Blink QC charging fees

[derkraut]

the Prius has other downsides (noisy, jerky power delivery, pollutes like crazy).

Noisy, yes. Jerky power delivery... not really. Pollutes like crazy? No.

Uh, yeah, compared to the LEAF or any other EV:

Jerky power delivery: the Prius lurches off the line with an awful delay while you wait for the engine to turn over, the engine takes forever to spin up into it's peak power bank when you punch the accelerator even after it's running, and occasionally shudders when the engine shuts off as the car makes sure the engine is in the optimum position for restart.

Pollutes like crazy: Every time I start the thing up and I'm standing outside, the thing stinks nearly as bad as a 2-stroke lawn mower. Not to mention has at least double the CO2 emissions per mile of the LEAF on CA grid power never mind the solar panels on my roof.

But hey - maybe if you actually owned an EV instead of hanging out on all the EV forums you'd realize that. The Prius is really that bad to drive in comparison. As long as the range works for you, you never want to go back to driving a Prius after driving an EV.

So yeah - to avoid both of those issues I'll happily pay more than what it costs to fuel the Prius (about $0.09/mi) if it lets me drive the LEAF. Let's say I want to drive 100 miles - 60 miles on home EV juice and 40 miles on QC juice. Prius would cost about $9 in gas to drive 100 miles. Home EV juice costs me about $0.14 / kWh and I get about 3.5 mi/kWh from the wall, so 60 miles would cost me $2.40 leaving me $6.60 to pay for QC before I get to the point where driving the Prius is cheaper.

A $5 session fee would work out great in this scenario and even up to $7-8 / session would not be much different than driving the Prius.

And comparing to the Prius is a worst case scenario - say your other car only gets 35 mpg and uses 30% more fuel - then that 100 mi would cost about $12 in gas leaving me nearly $10 to pay for QC before it gets to the point where driving the econobox is cheaper. Assuming 40 miles, the QC incremental cost is $0.25 / mi or 3x the cost of driving the Prius and nearly 10x the cost of charging at home - but you can see that it's still worth it!

If charging fees gets us closer to the point where these companies will finally be able to start generating some revenue and accelerate the deployment of charging infrastructure which will enable more EVs to hit the roads and make public charging easier when you really do need it - yeah - I'm going to pay and I'll happily do it - even if the incremental costs are significantly more than driving the Prius. Now if only they'd install a few of these stations in spots where I can actually use them more often than once a month...

Hey Drees: I don't know what model of Prius you're describing here; but mine sure as hell doesn't resemble what you've described. I drove my '06 from Las Vegas to San Diego a couple weeks ago (332 miles), non-stop, on 6.3 gal of 87 octane. I drove 70mph+ most of the way with air on. At $4 per gallon gas, that figures to be around 7 1/2 cents per mile. Never had to look for a charging station, or worry about range, either. I love my Leaf for local driving; but let's give credit where credit is due. :roll: :roll:

 

[garygid]

Blink should be required to give you a $30 credit for
showing up at one of their QC stations, only to find
it "on the blink", and you are unable to charge.

Then, they might have an incentive to repair their
broken units, and quickly.

 

[walterbays]

These people are floating a trial balloon right now. They want to start the bidding at an introductory rate of $5.00 per session. They put out a report to their investors stating that they plan on charging $2.00 per 2 minutes. I guess that means they want to charge $1.00 per minute in two minute increments. I won't pay that much. It's just not going to happen.

Blink people aren't stupid; they must suspect that a flat rate per session will induce people to stay longer than they need, crowding the stations. But it *might* be to gather more price sensitivity data for the EV Project and/or for themselves. They have some (limited) data on how people use free QC. Next they can see how they use QC with a session fee. Then they can start collecting more money, charging by the minute, and see how people respond.

They could plan to charge $2 per 2 minutes to regular members like they charge $2 per hour L2 for regular members and $1 per 2 minutes for "Blink Plus" members. Later they'd begin charging an annual subscription fee for that.

If a typical Blink session were 15 minutes and delivered the same charge as a typical 20-25 minute EVoasis session that would be about the same cost at peak time, though I think a peak NRG session is supposed to be $10. If Blink managed to finally install a reasonable number of stations in the area <edit> and if they managed to make their units reliable, I'd consider a $30/year subscription for preferential access to the network to be reasonable. What I wouldn't consider reasonable is $50/year for Blink access plus $50/year for NRG access plus $50/year for EVoasis access - and needing all of them in order to have barely adequate coverage.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I don't care how they charge, I wil not give a dime to this company. If it is free I wil use it since my tax dollars funded their excessive waste and junk products. Just wait until they ruin the CP network with their new "partnership".

 

[davewill]

I don't care how they charge, I wil not give a dime to this company. ...

Well, that's at least one car people won't have to worry about waiting behind.

 

[DaveEV]

Pollutes like crazy: Every time I start the thing up and I'm standing outside, the thing stinks nearly as bad as a 2-stroke lawn mower.

There's something wrong with your car. You should take it to the dealer.

There's nothing wrong with it. Go stand by the tailpipe after the engine starts up on a cold start. It stinks. Catalytic converters take time to warm up. A minute or two later and it's clean, but man - don't accidentally start your Prius in the garage with the door closed. You have to remember that after driving the LEAF.

What % of the current charging infrastructure has already been paid for with government grants? For the chargers that have been free, was the electric service also paid for with grants or via some other means (i.e. power companies/state/local govt footing the bill)?

No chargers have been free except for the easy home L2 stations. Even if the equipment was free, commercial charging is expensive, maintaining them is expensive and the electricity is expensive. I don't see why so many people expect to pay the cost of residential electricity in a commercial setting and expect businesses to install thousands of stations across the country.

Hey Drees: I don't know what model of Prius you're describing here; but mine sure as hell doesn't resemble what you've described. I drove my '06 from Las Vegas to San Diego a couple weeks ago (332 miles), non-stop, on 6.3 gal of 87 octane. I drove 70mph+ most of the way with air on. At $4 per gallon gas, that figures to be around 7 1/2 cents per mile.

Yeah, obviously many people are fine with the poor driving characteristics of the Prius. But you're also quibbling over 1.5c/mi? Good job getting 53 mpg at 70+mph - going downhill from Vegas to SD must have helped you out there - I've never done better than 48 mpg in my '08 over 3 consecutive tanks and the lifetime average is 45-46 mpg. Either way, it still costs about twice to fuel as driving the LEAF.

So no thanks - if there is public charging infrastructure that will let me make the drive in my LEAF - I'll just drive the LEAF. For that Vegas trip - I guess I need a Tesla. Too bad I didn't invest heavily in TSLA a couple months ago!

I don't care how they charge, I wil not give a dime to this company. ...

Well, that's at least one car people won't have to worry about waiting behind.

LOL!

 

[Deleted member 8423]

I don't care how they charge, I wil not give a dime to this company. If it is free I wil use it since my tax dollars funded their excessive waste and junk products. Just wait until they ruin the CP network with their new "partnership".

I'm interested to hear more about the source of your rage. Is there another thread of yours you can point me at? I've read a lot about the ridiculous estimates many companies were using for the "free" charger installs, but haven't heard widespread quality complaints. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 8423]

No chargers have been free except for the easy home L2 stations.

There are free Blink chargers in the Seattle area.

I don't see why so many people expect to pay the cost of residential electricity in a commercial setting and expect businesses to install thousands of stations across the country.

Didn't say I didn't want to pay.

I asked my question because everyone talks about the huge cost of infrastructure. If that's already been paid for, then it's maintenance + electricity. I was also wondering if Blink has been paying for the electricity at those stations or if it was covered by the government up to this point.

 

[Luft]

No chargers have been free except for the easy home L2 stations.

There are free Blink chargers in the Seattle area.

I don't see why so many people expect to pay the cost of residential electricity in a commercial setting and expect businesses to install thousands of stations across the country.

Didn't say I didn't want to pay.

I asked my question because everyone talks about the huge cost of infrastructure. If that's already been paid for, then it's maintenance + electricity. I was also wondering if Blink has been paying for the electricity at those stations or if it was covered by the government up to this point.

I know that there can be huge demand fees if a business draws more peek power then an arbitrary limit. I don't know if these limits are set by the power companies or by law. I do know that these fees can make cheap electricity for DC QC stations expensive. If these fees are set by law then the law needs to be changed. If these fees are set by the power companies then we need to force them to make an exception for charging stations so that the EV movement doesn't suffer.

 

[Turnover]

When you are traveling though an area of QC and L2's you might well want a 100% charge off the QC. I do a lot of "experimental" runs and you can't expect the next charging station to be up and running. (It would help if each person using a station would make a PlugShare entry so information would be current.)

There are a lot a variables. If someone needs a QC in a hurry they can ask or read the paper on the dashboard and give the driver a call.

I got into this because of the economics. I know Blink and the other providers have bugs to work out and these service calls are expensive. It may turn out too expensive for me and others if the costs can't be contained.

I know some keep up the 80% mantra, but from the recent research presented on battery degradation, it doesn't appear the 80% limit is hard and fast especially in the temperate Pacific NW.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

It would help if each person using a station would make a PlugShare entry so information would be current.

It would help even more if the charging companies automated this reporting so it was up to date.

 

[planet4ever]

I know that there can be huge demand fees if a business draws more peek power then an arbitrary limit. I don't know if these limits are set by the power companies or by law. I do know that these fees can make cheap electricity for DC QC stations expensive. If these fees are set by law then the law needs to be changed. If these fees are set by the power companies then we need to force them to make an exception for charging stations so that the EV movement doesn't suffer.

I'm no expert, but I believe in California it's kind of neither/both. The legislators write laws, and then the Public Utility Commission writes regulations to implement the laws. The power companies are required to follow the regulations. The PUC can and does write exceptions into their regulations, so I suspect that is where the pressure needs to be applied. But of course the people don't elect the commissioners. They are appointed by the Governor to six year terms, so even if we convince Jerry Brown there isn't anything he can do about it in the short term. That leaves the laws, but I imagine the legislature takes the big-picture view that they want to curb large users which impose loads that threaten to bring down the state's grid. People standing for election here are still very sensitive to what happened in 2000-2001.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

No chargers have been free except for the easy home L2 stations.

There are free Blink chargers in the Seattle area.

Businesses have had their entire install cost paid for? Or do you mean that there is no charge to charge at those Blink charging stations? Big difference. Host sites can elect to make their stations free if they wish, but it's very rare - I've never come across a free Blink L2 around here...

 

[cwerdna]

Uh, yeah, compared to the LEAF or any other EV:

Jerky power delivery: the Prius lurches off the line with an awful delay while you wait for the engine to turn over, the engine takes forever to spin up into it's peak power bank when you punch the accelerator even after it's running, and occasionally shudders when the engine shuts off as the car makes sure the engine is in the optimum position for restart.

Pollutes like crazy: Every time I start the thing up and I'm standing outside, the thing stinks nearly as bad as a 2-stroke lawn mower. Not to mention has at least double the CO2 emissions per mile of the LEAF on CA grid power never mind the solar panels on my roof.

But hey - maybe if you actually owned an EV instead of hanging out on all the EV forums you'd realize that. The Prius is really that bad to drive in comparison. As long as the range works for you, you never want to go back to driving a Prius after driving an EV.
...

Hey Drees: I don't know what model of Prius you're describing here; but mine sure as hell doesn't resemble what you've described. I drove my '06 from Las Vegas to San Diego a couple weeks ago (332 miles), non-stop, on 6.3 gal of 87 octane. I drove 70mph+ most of the way with air on. At $4 per gallon gas, that figures to be around 7 1/2 cents per mile. Never had to look for a charging station, or worry about range, either. I love my Leaf for local driving; but let's give credit where credit is due. :roll: :roll:

FWIW, I have an 06 Prius as well, so it's the same gen as drees'. As for the awful delay, the way I drive it, there isn't any perceptible delay. As for shudder, yes, there is sometimes that rough shutdown when you stop. Known quirk. At least there's no shift shock (like that of an automatic or manual transmission) when accelerating steadily.

Heh... yeah yeah, I've told my story a bunch of times. I'll be leasing that Leaf or buying a Rav4 EV soon enough but it could be a Volt , PiP or Fit EV. It depends on the circumstances of my future work. I am interviewing next week where there is workplace charging. It's unclear to me if it's free (or at a reasonable price) but the round trip to/from that place is well within the Leaf's range.

Besides my long story that I've posted a bunch of times before, for me, as a single guy and living in south SJ (far from everything), the Leaf's range can be a challenge.

Long ago, I was dating someone in SF. It's almost 60 miles one way, mostly highway (1:05 to ~1:20, one way w/o traffic). I could get there on a charge in a Leaf, but in SF, finding decent cheap enough parking can be a challenge and I'd need to charge either enroute (and be possibly late futzing w/looking around for CHAdeMO chargers that may/may not be down) or on the way home, to make it home. She lived in an older house in the Sunset District, so who knows what sort of electrical system it has? If we were still dating, if we wanted to go somewhere in a Leaf, forget about it. Can't go far. I'd be almost out of juice.

To make it home, if I can't charge while it's in/around SF, I need to QC somewhere and add 30+ mins to my trip home, possibly more if a QC is in use, I come across a busted one, etc.

If I were to go on a date w/someone where I wanted to go to a bunch of places beyond the Leaf's range and can't charge at the destinations (has happened many times WAY before the Leaf came out), I don't think I'd want to waste time looking for a working QC and hanging out at one....

 

[davewill]

Businesses have had their entire install cost paid for? Or do you mean that there is no charge to charge at those Blink charging stations? Big difference. Host sites can elect to make their stations free if they wish, but it's very rare - I've never come across a free Blink L2 around here...

I believe the site owner has to pay for the install and the electricity, but not the hardware and maintenance of the hardware. They split the fees with Blink.

 

[LEAFfan]

It would help if each person using a station would make a PlugShare entry so information would be current.

It would help even more if the charging companies automated this reporting so it was up to date.

I can only speak for Blink QCs. Their Blink QC map has always been very accurate for me. If a station is down, it shows it by color. When a station is working again, it is on the map within minutes. I used to use them often, so always checked their map ahead of time, and it was always up to date.

 

[camasleaf]

Yesterday I went to Fry's, about 40 miles form home. While I can do the round trip on a full charge, I knew there is this Blink DCQC right next to the store and I left the house at 80%. When I got there there was this black Leaf (with temporary tags) done charging on the left side and the right side was not working. I went into the store and an hour later I come out, the black Leaf is still there, still plugged in. He was parked almost over the right line, so I was able to park at an angle on his left and charge. (I will add pictures later). If that did not work I would have still been able to reach three more other DCQC.

I estimate that the black Leaf was there for about 2 hours. Does Blink realize they might loose revenue with this per sesion billing method? I believe they can monitor how long somebody is plugged in. They should charge a reasonable amount for the charging time and 10 times as much for the time you are plugged in and not charging. In the end, it migh get them more money.

 

[Randy]

No chargers have been free except for the easy home L2 stations.

There are free Blink chargers in the Seattle area.

Businesses have had their entire install cost paid for? Or do you mean that there is no charge to charge at those Blink charging stations? Big difference. Host sites can elect to make their stations free if they wish, but it's very rare - I've never come across a free Blink L2 around here...

The only free public/commercial Blinks I know of in the wild are the two Kohl's stores in Santee and Chula Vista. They are wrapped with the Kohl's message and they cover the cost for charging....

 

[aftabu]

I used Blink fast charger today and it was free. I thought
they were going to charge $5 per charge from 6/10.

Anybody knows what happened?


PS: I was at facebook campus in bayarea.

 

[LEAFfan]

I used Blink fast charger today and it was free. I thought
they were going to charge $5 per charge from 6/10.

Anybody knows what happened?


PS: I was at facebook campus in bayarea.

No, but I haven't been to one since they announced the charge for us June 3.
Now, I'm only going to use them for long-distance traveling because the last time I used one, my highest BS went to 112F/9 bars (over 100F ambient)!