DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Maybe Leaf Plus coming down in price?
danrjones said:Here is Car and Driver's highway ranges. YMMV but not close to 300 EPA under 30k:
cwerdna said:Table seems to come from https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32603216/ev-range-explained/. It says they tested at 75 mph and unfortunately under varied climate conditions like the with the Model 3 around freezing temps.
alozzy said:There are some really odd results. The EVs with the best aerodynamics (lowest CoD) seem to have a larger gap between their test and the EPA results, which doesn't make any sense since aerodynamic drag should be the biggest factor determining efficiency at those speeds.
How does the LEAF Plus have a closer gap between EPA and "real world" than a model 3 or a Kona Electric?
Got a feeling the testers had a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, making the faster accelerating EVs seem worse than they should be.
If so, that's pretty useless comparison data
Depends on where.danrjones said:The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.
Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
cwerdna said:Depends on where.danrjones said:The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.
Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
IIRC, the speed limits of some of the highways around/in the Seattle area were only 60 mph. And, people drive slow in Western WA. People go at or below the speed limit in the "fast lane" for no reason (daylight, dry, nobody in front) and often, don't move over when cars are piling up behind them.
For some highways, the speed limits would go up as you got further from populated metro areas.
This is in contrast to say the LA area, where I distinctly remember going over 70 mph in the middle lane of 55 mph zone of i-5 and cars were going by on both sides of me, including some zooming by (happens all the time in LA but not as much in the SF Bay Area).
In my part of the Bay Area, the speed limits are 65 mph at max (w/a few highways a bit lower) and 75 mph all the time in those would likely land you some tickets.
danrjones said:cwerdna said:Depends on where.danrjones said:The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.
Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
IIRC, the speed limits of some of the highways around/in the Seattle area were only 60 mph. And, people drive slow in Western WA. People go at or below the speed limit in the "fast lane" for no reason (daylight, dry, nobody in front) and often, don't move over when cars are piling up behind them.
For some highways, the speed limits would go up as you got further from populated metro areas.
This is in contrast to say the LA area, where I distinctly remember going over 70 mph in the middle lane of 55 mph zone of i-5 and cars were going by on both sides of me, including some zooming by (happens all the time in LA but not as much in the SF Bay Area).
In my part of the Bay Area, the speed limits are 65 mph at max (w/a few highways a bit lower) and 75 mph all the time in those would likely land you some tickets.
That's true of course. I'm thinking Southern and Eastern CA and Arizona and Nevada and beyond. The open roads so to speak. The posted speed limit in AZ and I-40 is 75 but most are doing 80 or more. In my area the official speed limit on US-395 and CA-14 is 65 or 70 depending on the area but traffic routinely is going 75. I'm certain I've seen posted limits out in Nevada at 80.
DaveinOlyWA said:alozzy said:There are some really odd results. The EVs with the best aerodynamics (lowest CoD) seem to have a larger gap between their test and the EPA results, which doesn't make any sense since aerodynamic drag should be the biggest factor determining efficiency at those speeds.
How does the LEAF Plus have a closer gap between EPA and "real world" than a model 3 or a Kona Electric?
Got a feeling the testers had a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, making the faster accelerating EVs seem worse than they should be.
If so, that's pretty useless comparison data
TMS. All ya gotta do is test them all on a cold day.
cwerdna said:Depends on where.danrjones said:The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.
Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
IIRC, the speed limits of some of the highways around/in the Seattle area were only 60 mph. And, people drive slow in Western WA. People go at or below the speed limit in the "fast lane" for no reason (daylight, dry, nobody in front) and often, don't move over when cars are piling up behind them.
For some highways, the speed limits would go up as you got further from populated metro areas.
This is in contrast to say the LA area, where I distinctly remember going over 70 mph in the middle lane of 55 mph zone of i-5 and cars were going by on both sides of me, including some zooming by (happens all the time in LA but not as much in the SF Bay Area).
In my part of the Bay Area, the speed limits are 65 mph at max (w/a few highways a bit lower) and 75 mph all the time in those would likely land you some tickets.
CD is only half of the equation. You also need to know what the cross-section area is. A car with a lower CD but larger cross-section could get worse mileage then a smaller car with a higher CD.alozzy said:DaveinOlyWA said:alozzy said:There are some really odd results. The EVs with the best aerodynamics (lowest CoD) seem to have a larger gap between their test and the EPA results, which doesn't make any sense since aerodynamic drag should be the biggest factor determining efficiency at those speeds.
How does the LEAF Plus have a closer gap between EPA and "real world" than a model 3 or a Kona Electric?
Got a feeling the testers had a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, making the faster accelerating EVs seem worse than they should be.
If so, that's pretty useless comparison data
TMS. All ya gotta do is test them all on a cold day.
Doesn't the Model 3 use a resistive heater, rather than a heat pump? That could explain some of the difference too
wwhitney said:Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.
Cheers, Wayne
GRA said:wwhitney said:Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.
Cheers, Wayne
And driving above 55 wastes less energy than driving 65, and so on. As long as the purpose of your trip is primarily to use as little energy as possible (but in that case, why are you using a car, or FTM taking the trip in the first place?), driving slower down to quite ridiculous speeds will use less energy in a BEV.
However, as most people drive with the goal of getting to their destination quicker than they could by other means, maximum energy efficiency is well down their priority list.
LeftieBiker said:GRA said:wwhitney said:Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.
Cheers, Wayne
And driving above 55 wastes less energy than driving 65, and so on. As long as the purpose of your trip is primarily to use as little energy as possible (but in that case, why are you using a car, or FTM taking the trip in the first place?), driving slower down to quite ridiculous speeds will use less energy in a BEV.
However, as most people drive with the goal of getting to their destination quicker than they could by other means, maximum energy efficiency is well down their priority list.
Reductio ad nauseum is an old hat indeed. You need new material.
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