Wanting input before purchase

[KennyLewis]

I thought I saw on this site that charging at 110v returns about 5 miles per hour. 9.5 hours at 5 miles per hour would recover the 45 miles used on the trip to school. If you were charged to 100% at the start of the day you would have a full charge for the trip home. In moderate climates without much heater useage you should be able to go about 75 miles providing you can keep your speed down. By the way my Camry Hybrid gets great mileage in Foley Alabama due to the terrain. Your amount of miles recovered during the charging time does depend on your miles per kilowatt attained.

 

[mwalsh]

I thought I saw on this site that charging at 110v returns about 5 miles per hour.

Closer to 4 miles per hour charged.

 

[WetEV]

Making a field mandatory isn't useful - unless you can also check the value input is valid.

I was forced to reveal my secret location.. One thing that works well is to assume the worst locations, such as a summer in Phoenix and winter in Alaska when people ask if the Leaf is a good choice for them... they quickly get the hint in a gentle manner.

Perhaps there should be an option to refuse location. Displays as "Hiding under a Bridge". :lol:

 

[jasavak]

Not sure how I feel about the volt. It's such small mileage with an inefficient ice. Thougt of a plug in prius but its even smaller EV. Guess ill have to do some calculations

I have a Volt and doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient . You get good results because your battery pack improves your economy by using the stored energy created from regeneration .

The last two days I drove almost 150 miles . Today I drove 61.6 miles . 8.6 miles on the ICE used 0.2 gallons (43 MPG) and 53 miles on electric . Yesterday I drove 87.8 miles . I used 0.62 gallons on 28.6 miles on the ICE (46.1 MPG) and drove the other 59.2 miles on electricity . This calculates to about 182 miles per gallon of fuel used . Of course it did cost me about another $1.40 in electricity . I usually use about 8 gallons of fuel every 6-8 weeks which calculates to around 220 miles per gallon plus $20 per month in electricity @ .082 per kWh taxes included .

The 1.4 engine is capable of high speed travel limited to 101 mph . The torque in EV mode is a premium experience and it is as quiet as a church mouse .

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure how I feel about the volt. It's such small mileage with an inefficient ice. Thougt of a plug in prius but its even smaller EV. Guess ill have to do some calculations

I have a Volt and doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient .

That's where you're wrong.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32655&id=33324&id=33335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has the EPA FE figures for the Volt (in charge sustain mode), regular Prius and PiP (in HV mode).

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/december/letters/overview/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Volt's figures in CS mode in CR's testing (described at last page of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false were 32 mpg overall, 23 city/41 highway. Prius' figures from http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/02/the-most-fuel-efficient-cars/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are 44 mpg overall, 32 city/55 highway. (The Volt's figures there are a "composite of electricity & gas").

 

[jasavak]

Not sure how I feel about the volt. It's such small mileage with an inefficient ice. Thougt of a plug in prius but its even smaller EV. Guess ill have to do some calculations

I have a Volt and doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient .

That's where you're wrong.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32655&id=33324&id=33335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has the EPA FE figures for the Volt (in charge sustain mode), regular Prius and PiP (in HV mode).

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/december/letters/overview/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Volt's figures in CS mode in CR's testing (described at last page of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false were 32 mpg overall, 23 city/41 highway. Prius' figures from http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/02/the-most-fuel-efficient-cars/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are 44 mpg overall, 32 city/55 highway. (The Volt's figures there are a "composite of electricity & gas").

I see how you got confused when they mix both electricity and gasoline . We are comparing fuel economy aren’t we ? The confusion comes from the way hybrids consistently burn gas and store energy and the Volt runs on electric motors and converts gasoline into electricity only when the battery is depleted .

Here is my current situation related to the 100 mile ratings : My Volt consistently used about 1.35 gallons of gas and 10kWh of electricity this week (about 12kwh wall to wheel) per 100 miles .

The cost (economy) : 1.35 gallons @ $4.00 = $5.40
Electricty cost : 12Kwh@ 0.082 = 0.98
Fuel economy = $6.38 per 100 miles .

Standard Prius uses 2.0 gallons @ 50MPG
Total Fuel economy = $8.00 per 100 miles

Plugin Prius uses 3.0kWh (3.6 wall to wheel) for 12.5 miles using 4.2 miles per Kwh and later 49 mpg which uses 1.79 gallons of gasoline or $7.14 @ $4.00.
and 3.6Kwh @ 0.082 = .30

Total Fuel economy = $7.44 per 100 miles

Also , I misread "small mileage " as small engine , and thought you were concerned about performance . That is why I mentioned the 101 mph top speed. However , it is a fact the Volt is much quicker and does have better handling .

If we use 50 mile trips , the numbers get much better for the Volt . I usually average 220 MPG .

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure how I feel about the volt. It's such small mileage with an inefficient ice. Thougt of a plug in prius but its even smaller EV. Guess ill have to do some calculations

I have a Volt and doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient .

That's where you're wrong.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32655&id=33324&id=33335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has the EPA FE figures for the Volt (in charge sustain mode), regular Prius and PiP (in HV mode).

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/december/letters/overview/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Volt's figures in CS mode in CR's testing (described at last page of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false were 32 mpg overall, 23 city/41 highway. Prius' figures from http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/02/the-most-fuel-efficient-cars/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are 44 mpg overall, 32 city/55 highway. (The Volt's figures there are a "composite of electricity & gas").

I see how you got confused when they mix both electricity and gasoline . We are comparing fuel economy aren’t we ?

I don't know what you're talking about. frayz was talking about the inefficient ICE of the Volt. You also claimed "doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient". Well, the tests I spelled it out already, the Volt when using the ICE IS more inefficient. I'm sure I can find more, if needed.

You're mixing other unrelated stuff into it besides the Priuses not requiring premium unleaded, unlike the Volt.

BTW, 8.2 cents per kwh are also Fantasyland electricity rates in my area. Try putting in 95136 zip code into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and select gas and no for CARE. The lowest tier is at 13 cents/kwh and that doesn't include taxes and crap that PG&E adds on. Try putting in your monthly electricity usage there and compare your bill to the calculator there.

 

[jasavak]

Not sure how I feel about the volt. It's such small mileage with an inefficient ice. Thougt of a plug in prius but its even smaller EV. Guess ill have to do some calculations

I have a Volt and doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient .

That's where you're wrong.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32655&id=33324&id=33335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has the EPA FE figures for the Volt (in charge sustain mode), regular Prius and PiP (in HV mode).

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/december/letters/overview/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Volt's figures in CS mode in CR's testing (described at last page of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false were 32 mpg overall, 23 city/41 highway. Prius' figures from http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/02/the-most-fuel-efficient-cars/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are 44 mpg overall, 32 city/55 highway. (The Volt's figures there are a "composite of electricity & gas").

I see how you got confused when they mix both electricity and gasoline . We are comparing fuel economy aren’t we ?

I don't know what you're talking about. frayz was talking about the inefficient ICE of the Volt. You also claimed "doubt if the Prius ICE is more efficient". Well, the tests I spelled it out already, the Volt when using the ICE IS more inefficient. I'm sure I can find more, if needed.

You're mixing other unrelated stuff into it besides the Priuses not requiring premium unleaded, unlike the Volt.

BTW, 8.2 cents per kwh are also Fantasyland electricity rates in my area. Try putting in 95136 zip code into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and select gas and no for CARE. The lowest tier is at 13 cents/kwh and that doesn't include taxes and crap that PG&E adds on. Try putting in your monthly electricity usage there and compare your bill to the calculator there.

I never use premium because I refuel every 2 months . Premium is suggested for those who keep fuel for more than 6 months . I understand things are different in California , I lived there for 38 years .

However , I explained my results , not yours . BTW , .08 is not special . Rates as low as 4.5 cents are available in my area and other states . However , Gasoline prices also vary .

Imagine for a minute removing the battery packs from both the Prius and the Volt and you will begin to understand what I am talking about . Both engines are very efficient by themselves but achieve better results from their perspective battery packs .

We know the energy from the battery on the Prius is captured from regeneration and supplements the gasoline fuel economy .

The Volt instead converts this same regeneration into electricity and adds this energy as additional electric range .

For example , if I were to drive 40 miles on pure electric and reach a road with a slight downward slope for the next 20 miles , I could travel about 70 miles without one drop of gasoline .

If we were to drive these same 70 miles with a Prius we would first use 0.8 gallons for the first 40 miles @ 50 mpg , and let's say we averaged 65 MPG for the last 30 miles because part of it was slightly downhill . (76MPG on the 20 and 50mpg on the last 10)

The Prius did great and only used 1.26 gallons on a 70 mile drive . The Volt used no gasoline . Instead it used its original charge of 10Kwh and around 3-4Kwh it captured on the highway .

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
The '13 Chevy Volt manual at http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k13volt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says only to use 91 octane or higher.

Use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. If the octane is less than 91, you could damage the engine. If heavy knocking is heard when using gasoline rated at 91 octane or higher, the engine needs service.

You bringing in electricity is irrelevant to ICE efficiency. And again, your 8.5 cents/kwh rate is an anomaly vs. most of the rest of the US. See http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[jasavak]

^^^
The '13 Chevy Volt manual at http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k13volt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says only to use 91 octane or higher.

Use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. If the octane is less than 91, you could damage the engine. If heavy knocking is heard when using gasoline rated at 91 octane or higher, the engine needs service.

You bringing in electricity is irrelevant to ICE efficiency. And again, your 8.5 cents/kwh rate is an anomaly vs. most of the rest of the US. See http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I’m not disputing you have higher rates; I lived in California for 38 years.

For those shopping for vehicles that mostly or exclusively use electricity such as the Leaf, FFE , Tesla , Fisker , Volt or Miev , the minor differences in efficiencies of the ICE’s are irrelevant .
Special programs are available in California for charging electric vehicles. Using super off peak for night charging with dedicated meter can be a benefit.
4.5 cents is available in our area, but we are stuck with the higher rate of 8 cents in our co-op.
https://secure.streamenergy.net/tx_rates.asp?CO_LA=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texas is considered to have about average rates because we use nearly 50% natural gas and produce more wind energy than any other state. Coal, nuclear and hydro provide cheaper energy.

My fuel usage per monthly 1000 miles using 87 octane on Volt:

= 4.55 gallons + 225 kWh electricity


Prius = 20 gallons


If you want the overall costs, plug in your own prices of gasoline and electricity for your area.

Keep your focus (no pun intended) on electricity . Unless one almost never runs the vehicle on electricity, focusing on the small differences of ICE efficiency is like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

 

[frayz]

Well if you are looking at my commute and the entry level premium for the Volt it doesn't add up to a cost savings IMO.

 

[jasavak]

Well if you are looking at my commute and the entry level premium for the Volt it doesn't add up to a cost savings IMO.

" 45 miles to work (could charge there from 8am-5:30pm usually dont leave for lunch and probably only on 110v) "

You would use little or no fuel commuting to work and should get a 95% charge while there for another 35 or so miles .


" 69-71 miles - work to university. university home. "

70 miles - 35 = 35 on gas. Your total for the 115 miles would be about 1 gallon a day.

How far is the leg from work to university ? How far from the house ?

You may still be able to use a leaf if it's in range and they have charging stations there .

Two hours of 6.6kw charging should yield 12Kwh or 35-50 miles of range .

My son goes to University of North Texas and they have 8 chargers on campus .

We were talking about the same thing . Oddly , he wanted a Volt and I was trying to convince him on the Leaf . I leased my Volt for $330 per month with zero down , but it seems you probably put too many miles for a lease .