SageBrush
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:01 am

golfcart wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:35 am
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:24 am
Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.
I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.
.
I meant that 60C is the temp ceiling, albeit only for short periods of time.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:05 am

golfcart wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:35 am
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:24 am
Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.
I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.
.
I meant batteries can approach 60C for short periods of time without ill effect. The interesting detail from Bjorn's data was that cooling was not started until the battery reached 45C. I would have liked to watch the cooling ramp up as the battery temp increased but Bjorn mentioned that for now he does not have a meter for cooling. I'll watch again at higher volume; perhaps the A/C power maximum threshold can be marked by the noise increase.

Addendum: I could not discern a ramp up in noise from the battery cooling but Bjorn mentioned that he also thought that the car had a lot of untapped cooling. Perhaps the battery coolant flow can be a good surrogate gauge. I've noticed up to 20l/min through the battery, and up to 40l/min total flow through the system.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

golfcart
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:02 am

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:01 am
golfcart wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:35 am
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:24 am
Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.
I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.
.
I meant that 60C is the temp ceiling, albeit only for short periods of time.
OK that makes more sense, as worded it sounded (to me) like the batteries didn't like to be lower than 60C which would obviously be suspect.
2018 SV

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:10 am

golfcart wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:02 am
OK that makes more sense, as worded it sounded (to me) like the batteries didn't like to be lower than 60C which would obviously be suspect.
.
It sounded goofy to me too after I read it again.

I've been reading about Li plating. I wonder if high battery temperatures are actually required at very high charging speeds in order to avoid plating. @LorenFB might know.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
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Leaf Number: 407811
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:27 am

It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

SageBrush
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:40 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:27 am
It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..
Tesla advisors know about as much as your average MNL poster when it comes to these things. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. The advisor may have been just pointing out that the software is not yet ready for fleet deployment so the only way to get the increased range *today* is as she said.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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EVDRIVER
Moderator
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:01 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:40 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:27 am
It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..
Tesla advisors know about as much as your average MNL poster when it comes to these things. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. The advisor may have been just pointing out that the software is not yet ready for fleet deployment so the only way to get the increased range *today* is as she said.
That could not be more true. If you want really bad advice on a Tesla call an advisor.

golfcart
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:58 am

Bloomberg is running an interesting series on the model 3 that surveys 5000 owners. Should be an interesting read, the first installment is available.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019 ... nd=premium
2018 SV

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:12 pm

GCR:
Tesla Model 3 is approved for NYC yellow cab duty
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... w-cab-duty


This should work a lot better than using 24kWh LEAFs or similar very range-limited BEVs as cabs. In releated news, also GCR:
London gets first official electric black cab in 120 years
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... -120-years

A 40kWh pack said to provide 174 miles of range seems less likely to be adequate, especially with only 50kW charging, although if restricted to the dense ULEV-areas of London it might be okay.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1051
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:48 am

I just left London yesterday (now I’m in Mumbai). EVs in the center of London with the 40 battery will be plenty sufficient if driven with care. Cant’s say we broke 20 mph anywhere in the cabs we were in for the day between meetings.

Looking to site an ev here in India. A former colleague just started working at Tata power and is partially charged (bad pun) with working through issues/data with EV charging now that India is moving forward more quickly.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

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