Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

[DougWantsALeaf]

Totally agree.

The Leaf would do we if they could show a starting point of $24,900 , which is where it ends up starting anyway. This then puts the Ariya in a separate price class even if there is a little overlap at the top of the range. Msrp does matter in terms of bringing people into te dealership. I am a fan of fixing the price of cars. For cars under 30k, I think its better for the dealers as well.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Totally agree.

The Leaf would do we if they could show a starting point of $24,900 , which is where it ends up starting anyway. This then puts the Ariya in a separate price class even if there is a little overlap at the top of the range. Msrp does matter in terms of bringing people into te dealership. I am a fan of fixing the price of cars. For cars under 30k, I think its better for the dealers as well.

Not seeing that but am thinking a $30,000 E Plus base price is a possibility. That would be in the teens for some

 

[LeftieBiker]

Interesting times in so many ways. Kudos to Nissan for rolling out a new vehicle in the midst of all the crisis at so many levels.

The car was already largely developed before the pandemic. (I was involved in focus group testing for it last year.) Nissan is counting on it to help them financially.

 

[johnlocke]

Odds of a cost reduced Leaf are nil. The 40 KWH is the least expensive but it's easier to start fresh then cost reduce an existing model. Sub $30K without government incentives is going to require significantly cheaper batteries (Li-sulfur?) and minimum of 200 mile range to sell well. You'll also need a public charging system for apt. dwellers and those without a garage. For those people, even charging twice weekly will be problematic. 40KWH is OK if you can charge every night or two overnight, but without access to level 2 charging at work or at home, public fast charging is a pain that costs you time and money. Losing an hour more than once a week for charging is a non-starter for a lot of people. Even a half hour might be too much for some. Plus the hassle of finding an available fast charger and the fact that there are a lot more gas stations than charging stations. For a lot of people, 300 miles is the magic number. That would give the average driver a week's worth of driving with some margin of error between charges.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I somewhat agree. It should be noted, though, that Nissan has been cutting costs on the Leaf II since they designed it to reuse most of the Leaf I. It's just that the money they have saved from things like making the heat pump and heated seats and steering wheel optional has gone to their bottom line, not to reducing the MSRP. Well, some of it was used to not raise the MSRP...

 

[alozzy]

The $40K starting point makes it more expensive than both the Kona Electric and the Niro EV, but less than the model Y.

I can't afford a new car and, given the economic devastation of COVID 19, I suspect more and more people will consider a > $40K EV unaffordable. The gap between rich and poor will only grow bigger as a result of COVID 19, as tons of people go bankrupt and lose their homes when government funding drives up at the same time that those with deeper pockets will snap up real estate bargains.

In the face of all that, I doubt the Ariya will be a success. Nissan's strategy of getting a foothold in the luxury EV market seems deeply flawed, they aren't perceived as a luxury brand and they would have to spend a ton of money on marketing to change that.

Since I can't recall the last time I saw a LEAF ad, I'll be shocked if Nissan does a marketing blitz on the Ariya.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Indeed about the gap between rich and poor.

My work pays very well and some dude at work (I don't know him) had a https://www.porsche.com/international/models/911/911-gt3-models/911-gt3/ (seems like they currently start at $143K USD). Apparently, he'd taken it to the track and didn't even have plates for it but rolled it. And, I hear insurance wasn't going to cover it so I heard he was getting it fixed.

He recently picked up a Model Y.

Some people splurge/spend a lot. Before lockdown, there was a huge variation in cars at work, ranging from one I guy I know who drives a salvage title Hyundai to people w/Model X, Model S and even some exotics.

I haven't had time to look into Ariya interior room details, but it's not like the Kona EV is huge inside from looking at the comparo of it vs. Bolt at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lsVDdgLXho, skip to ~4:18. And, the Kona EV has less rear seat room than Bolt if you put the front seats back than the Bolt.

 

[LeftieBiker]

They may get lucky. Reports of bad build quality for the Y are getting pretty numerous, and affluent Techies who don't fancy spending many hours trying to get their new car finished correctly may just decide to save $5-10k and get an Ariya. They will need to do some marketing, though!

Cwerdna slipped in ahead. Ah, to have that kind of money available! I'll be sweating a little to lease an ePlus next year.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

^^^
Indeed about the gap between rich and poor.

My work pays very well and some dude at work (I don't know him) had a https://www.porsche.com/international/models/911/911-gt3-models/911-gt3/ (seems like they currently start at $143K USD). Apparently, he'd taken it to the track and didn't even have plates for it but rolled it. And, I hear insurance wasn't going to cover it so I heard he was getting it fixed.

He recently picked up a Model Y.

Some people splurge/spend a lot. Before lockdown, there was a huge variation in cars at work, ranging from one I guy I know who drives a salvage title Hyundai to people w/Model X, Model S and even some exotics.

I haven't had time to look into Ariya interior room details, but it's not like the Kona EV is huge inside from looking at the comparo of it vs. Bolt at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lsVDdgLXho, skip to ~4:18. And, the Kona EV has less rear seat room than Bolt if you put the front seats back than the Bolt.

Since seats are movable, I only look at combined F/R leg room and the Bolt has the most, the Kona the least so you have the greatest difference going.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The $40K starting point makes it more expensive than both the Kona Electric and the Niro EV, but less than the model Y.

I can't afford a new car and, given the economic devastation of COVID 19, I suspect more and more people will consider a > $40K EV unaffordable. The gap between rich and poor will only grow bigger as a result of COVID 19, as tons of people go bankrupt and lose their homes when government funding drives up at the same time that those with deeper pockets will snap up real estate bargains.

In the face of all that, I doubt the Ariya will be a success. Nissan's strategy of getting a foothold in the luxury EV market seems deeply flawed, they aren't perceived as a luxury brand and they would have to spend a ton of money on marketing to change that.

Since I can't recall the last time I saw a LEAF ad, I'll be shocked if Nissan does a marketing blitz on the Ariya.

That would be true w/o incentives and the slow to market pace Nissan is maintaining will hurt them a lot. I think the car will be a winner simply because incentives will bring even high end trims into the low to mid 30's in some areas but it is still an upscale market that has been carved up by Tesla so another year will hurt them a lot.

But it could work to their advantage. Right now the Y's aura is still strong. If the Y has a shaky start like the X, I see a lot of people bailing especially now that EA has really shown a lot of progress in getting stations up and running and that pace seems to be accelerating.

I also see a new wave of funding when Biden takes office. Part of it will be recovery but part of it will simply be redirecting the country into a new greener, cleaner direction and that will take a ton of money but will create a ton of jobs.

 

[Learjet]

I also see a new wave of funding when Biden takes office. Part of it will be recovery but part of it will simply be redirecting the country into a new greener, cleaner direction and that will take a ton of money but will create a ton of jobs.

Thanks for making me laugh this morning. No way Biden will win.....but keep dreaming and ignore reality.

I'll save this post for November

 

[WetEV]

I also see a new wave of funding when Biden takes office. Part of it will be recovery but part of it will simply be redirecting the country into a new greener, cleaner direction and that will take a ton of money but will create a ton of jobs.

Thanks for making me laugh this morning. No way Biden will win.....but keep dreaming and ignore reality.

I'll save this post for November

Trump has cheated on his bankers, has cheated his investors, has cheated his wives and has cheated his country. He will cheat you too.

What I wonder is: why do you want Trump to win?

 

[Learjet]

I also see a new wave of funding when Biden takes office. Part of it will be recovery but part of it will simply be redirecting the country into a new greener, cleaner direction and that will take a ton of money but will create a ton of jobs.

Thanks for making me laugh this morning. No way Biden will win.....but keep dreaming and ignore reality.

I'll save this post for November

Trump has cheated on his bankers, has cheated his investors, has cheated his wives and has cheated his country. He will cheat you too.

What I wonder is: why do you want Trump to win?

Where in my post did I "say who I wanted to win" Just saying who will win :roll:

And your... cheated this, cheated that...no facts...just BS....What about the Biden's....Hunter Biden ring a bell? if we are going to play that game?

I came to this forum to learn and talk about BEVs...there are enough other places to talk politics...please!

 

[danrjones]

Back to the Ariya...

Alex from Alex on auto's said Nissan tax credit has run out. Is that right? Without 7500 off I just don't see the Ariya as viable for me. 50k is too much.

Looks good though.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If the Ariya doesn't come out until 2021 it will miss the full tax credit. There will still be a credit of $1875 for a while after that. I wonder if they will take pre-orders in 2020 to get around that?

 

[GRA]

GCC'

Nissan's move to CCS
fast-charging makes CHAdeMO a legacy standard

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...fast-charging-makes-chademo-a-legacy-standard

With the release of charging specifications for the Ariya electric crossover, Nissan effectively put CHAdeMO on notice.

The automaker revealed that it would be equipping the Ariya electric crossover, which arrives in the second half of 2021, with CCS-format DC fast charging rather than the CHAdeMO-format charging it’s used—and actively supported—since 2010, when it introduced the Leaf. . . .

Figured it was just a matter of time. Thank heavens we're now down to 2, and hopefully Tesla will also go to CCS-1 here, as they've done in Europe with CCS-2. This should help speed up QC deployment, as well as making the transition to BEVs simpler for the average customer.

 

[cwerdna]

If the Ariya doesn't come out until 2021 it will miss the full tax credit. There will still be a credit of $1875 for a while after that. I wonder if they will take pre-orders in 2020 to get around that?

Nissan hasn't hit the 200K qualifying vehicles in the US AFAIK yet. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml still shows full credit.

https://insideevs.com/features/337511/november-update-4-automakers-closest-to-losing-federal-tax-credit/ has a copy of the image that is busted on the .gov page. I don't have an up to date count for Nissan (anyone here have it?) but it's possible that Nissan might still have the full $7500 or be down to $3750 by the time Ariya ships in the US. They could help ensure it by stemming the supply of Leafs in the US until Ariya arrives.

Per https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-scorecard/, Nissan sold a bit over 12K Leafs in the US in 2019 and halfway thru 2020 has only done 3K Leafs in the US per https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-6421e197e79460fc32ead4abcf00237f-nissan-group-reports-second-quarter-2020-us-sales.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I left out the word "late" before "2021." Maybe they are trying to time it so that there will be a rush in early 2021, to order the Ariya before tax credit reduces.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't followed when in 2021 exactly... I originally thought end of 2021 but it seems like it could be fall 2021 or just 2nd half of 2021.

But, even if end of 2021, it's possible it could still get the full $7500 or be at the $3750 phase. Anyone have an accurate count of where Nissan is on US Leaf deliveries?

If Nissan were at say 170K already in the US (I think that's too high), I don't think they're suddenly going to have another 30K between now and 4Q 2021 considering they only did 12K in 2019 and are at 3K halfway thru 2020. And, it's not like the tax credit gets reduced right upon the 200K mark. There are the phaseout periods in the graphic I pointed to.

People actually need to take delivery of a vehicle by a certain time to be eligible for the tax credit during that time. Orders/pre-orders w/o vehicle being handed over don't count.

 

[LeftieBiker]

People actually need to take delivery of a vehicle by a certain time to be eligible for the tax credit during that time. Orders/pre-orders w/o vehicle being handed over don't count.

Not even if the car is pre-purchased? Dang...