Why Did You Choose the Nissan Leaf over the Chevy Volt?

[TRONZ]

Very true. Level-3 eliminates Volts once and for all.

 

[Stanton]

What is funny is all the cars need to be plugged in, the two electric cars for obvious reasons but I have a little battery minder for the 12V battery in the Prius because the car hardly gets driven at all.
arnold

Isn't it cool that the Leaf "tops off" the 12V battery for you (if left unplugged for >5 days--like at an airport)? Nissan got so many things RIGHT when they designed this car!

 

[Levenkay]

Back to the thread title's question:

A combination of price and the mistaken impression that the Volt would have to be significantly heavier than the LEAF in order to lug around a combustion engine capable of highway-speed propulsion.

 

[Randy3]

IMHO -

I've never understood the LEAF versus Volt question. They are not in the same category, unless your daily needs are within the Volt's 35-45 mile EV range. Once you consider the Volt's ICE ability, the comparison becomes Volt versus traditional hybrids. To me, the Volt makes sense only if we were a one car family or if every driver in our family had to drive over 70 miles per day regularly.

It's like buying a computer. When someone asks me what computer to buy, I always ask what they plan to use it for. Email and internet? Buy a low end one. Latest gaming and video? Spend more money. The same concept occurred to me when the LEAF and Volt were coming to market. In the five years before buying the LEAF, we never once had the need to use two cars at the same time for trips where both of them needed to go over 70 miles. Evaluate the needs, then purchase accordingly.

In early 2010, when the LEAF was just coming out and the initial deposit date was coming up, I was considering my future. I was preparing the retire, so my driving needs would become even less. I felt that gas prices would continue to rise (why can't Americans just look at the past prices and realize this will continue?). I had installed a PV solar system on our home to protect our finances from future PG&E electric rate increases. The LEAF just seemed to meet our needs.

Finally, one other thing about LEAF vs. Volt. I've owned one other Nissan (a 1980 Datsun/Nissan 210) and one other Chevy (a 199? Lumina). I beat the Nissan up pretty bad. Lots of miles driven, some of them in very bad conditions (like the sands of the Eel River). The Nissan took everything I threw at it. One the other hand, the Chevy started nickle-and-diming me right after the warranty expired. It became too expensive to maintain. I trust Nissan's more simple electric LEAF drive train over Chevy's Frankenstein merging of two technologies. My LEAF may lose some battery capacity, but I suspect it's total cost of ownership with beat the Volt by a lot over the long run.

 

[Roadburner440]

Scott; how long does the Volt have to run in maintenance mode?

The Volt runs for 10 minutes in maintenance mode, and burns about 0.25 gallons in the process every 6 weeks. Not sure if the question was directed at me, but that is your answer. It comes up with a screen asking if I wish to run it (you can only delay it for 24 hours). Unfortunately on base at 25mph it makes my mpg numbers horrible. So I wait till I get on I-64 @ 55mph before hitting ok. I also try to wait till I am coming home from work cause obviously when I leave the battery is at 100%. Otherwise it is just spinning the motor with little to no load.

Center stack message giving me the option to run/not run.

Main drive screen. You can see the battery in the top left with 33 miles greyed out, with the fuel gauge being active directly to the left of the screen. When Maint. Mode stops the battery & fuel gauges swap places and EV mode comes back.

EDIT: I just noticed that was only a month ago at 3200 miles.. Hard to believe we have almost 2000 on the car since then. Man the Leaf cannot come soon enough to help balance it out. :lol:

 

[SanDust]

IMO, a BEV or a PHEV, designed for highway use, that has to park for hours in order to recharge, has a critical design flaw.

If we're being theoretical then it would be accurate to say that any EV that can't go 300 miles without charging and which can't recharge in less than half an hour has a fatal design flaw.

IOW I wouldn't think of trying to go to Phoenix in the Leaf but if I had a Volt it wouldn't be a problem. So which one of these cars would 99% of people think has a "design flaw"? The Leaf is commuter car. Period. Accept it for what it is. Trying to make it into a car that you can "take anywhere" is like trying to make a screwdriver into a hammer.

Very true. Level-3 eliminates Volts once and for all.

By the time these mythological beasts known as DC chargers actually exist Volts will probably be able to use them. Actually my guess is that getting rid of FREE Public Charging will eliminate 100% of Volts and 99% of Leafs.

 

[SanDust]

EDIT: I just noticed that was only a month ago at 3200 miles.. Hard to believe we have almost 2000 on the car since then. Man the Leaf cannot come soon enough to help balance it out. :lol:

If you're leasing (a good idea), adding extra miles to the 12K base for the Leaf is pretty cheap. You might want to check that out.

 

[Roadburner440]

If you're leasing (a good idea), adding extra miles to the 12K base for the Leaf is pretty cheap. You might want to check that out.

Well with the Volt we do not drive our Prius. In fact my father in law gave me a Shell gift card for my birthday that I put in our Prius today. For $25 it got me just under 7 gallons. Even more reasons it is going to be replaced with the Leaf. The Volt will only needed to be gassed once a year, or if we go on trips. The Leaf will bear the brunt of my wifes duties. Right now whoever travels the least mileage is the one who takes the Prius if we must go somewhere on the same day. Other than that we combine trips. It is hard to think that on that same $25 in my Volt (or our coming Leaf) I would go 833 miles instead of 350ish miles. I may go with the 15k lease on the Leaf. Still undecided. Like I said I am leaning toward keeping the Leaf & giving back the Volt. Really depends on where the tech is in a few years.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Scott; how long does the Volt have to run in maintenance mode?

So I wait till I get on I-64 @ 55mph before hitting ok. I also try to wait till I am coming home from work cause obviously when I leave the battery is at 100%. Otherwise it is just spinning the motor with little to no load.

ummm, hmmm... cant you turn off the EV mode whenever you want to even if its full? i would just as habit run for 15 minutes in gas only mode once a month on the freeway (worst case for EV operation...save the battery for in town stuff?)

 

[edatoakrun]

"SanDust"...By the time these mythological beasts known as DC chargers actually exist Volts will probably be able to use them...

No. You'll never be able to use DC with current Volts.

The Volt would seem to be yet another example of planned obsolescence, a concept GM has had an extensive history, of promoting.

It is true, that on a long trip you can burn gas in a Volt, and get almost the same MPG as you could get in A Cruze, at about half the Volt's list price, if that is your objective.

As to DC chargers being "mythological", there are now well over 1,000 worldwide, virtually all CHAdeMO, AFAIK.

http://www.chademo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are even dozens of CHAdeMO stations now operational, and hundreds (?) in various stages of installation, In the USA, despite the obstructionist efforts, by the manufactures of lesser vehicles.

I think the inherent superiority of fast-charging BEVs, to ICEVs (PHEV and conventional) will likely become increasingly obvious, as both DC chargers and BEVs capable of using them, proliferate.

 

[planet4ever]

I've never understood the LEAF versus Volt question. They are not in the same category, unless your daily needs are within the Volt's 35-45 mile EV range. Once you consider the Volt's ICE ability, the comparison becomes Volt versus traditional hybrids. To me, the Volt makes sense only if we were a one car family or if every driver in our family had to drive over 70 miles per day regularly.

Originally Carlos Ghosn wanted to sell the car but lease the battery. Back at the beginning of 2010 I tried to graph driving costs of the LEAF, Prius (not PIP), and Volt under various daily mileage scenarios, and using the leased battery assumption. One thing I concluded (perhaps incorrectly) was that the cost of maintaining an ICE just for trips the LEAF couldn't make would be higher for us than renting a car when needed. But the big surprise was that my graphs showed for distances up to 80 miles the Volt would be the cheapest car to drive and the LEAF the most expensive. Beyond 80 miles the Prius was the cheapest, and the LEAF still the most expensive. In mid 2010 I updated my graphs, removing the battery lease and adjusting the Volt numbers. Now the LEAF and Volt were basically tied for best up to about 40 miles. The LEAF was best and the Prius worst between 40 and 85 miles, though the Volt was approaching the Prius line by the end of that. After 85 miles the Volt and Prius were basically equal, with the LEAF far behind. Beyond 150 miles traveled in a day the Prius started edging ahead of the Volt.

I'm not saying that my estimates were perfect, or that they would apply to everyone. I'm only saying that I certainly evaluated the three vehicles side by side, and considered that any one of them could satisfy our requirements (with occasional help for the LEAF). From a pure driving cost perspective my conclusion two+ years ago was that the LEAF would be the worst choice of the three, and I still wasn't sure six months later. By that time, however, other factors (like carbon) were starting to weigh more heavily in my decision.

Bottom line: We got a LEAF and kept our Prius -- which has been driven only about 1000 miles in the past ten months.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge.

But what if the Leaf didn't NEED the charge. Then if the goal is not to use gasoline we'd be better off if you charged your Volt and the Leaf gave up the charge spot. Same issue with a Tesla and a Leaf. Which should get priority? The Tesla may have come further and hence "needs" the charge more. On the other hand the Tesla has more range and therefore many not "need" the charge. It's impossible to know without knowing all the facts, and AFAIK you don't file a flight plan when using a public EVSE.

Yep, while an EV may absolutely _need_ a charge, because of it's larger battery, it can probably get away with fewer charges than the PHEV - especially when you consider the Prius plug-in.

Anyway - solution seems simple to me - just charge a fee to charge - make the cost a bit more than it costs to charge at home - and limit time spent non-charging to 30 minutes to an hour when your car finishes charging Put different time limits on different spots to accommodate different requirements.

Scott; how long does the Volt have to run in maintenance mode?

So I wait till I get on I-64 @ 55mph before hitting ok. I also try to wait till I am coming home from work cause obviously when I leave the battery is at 100%. Otherwise it is just spinning the motor with little to no load.

ummm, hmmm... cant you turn off the EV mode whenever you want to even if its full? i would just as habit run for 15 minutes in gas only mode once a month on the freeway (worst case for EV operation...save the battery for in town stuff?)

Well, you can't turn off EV mode, but you can turn on "Mountain Mode" which which puts the minimum SOC before running the engine higher. Not sure if Volt owners do this to help satisfy maintenance mode or not.

 

[Luft]

. . . . . . . . . snip
I am sure I will get hammered for these statements, but they are about as unobjective as can be. Both cars have their high and low points. Personally I like both.
. . . . . . . . . snip

I'm pleasantly surprised and thankfull about how respectfull all of us folks have been as it relates to being critical of e/other's opinion.

+1

Roadburner makes some really good points. For him the Volt is working out okay. It's just not for me. I'm not quite sure why he was afraid of being "hammered." Unlike EV haters who hate people who don't drive what they drive, EV drivers generally don't take the fact that lots of people still want ICE vehicles personally.

 

[Roadburner440]

ummm, hmmm... cant you turn off the EV mode whenever you want to even if its full? i would just as habit run for 15 minutes in gas only mode once a month on the freeway (worst case for EV operation...save the battery for in town stuff?)

The Volt does not let you choose.. I have spent days freezing my butt off at 26F because the engine ONLY comes on at 25F or less, and I wanted to conserve as much battery power as I could for the obvious. :lol: The only way to bump it from EV is to put it in mountain mode, but you must have less than 14 miles or less left in the pack. Other than that the only way to turn the engine on is to open the hood with the car powered on. Which does not good when you are driving. :mrgreen:

As an aside I think both are great cars. Yes the 12V battery thing sucks IF you leave it unplugged for a month or more. I actually had to leave mine unplugged after we moved to Virginia to go back to Florida and take care of some stuff. I did not realize that after 3 days it quit talking to OnStar, and that it would not charge the 12V. Granted it survived perfectly fine, but I spent most of November worrying that I would come back to a dead Volt. If you leave it plugged in though it will keep the 12V topped off. You ask me there are quite a few desirables that the Volt lacks, but it is nothing I can not gripe about on any other car I have ever had. The stupid "buffeting" noise when I only lower 1 or 2 windows without lowering the back is probably the most annoying, and has come standard on every GM passenger car I ever owned. The buffeting is one of the things I checked for on the Leaf during my 3 day extended drive, and thankfully it was not present.

 

[ttweed]

I've never understood the LEAF versus Volt question. They are not in the same category, unless your daily needs are within the Volt's 35-45 mile EV range. Once you consider the Volt's ICE ability, the comparison becomes Volt versus traditional hybrids.

+1.

We never even considered the Volt because it has a tailpipe. It's another category of car entirely--apples and oranges. We already had ICE cars, we wanted zero emissions. No one else had a comparable car on the market. Nissan won our business. End of story.

TT

 

[DaveEV]

The stupid "buffeting" noise when I only lower 1 or 2 windows without lowering the back is probably the most annoying, and has come standard on every GM passenger car I ever owned. The buffeting is one of the things I checked for on the Leaf during my 3 day extended drive, and thankfully it was not present.

The LEAF has the exact opposite - lower the back windows without lowering the front and you'll get that "buffeting".

 

[copdoc]

By the time these mythological beasts known as DC chargers actually exist Volts will probably be able to use them. Actually my guess is that getting rid of FREE Public Charging will eliminate 100% of Volts and 99% of Leafs.

Granted I've only had my leaf for about 7 weeks, but I haven't used a dime of public energy -- even though I'm in an area with a host of public chargers. It's just so much more convenient to plug in at home.

So, unless I'm in the 1% of leaf owners, I'd have to dispute your argument here.

 

[TickTock]

By the time these mythological beasts known as DC chargers actually exist Volts will probably be able to use them. Actually my guess is that getting rid of FREE Public Charging will eliminate 100% of Volts and 99% of Leafs.

Granted I've only had my leaf for about 7 weeks, but I haven't used a dime of public energy -- even though I'm in an area with a host of public chargers. It's just so much more convenient to plug in at home.

So, unless I'm in the 1% of leaf owners, I'd have to dispute your argument here.

+1
I actually do not see pay chargers as a viable business. Fast chargers along major interstates - maybe. Even without, my next car will also be all electric. I'm done with gas.

 

[edatoakrun]

I have spent days freezing my butt off at 26F because the engine ONLY comes on at 25F or less ...

IMO, reality will eventually trump ideology, and hydrocarbon-fueled combustion heaters will be optional in BEVs (and maybe PHEVs) and commonly used, in cold climates.

It makes almost as little sense to fire up a PHEVs ICEV just for cabin heat, as it does to use expensive and inefficient battery energy, to warm the passengers of a BEV.

In fact, a true ICE ”range extender” for a BEV is not a bad Idea, It's just that current designs are all abysmal failures, from the point of energy efficiency and driver utility....

A functional range extender would... not run on gasoline, but a less polluting, and more stable fuel, such as propane (easier refueling) or CNG (lower cost). 5 gallons of Propane, for example, would probably offer about 200 miles of range extension for a LEAF-sized BEV.

The fuel would also be available to a combustion cabin heater, the one use for which battery energy storage is particularly inefficient...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Deleted member 3147]

By the time these mythological beasts known as DC chargers actually exist Volts will probably be able to use them. Actually my guess is that getting rid of FREE Public Charging will eliminate 100% of Volts and 99% of Leafs.

Granted I've only had my leaf for about 7 weeks, but I haven't used a dime of public energy -- even though I'm in an area with a host of public chargers. It's just so much more convenient to plug in at home.

So, unless I'm in the 1% of leaf owners, I'd have to dispute your argument here.

I've owned my Leaf for 4 months, driven over 5000 miles, and never charged anywhere but home. I doubt I'm atypical.

This is not to say that I wouldn't use public charging if it was convenient or necessary.