The New Tire Replacement Post

[sredlin]

I guess it's about time for a bump on this thread. I need to replace my OEM Ecopia tires now at 30k miles and since I was not impressed with the short lifespan or the performance of these tires, I'm considering another brand. My commute is 30 miles round trip of mostly freeway driving on I-15, and I'm considering Michelin Primacy MXV4s, Michelin Premier A/S, and Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max tires right now. So please feel free to share your experiences with these particular tires. At this point my biggest concern is selecting an appropriate tire to minimize the impact to my freeway range, closely following by getting a tire with longer tread life than the OEM Ecopia tires. Any thoughts here will be greatly appreciated.

 

[mwalsh]

I really like the MXV4s. Yes I took a range hit initially (down from 4.7m/kWh to 4.2m/kWh), but I'm clawing it back some now (4.4m/kWh) though I don't realistically expect to be back at where I was.

 

[edatoakrun]

I guess it's about time for a bump on this thread. I need to replace my OEM Ecopia tires now at 30k miles and since I was not impressed with the short lifespan or the performance of these tires, I'm considering another brand...At this point my biggest concern is selecting an appropriate tire to minimize the impact to my freeway range, closely following by getting a tire with longer tread life than the OEM Ecopia tires. Any thoughts here will be greatly appreciated.

I replaced mine in July, nearly bald after ~27k of mostly mountain driving, with aftermarket Ecopias.

Remember, you should get a pro-rated treadwear warranty on replacement Ecopias, mine is 60k miles, IIRC.

So, next time I replace them (assuming I get ~the same treadwear) it shouldn't cost much.

There also seems to be a slight efficiency improvement in the 2014 Ecopias over the 2011 OEs (in my typically low speed driving, at the same level of wear) but expect a significant loss of efficiency going from extremely worn tires to any new tires with full tread thickness, especially in cold weather, at lower speeds.

At freeway speed energy use is largely due to air resistance.

So the effects of differing tires are not likely to be a very significant factor, in your freeway range, as compared with all lower-speed driving.

 

[ranss12]

Why aren't you considering Michelin Energy Saver A/S? They have Michelins lowest LRR rating, probably better than Ecopia in this regard, and are much better in all other aspects.

 

[sredlin]

Why aren't you considering Michelin Energy Saver A/S? They have Michelins lowest LRR rating, probably better than Ecopia in this regard, and are much better in all other aspects.

Well I've called around and the local shops have not even offered those tires as an option for my car, maybe they're special order or something and I would have to request them specifically? I did some research on tirerack.com as well and those tires don't seem to show up in searches for my 2011 Leaf either, and I don't know why? I guess I'll call around again and ask about these tires and see what they say?

 

[sredlin]

I guess it's about time for a bump on this thread. I need to replace my OEM Ecopia tires now at 30k miles and since I was not impressed with the short lifespan or the performance of these tires, I'm considering another brand...At this point my biggest concern is selecting an appropriate tire to minimize the impact to my freeway range, closely following by getting a tire with longer tread life than the OEM Ecopia tires. Any thoughts here will be greatly appreciated.

I replaced mine in July, nearly bald after ~27k of mostly mountain driving, with aftermarket Ecopias.

Remember, you should get a pro-rated treadwear warranty on replacement Ecopias, mine is 60k miles, IIRC.

So, next time I replace them (assuming I get ~the same treadwear) it shouldn't cost much.

There also seems to be a slight efficiency improvement in the 2014 Ecopias over the 2011 OEs (in my typically low speed driving, at the same level of wear) but expect a significant loss of efficiency going from extremely worn tires to any new tires with full tread thickness, especially in cold weather, at lower speeds.

At freeway speed energy use is largely due to air resistance.

So the effects of differing tires are not likely to be a very significant factor, in your freeway range, as compared with all lower-speed driving.

Did you get a pro-rated tread wear warranty credit on the original tires that came with the car? Because the local Firestone tire shop salesman told me that there is no tread wear warranty on the original tires that I have on the car, and hence no warranty credit is available for me to replace the bald Ecopia tires with new Ecopia tires. And his out-the-door price of $686 for new Ecopia tires was somewhat less than impressive to say the least when I had already called Costco and was quoted a price of $450 out-the-door.

 

[sredlin]

I really like the MXV4s. Yes I took a range hit initially (down from 4.7m/kWh to 4.2m/kWh), but I'm clawing it back some now (4.4m/kWh) though I don't realistically expect to be back at where I was.

That seems like a fairly big percentage hit to the range, how many miles have you put on the MXV4s now that you're doing a bit better at 4.4miles/kWh? And are those numbers derived from the onboard battery monitoring/modeling systems? I did a check on my own miles/kWh based on trip meter/odometer readings and the kWh readings from my home charger after I do a 100% charge overnight and I found that I am getting 3.23miles/kWh on my bald Ecopia tires. I would liken my method more to an MPG calculation of an ICE car where you look at your trip meter/odometer and the number of gallons it takes to refill your tank, I don't know if this is a better method to calculate miles/kWh or not though, but it makes more sense to me than using the battery monitoring/modeling software in the car.

 

[edatoakrun]

...
Remember, you should get a pro-rated treadwear warranty on replacement Ecopias, mine is 60k miles, IIRC.

So, next time I replace them (assuming I get ~the same treadwear) it shouldn't cost much...

Did you get a pro-rated tread wear warranty credit on the original tires that came with the car?...

NO. None of he OE tires have a tread wear mileage warranty.

My driving is very hard on tread, and I have never come close to getting the warrantied miles.

America's tires has never given me any problems on the warranty.

 

[sredlin]

...
Remember, you should get a pro-rated treadwear warranty on replacement Ecopias, mine is 60k miles, IIRC.

So, next time I replace them (assuming I get ~the same treadwear) it shouldn't cost much...

Did you get a pro-rated tread wear warranty credit on the original tires that came with the car?...

NO. None of he OE tires have a tread wear mileage warranty.

My driving is very hard on tread, and I have never come close to getting the warrantied miles.

America's tires has never given me any problems on the warranty.

That's what I've always understood about OE tires, but the Firestone salesman made sure I knew that before I even asked. He was not a good salesman because I hinted that I was not impressed with my Ecopia tires that were bald at 30k, and he didn't even offer any alternative tires with better wear ratings to me? And then of course his price was sort of outrageous as well, $200+ more than Costco.

 

[garsh]

Why aren't you considering Michelin Energy Saver A/S?

It appears that the Michelins aren't available in the correct 16" size (205/55R16) for the Leaf:
Michelin Energy Saver A/S, specs

 

[asimba2]

So I can assume that my chances of making it to the end of my 45,000 mile lease (with legal tread) on the original Ecopias is slim to none? If not, am I money ahead to buy some decent looking wheels and tires, run them and sell them when I turn my lease in? (As opposed to spending $700 on new tires then giving the car back.)

 

[dgpcolorado]

...I did a check on my own miles/kWh based on trip meter/odometer readings and the kWh readings from my home charger after I do a 100% charge overnight and I found that I am getting 3.23miles/kWh on my bald Ecopia tires. I would liken my method more to an MPG calculation of an ICE car where you look at your trip meter/odometer and the number of gallons it takes to refill your tank, I don't know if this is a better method to calculate miles/kWh or not though, but it makes more sense to me than using the battery monitoring/modeling software in the car.

That seems like a valid way to measure driving efficiency, so long as you always charge about the same amount and always go to 100%. (Why? Because charging efficiency drops as you approach 100%, as compared to charging below 80%, so you need to have the same charge profile to get good data.)

Be aware, however, that there are a number of factors that will affect mileage efficiency — even over exactly the same route — such as weather (temperature, wind, and the like), traffic, speed, acceleration/braking, heater/AC use, and so forth. Some you have some control over but there isn't much you can do about weather or differences in traffic patterns. The variables can make a significant difference in mileage efficiency even if the tires are the same and at the same air pressure.

 

[sredlin]

...I did a check on my own miles/kWh based on trip meter/odometer readings and the kWh readings from my home charger after I do a 100% charge overnight and I found that I am getting 3.23miles/kWh on my bald Ecopia tires. I would liken my method more to an MPG calculation of an ICE car where you look at your trip meter/odometer and the number of gallons it takes to refill your tank, I don't know if this is a better method to calculate miles/kWh or not though, but it makes more sense to me than using the battery monitoring/modeling software in the car.

That seems like a valid way to measure driving efficiency, so long as you always charge about the same amount and always go to 100%. (Why? Because charging efficiency drops as you approach 100%, as compared to charging below 80%, so you need to have the same charge profile to get good data.)

Be aware, however, that there are a number of factors that will affect mileage efficiency — even over exactly the same route — such as weather (temperature, wind, and the like), traffic, speed, acceleration/braking, heater/AC use, and so forth. Some you have some control over but there isn't much you can do about weather or differences in traffic patterns. The variables can make a significant difference in mileage efficiency even if the tires are the same and at the same air pressure.

Well for me in San Diego, the weather is a minimal factor as it's pretty consistently similar from day to day, and I never use the climate control, summer or winter, to save range. And I have the carpool lane sticker so traffic is typically moving at least as fast as I want to go, 65mph. So I would suspect the biggest variable here is the charge profile you mentioned, but my guess is that if I'm always set up for a 100% charge then that should be fairly consistent as well. I think as long as the charger gives me an accurate kWh value, my fill up the tank method should be pretty effective.

So which new tire will be close to matching the efficiency of my 2011 Ecopia tires, and hopefully have a longer tread life as well?

 

[DaveEV]

So which new tire will be close to matching the efficiency of my 2011 Ecopia tires, and hopefully have a longer tread life as well?

I think the only one of the 3 options might get close would be the FuelMax tires. But I'm not aware of anyone who has them and has reported on their efficiency on the LEAF. I do have those tires on our Prius and they were as good as the OEM tires, but after they've worn in they've gotten noisy - they appear to be susceptible to scalloping if your alignment isn't perfect.

I currently have the DiscountTire/AmericasTire RoadHugger GT Eco (aka Kumho KH30). These were down about 10% efficiency initially on my commute of San Diego backroads, but at freeway speeds (65 mph) the hit appears to be less noticeable. That makes sense since rolling resistance is a smaller fraction of total resistance at freeway speeds compared to lower speeds. After 2 months and 2k miles, they appear to have made up at least half of the 10% efficiency hit, but it's hard to tell with the cooler weather compared to 2 months ago.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So which new tire will be close to matching the efficiency of my 2011 Ecopia tires, and hopefully have a longer tread life as well?

The Goodyear Eagle L/S tires I got new for $375 (for 4) are wearing well and my efficiency is close to the Ecopias - about 4.3 M/KWH. They could be better in heavy rain and they aren't aggressive for snow (neither are the Ecopias) but I'm happy enough with them. They are US-made but the temp/load ratings aren't high (also like the Ecopias). They do handle better.

 

[sredlin]

So I can assume that my chances of making it to the end of my 45,000 mile lease (with legal tread) on the original Ecopias is slim to none? If not, am I money ahead to buy some decent looking wheels and tires, run them and sell them when I turn my lease in? (As opposed to spending $700 on new tires then giving the car back.)

I just know that the Ecopia tires on the 2011 Leaf didn't last long, the shoulders were at the wear markers probably around 25k miles, but it's pretty dry in Southern California lately, so I wasn't worried about it until now when we will hopefully start seeing some rain. So unless Bridgestone improved the wear on those tires, I would doubt that you'll reach 45k miles before they wear out? And if you have to buy new Ecopia tires try Costco, I was quoted $450 out the door at our local Costco. Of course if you want to make your Leaf standout with new rims, maybe you could come up with a nice low rolling resistance setup that looks nice and at least matches your current range?

 

[sredlin]

So which new tire will be close to matching the efficiency of my 2011 Ecopia tires, and hopefully have a longer tread life as well?

I think the only one of the 3 options might get close would be the FuelMax tires. But I'm not aware of anyone who has them and has reported on their efficiency on the LEAF. I do have those tires on our Prius and they were as good as the OEM tires, but after they've worn in they've gotten noisy - they appear to be susceptible to scalloping if your alignment isn't perfect.

I currently have the DiscountTire/AmericasTire RoadHugger GT Eco (aka Kumho KH30). These were down about 10% efficiency initially on my commute of San Diego backroads, but at freeway speeds (65 mph) the hit appears to be less noticeable. That makes sense since rolling resistance is a smaller fraction of total resistance at freeway speeds compared to lower speeds. After 2 months and 2k miles, they appear to have made up at least half of the 10% efficiency hit, but it's hard to tell with the cooler weather compared to 2 months ago.

I saw an earlier post from you on the Kumho/Road Hugger GT tires and the price is certainly attractive, but Costco has a good deal on the Ecopia tires right now. So if I want to match efficiency, maybe I should just suck it up and hope the 2014 non OEM Ecopia tires last longer than the stock tires? I wonder if the 89 load rating on the stock tires has a lot to do with how quickly they wore out, because the best deal at Costco right now is for the 91 load rating Ecopia, which may fit the weight of the Leaf better?

 

[ranss12]

ranss12 wrote:
Why aren't you considering Michelin Energy Saver A/S?

It appears that the Michelins aren't available in the correct 16" size (205/55R16) for the Leaf:
Michelin Energy Saver A/S, specs

Yes, I guess you are correct - the Energy Savers are available, just not the Energy Savers A/S. The non-A/S tires are listed as summer touring tires.

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/205/55/16/tires

 

[sredlin]

ranss12 wrote:
Why aren't you considering Michelin Energy Saver A/S?

It appears that the Michelins aren't available in the correct 16" size (205/55R16) for the Leaf:
Michelin Energy Saver A/S, specs

Yes, I guess you are correct - the Energy Savers are available, just not the Energy Savers A/S. The non-A/S tires are listed as summer touring tires.

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/205/55/16/tires

I found a shop here that has the Energy Savers, I guess they may be summer tires, because they don't have the "A/S" designation?

https://www.bigotires.com/Tire-Detail/MICHELIN/ENERGY-SAVER/16690" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem sort of pricey too, I wonder if they're worth it?

 

[DaveEV]

I saw an earlier post from you on the Kumho/Road Hugger GT tires and the price is certainly attractive, but Costco has a good deal on the Ecopia tires right now. So if I want to match efficiency, maybe I should just suck it up and hope the 2014 non OEM Ecopia tires last longer than the stock tires? I wonder if the 89 load rating on the stock tires has a lot to do with how quickly they wore out, because the best deal at Costco right now is for the 91 load rating Ecopia, which may fit the weight of the Leaf better?

If you want to match efficiency, you can't go wrong with the Ecopia and they are reasonably priced. I don't think anyone has seen a difference in efficiency or ride between the 89/91 load rated Ecopias.

I found a shop here that has the Energy Savers, I guess they may be summer tires, because they don't have the "A/S" designation?

https://www.bigotires.com/Tire-Detail/MICHELIN/ENERGY-SAVER/16690" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem sort of pricey too, I wonder if they're worth it?

Someone else said that they wore out very quickly for them, so for the price, it may not be worth it.