla envy". And the money I have spent on the LEAF will make it that much harder to ever afford a Tesla. Qué será, será.

 

[Stoaty]

My 'case worker' said I am a confirmed 4CB loser per the battery test results, and everything is looking on track for a replacement. He said he'll followup with me tomorrow.

But if you read in a related thread, Ed will tell you that you really haven't lost that much:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=6773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess Nissan is replacing batteries as a community service to make people feel better, although there is nothing wrong with their batteries.

 

[DaveEV]

Can anyone name a single thing that Nissan has followed through on?

While I'm sure there are plenty of reasons behind why Nissan is following through with battery replacements, but for whatever reason, I'm quite pleased that they are.

Oh I think everyone is happy that they finally admitted some sort of issue and are helping customers who were are affected the most, but I don't think anyone is happy that it took a lawsuit for them to come around on the issue while they made it initially appear like they were doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

An actual capacity warranty would do one of the following:

* Cover against capacity loss out to 8 years / 100k miles (like the BMW i3).
or
* Pro-rate the warranty out past 5 years 60 k miles (simply sliding scale out to 8 years / 100k miles).

Obviously the former is a better capacity warranty, but even the latter would leave people screwed if they miss the warranty period by a few months or thousand miles.

 

[TomT]

It's 10 and 150 in California!

* Cover against capacity loss out to 8 years / 100k miles (like the BMW i3).

 

[walterbays]

An actual capacity warranty would do one of the following:

* Cover against capacity loss out to 8 years / 100k miles (like the BMW i3).
or
* Pro-rate the warranty out past 5 years 60 k miles (simply sliding scale out to 8 years / 100k miles).

Also they could have made the warranty terms match the marketing message of 20% degradation in 5 years. And they could have specified an objective measure accessible to all like Amp-hr instead of a subjective measure, non-linear, subject to the whims of the latest BMS firmware version like capacity bars.

<edit> I don't necessarily think that Nissan is deliberately changing the software to ensure that few drivers are eligible for battery replacement regardless of degree of capacity loss. But people will always suspect them of it, and there's no way for drivers or Nissan to conclusively prove in court that the software was or wasn't fudged.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Easy - the "hot pack" is really a figment of our imaginations and our desperate attempt to justify our purchase of a Nissan LEAF. In other words, we are all going insane talking about the same thing day in / day out expecting Nissan to do something different! The sane ones have sold their LEAF for another plug-in, or simply accepted that Nissan will never do anything for original owners who have lost more capacity than expected.

Feeling a bit cynical today drees? You may well be right, although I was hoping for better from Nissan. Silly me. Oh well, I have enjoyed driving my LEAF over the last couple of years, even if it has been a very expensive ride compared to just driving the ICE car.

So after reading that post, I did another search for used Leafs on autotrader (I've been wanting to buy a used leaf for years, just waiting for a cheap enough price to come along).

Ironically the best looking leaf in my search results appears to be DaveinOlyWA's old Leaf #258 with 44,598 miles currently for sale in the Pacific NW for $13,777. The Pic on autotrader still shows it having 12 bars.

I wonder if someone reset the BMS to show 12 bars or if he was just on the edge of losing the first bar when he traded it in?

I also wonder if I'm better off just spending the equivalent purchase price on a used Prius instead?

Was it just the initial purchase price that made you consider your leaf "very expensive" or if it's been other components of the TCO calculation that surprised you?

Ahr was just over 58 I think I remember. My estimate was losing the first bar around 54 to 58k or in that neighborhood

 

[DaveInAvl]

I don't necessarily think that Nissan is deliberately changing the software to ensure that few drivers are eligible for battery replacement regardless of degree of capacity loss. But people will always suspect them of it, and there's no way for drivers or Nissan to conclusively prove in court that the software was or wasn't fudged.

I dunno... to me that seems like the kind of thing that would come out in pre-trial discovery. Even if the source code itself was considered a trade secret, the behavior of the instrumentation vs. the state of the battery could be compared between the two versions, no?