User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:51 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:12 pm
The reason why I ask, is that I don't know if I really want Tesla Perusing all of my driving data.
Why don't you wonder the same about Nissan?
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:12 pm
Those free updates...aren't free.
It's odd how you equate the updates with any potential monitoring. They aren't the same. In fact, OTA updates usually download over WiFi.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
85K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1059
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:12 pm

I do.. You don't have to allow the tracking. You have to select to allow them to get your data.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

GRA
Posts: 11178
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:02 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:53 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:26 pm
- I'm ready for BEVs, but BEVs and their infrastructure aren't ready for me, although they're finally getting close. Since many of my friends like to visit similar areas and do similar things, few of us are able to make the switch, even though we're all environmentalists who'd love to be able to wave good-bye to fossil-fuels.
You’re not an environmentalist if you’re driving a fossil fuel powered car in 2019.

I’m dumbfounded why you keep preaching anti-EV BS on this forum, for almost a decade. Why haven’t you gotten that hydrogen car that you seem fond of?

The simple answer is, at the core, you prefer oil and fossil fuels over being an environmentalist, because of your misguided self interests, and poor knowledge of EVs. The rest of us are just “doing it”, and you’re still finding reasons why to support oil.

<snip>

You are NOT an environmentalist. You and your friends are a proud oil consumers.

Really not worth a reply as I've explained the reasons for my decision at length, but I do find it ironic to be criticized for not being an environmentalist by someone who believes they are one, who, during the period I've been a member here, by their own account bought at least 9 cars (it may well be more now) with all the attendant energy and resource use attendant on their production and disposal, often discarding them in a year or two; who's proud of having driven 300,000 miles electrically (I've averaged less than 4k miles driving/year over the same period); and who has also flown commercially on several occasions, including to the Middle East, instead of say sailing there:
Let’s make clear what this means. Flying [inter-continentally] once per year has an energy cost slightly bigger than leaving a 1 kW electric fire on, non-stop, 24 hours a day, all year.
https://www.withouthotair.com/c5/page_36.shtml

and also
GCC: Flying first class on a single domestic round trip can contribute more greenhouse gas emissions than a year of driving
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29605

(In addition to choosing to limit my driving I've also chosen not to fly anywhere since 2001).

Apparently I'm not the only environmentalist who makes tradeoff decisions re fossil fuels and their capabilities vs. other techs, and are "proud oil consumers". Enjoy the view out of your all-glass house, and welcome to the club with the rest of us environmentalist sinners. Enough said.
Last edited by GRA on Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11178
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:54 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:31 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:54 am
Why are Model 3's not making it Germany? Even the Leaf outsold it in October.

https://i.imgur.com/FYonrT6.png
It's called "the wave" delivery method. The cars are sent out in batches (~3000 per boat), and they didn't send out any ships in the last few weeks of Sept to minimize how much cars are "in inventory", so there aren't any product to deliver in Oct. It's a well known Tesla phenomenon that the first month of every quarter has the lowest deliveries for every quarter. Plus they have nationalistic pride (totally normal) to sell against too, so Germany may never be as big of a european market as Norway or the UK for Tesla.

Your second reason seems more likely to be true than the first. Via IEVS:
Germany Sets Huge All-Time Plug-In EV Car Sales Record In October
https://insideevs.com/news/382155/germa ... ober-2019/

Almost 12,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered and most of them were PHEVs. . . .

BEV/PHEV comparison

The big surprise in October was the number of plug-in hybrid registrations, which went through the roof (new volume and share record).

BEVs: 4,979 – up 47% at ~1.75% market share
PHEVs: 6,947 – up 248% at ~2.44% market share

Moreover, PHEVs significantly exceeded BEVs. Was it only a single explosion or a new trend?

One of the biggest eye-openers in October was Mercedes-Benz, which managed some way to achieve 2,355 plug-in hybrid registrations, including 1,564 E-Class and 748 C-Class, as well as an additional 50 BEVs. For the brand, 2,405 total registrations is almost 7.2% share.

But it was BMW that sold the most - 2,681 registrations (858 BEVs and 1,823 PHEVs), including 861 BMW i3, 592 BMW 225xe Active Tourer PHEV, 545 BMW 530e PHEV and 438 BMW 330e PHEV.

Another premium brand that shined last month is Porsche - 801 (66 BEVs and 735 PHEVs, including 596 Cayenne PHEV).

Interestingly, Volkswagen noted 1,034 registrations (888 BEVs and 146 PHEVs), which is less than smart (1,066).

Tesla had a slower month this time (no surprise here as it's the 1st month of a quarter) - 293 registrations.

Brand/model results suggest that the plug-in hybrids from premium brands are in high demand in Germany.

That a PHEV is capable of high-speed cruising on the autobahn over a much greater distance than any BEV may also be a factor, seeing as how these are all higher-end marques. We'll have to see how the Taycan and similar German BEVs do vis-a-vis PHEVs once they're introduced.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:51 pm

Can you work a little harder to hide your bias? Right after you've stated "your second reason seems to be more likely", you cite an insideev's report for the 293 sales, to which the author wrote:

"Tesla had a slower month this time (no surprise here as it's the 1st month of a quarter)"

To which, if you had searched Germany's September EV sales, you'd get this:
https://insideevs.com/news/376705/plugi ... -almost-4/

1516 in Sept. 7676 YTD, second only to the Zoe.

And just to refute your claims about PHEV's and highway cruising on the autobahn, the YTD top 3 plug-in vehicles are all BEV's: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/18/te ... es-report/

Just give it a rest GRA. Your anti-BEV bias is blantantly clear. Only you are blind to it.

GRA wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:54 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:31 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:54 am
Why are Model 3's not making it Germany? Even the Leaf outsold it in October.

https://i.imgur.com/FYonrT6.png
It's called "the wave" delivery method. The cars are sent out in batches (~3000 per boat), and they didn't send out any ships in the last few weeks of Sept to minimize how much cars are "in inventory", so there aren't any product to deliver in Oct. It's a well known Tesla phenomenon that the first month of every quarter has the lowest deliveries for every quarter. Plus they have nationalistic pride (totally normal) to sell against too, so Germany may never be as big of a european market as Norway or the UK for Tesla.

Your second reason seems more likely to be true than the first. Via IEVS:
Germany Sets Huge All-Time Plug-In EV Car Sales Record In October
https://insideevs.com/news/382155/germa ... ober-2019/

Almost 12,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered and most of them were PHEVs. . . .

BEV/PHEV comparison

The big surprise in October was the number of plug-in hybrid registrations, which went through the roof (new volume and share record).

BEVs: 4,979 – up 47% at ~1.75% market share
PHEVs: 6,947 – up 248% at ~2.44% market share

Moreover, PHEVs significantly exceeded BEVs. Was it only a single explosion or a new trend?

One of the biggest eye-openers in October was Mercedes-Benz, which managed some way to achieve 2,355 plug-in hybrid registrations, including 1,564 E-Class and 748 C-Class, as well as an additional 50 BEVs. For the brand, 2,405 total registrations is almost 7.2% share.

But it was BMW that sold the most - 2,681 registrations (858 BEVs and 1,823 PHEVs), including 861 BMW i3, 592 BMW 225xe Active Tourer PHEV, 545 BMW 530e PHEV and 438 BMW 330e PHEV.

Another premium brand that shined last month is Porsche - 801 (66 BEVs and 735 PHEVs, including 596 Cayenne PHEV).

Interestingly, Volkswagen noted 1,034 registrations (888 BEVs and 146 PHEVs), which is less than smart (1,066).

Tesla had a slower month this time (no surprise here as it's the 1st month of a quarter) - 293 registrations.

Brand/model results suggest that the plug-in hybrids from premium brands are in high demand in Germany.

That a PHEV is capable of high-speed cruising on the autobahn over a much greater distance than any BEV may also be a factor, seeing as how these are all higher-end marques. We'll have to see how the Taycan and similar German BEVs do vis-a-vis PHEVs once they're introduced.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
Posts: 11178
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:34 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:51 pm
Can you work a little harder to hide your bias? Right after you've stated "your second reason seems to be more likely", you cite an insideev's report for the 293 sales, to which the author wrote:

"Tesla had a slower month this time (no surprise here as it's the 1st month of a quarter)"

To which, if you had searched Germany's September EV sales, you'd get this:
https://insideevs.com/news/376705/plugi ... -almost-4/

1516 in Sept. 7676 YTD, second only to the Zoe.

And just to refute your claims about PHEV's and highway cruising on the autobahn, the YTD top 3 plug-in vehicles are all BEV's: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/18/te ... es-report/

Just give it a rest GRA. Your anti-BEV bias is blantantly clear. Only you are blind to it.

Sure, Tesla numbers are lower this month than last owing to shipments, but that doesn't explain why German marque PHEV numbers have taken off. I have little doubt that pro-home market bias is the major reason for this, combined with an increase in models available plus greater AERs in the current year models. As to my alleged anti-EV bias, as I've pointed out at length I'm all for EVs of all types, and will happily recommend whichever one best fits the operational requirements. In this case, it appears that German customers have decided that higher-end, German-make PHEVs best fit their requirements, at least for now. As the German manufacturers introduce more BEVs with better specs that will likely change.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1059
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:31 pm

A couple more Tesla fire crackers. I agree with Elon that. Chance of instant death from battery pop is low, but thermal runaway or fire still seems to happen and more so than with other EVs (there was one Kona in Canada)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... rging.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... utType=amp

https://marketrealist.com/2019/11/are-t ... roportion/
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:00 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:31 pm
A couple more Tesla fire crackers. I agree with Elon that. Chance of instant death from battery pop is low, but thermal runaway or fire still seems to happen and more so than with other EVs (there was one Kona in Canada)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... rging.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... utType=amp

https://marketrealist.com/2019/11/are-t ... roportion/
Surely by now, you're aware that any Tesla fire gets news coverage, regardless of the extreme measures taken to cause it (tesla crashes usually involve 4 times the kinetic energy of other EV crashes). Yes the leaf has had far fewer fires (from all causes) than Teslas, but in a traffic accident, I'd rather be in a Tesla than a leaf.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:40 am

GRA wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:34 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:51 pm
Can you work a little harder to hide your bias? Right after you've stated "your second reason seems to be more likely", you cite an insideev's report for the 293 sales, to which the author wrote:

"Tesla had a slower month this time (no surprise here as it's the 1st month of a quarter)"

To which, if you had searched Germany's September EV sales, you'd get this:
https://insideevs.com/news/376705/plugi ... -almost-4/

1516 in Sept. 7676 YTD, second only to the Zoe.

And just to refute your claims about PHEV's and highway cruising on the autobahn, the YTD top 3 plug-in vehicles are all BEV's: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/18/te ... es-report/

Just give it a rest GRA. Your anti-BEV bias is blantantly clear. Only you are blind to it.

Sure, Tesla numbers are lower this month than last owing to shipments, but that doesn't explain why German marque PHEV numbers have taken off. I have little doubt that pro-home market bias is the major reason for this, combined with an increase in models available plus greater AERs in the current year models. As to my alleged anti-EV bias, as I've pointed out at length I'm all for EVs of all types, and will happily recommend whichever one best fits the operational requirements. In this case, it appears that German customers have decided that higher-end, German-make PHEVs best fit their requirements, at least for now. As the German manufacturers introduce more BEVs with better specs that will likely change.
PHEV sales were 2360 in Sept, and 6947 in Oct. Looking at BMW and Mercedes numbers, it seems the increase was proportional across all brands. So the increase hardly has anything to do with preference for the german brand. As for PHEV versus BEV sales ratio in Oct, one month out of 10 doesn't make a trend.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

WetEV
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:00 pm
in a traffic accident, I'd rather be in a Tesla than a leaf.
Look for real numbers, not Musk Tweets...
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... the-safest

According to https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-dea ... -and-model

The LEAF is one of the best. Interesting that rollover single car accidents are main cause of death! You can roll over a LEAF??
Tesla isn't listed for death rates, too small of numbers for the most recent (2014) report.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/insurance- ... -and-model
Insurance costs ($$) (2015-2017)(larger is worse)
Vehicle ------------------------ Collision --- Property damage --- Comprehensive --- Personal injury --- Medical payment --- Bodily injury
Nissan Leaf electric ......... -22% ................ -18% .............................. -59% .......................... -21% ....................... -40% ....................... -26%
Tesla Model S 4dr electric 172% .............. -5% ................................ 103% ......................... -33% ........................ -45% ........................ -15%

Looks like the LEAF and Model S are both safer than average. Model 3 is still too new. Both are not the safest.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”