EVSE Home Assessment Scheduling is Live!

[EVDRIVER]

"safety functions", like GFI, etc. Based on a 3.3kw charger this box is a bit silly since at 220V its 15A, similar to a standard cord on a European outlet. My factory EV had a 3.3 kw charger and the cord went right into a standard euro outlet and the end that plugged into the car at the wiper level looked like a jack from a microphone.

 

[garygid]

The "communication" is basically just an ON/OFF resistance value from the car (appropriate for ventilation-not-required vehicles).

From the EVSE (on the same wire), there is an indication of how many amps (max) are available (a square wave). There might be an indication of 120 or 240 volt power, but I am not sure.

Note: Even though there are 5 pins on the connector, only 4 leave the connector to go to the EVSE. A resistance to ground on the 5th tells the car that the connector is connected to the car, and perhaps which voltage level to expect.

Yes, the EVSE is basically a safety-switch, whose main job is to not apply power (close its internal power contacts) until the car asks for it, disconnect power if the connector starts to be unplugged, and to act as a GFI.

Not having any live voltage on an unplugged connector is the primary safety issue.

 

[Bicster]

I would bet Nissan may offer a charger upgrade option in August. Nissan states the charger spec as 3.3kw, if that is fixed the electrical requirement for 240V is very low, in fact if you have enough existing 12 gage standard wires from a location to the panel that would be adequate. A 3.3kw charger will only draw about 15A.

The J1772 spec allows the EVSE to offer power in 6A increments from 6A to 48A, so I presume the EVSE could be configured to offer 12A or 18A, but who knows if AV's EVSE will allow all of those settings.

I really wonder if charger upgrades will be possible on 2011 LEAFs. There may be a bunch of parts that require updates, not just the charger. I'd think if it was easy, they'd find a way to allow 6.6kW charging from the start.

 

[garygid]

Bicster, I sent you a PM.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The "communication" is basically just an ON/OFF resistance value from the car (appropriate for ventilation-not-required vehicles).

From the EVSE (on the same wire), there is an indication of how many amps (max) are available (a square wave). There might be an indication of 120 or 240 volt power, but I am not sure.

Note: Even though there are 5 pins on the connector, only 4 leave the connector to go to the EVSE. A resistance to ground on the 5th tells the car that the connector is connected to the car, and perhaps which voltage level to expect.

Yes, the EVSE is basically a safety-switch, whose main job is to not apply power (close its internal power contacts) until the car asks for it, disconnect power if the connector starts to be unplugged, and to act as a GFI.

Not having any live voltage on an unplugged connector is the primary safety issue.

This is the same deal as the AVCON, I built a circuit on my adaptor to tell the box I did not need fans and I was all "set to charge". I think that took one wire and a few dollars in parts. Having a cord live is not a big safety issue for competent individuals, a GFI works well. I wonder how Europeans have survived with their extension cords and no special interlock boxes, all at 220V Extra safety is always a good thing, I do think if Nissan requires this for 220 charging they should at least provide the benefit of 6.6kw or higher charging for the investment in such an expensive box. Some 3.3kw chargers cost this much, chargers not safety boxes. If users go to all this expense and are required to run wire over standard 12G the charger should take advantage of those improvements. Consider the requirements of the standard charger, they are quite low.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

has anyone actually talked to an electrician??? surely there must be a few on this board. well i have, and this one is actually interested in possibly getting a Leaf, and he states its really nothing to it.

now, maybe he is wrong. at the time, we had pretty limited knowledge of it and i will revisit this with him, but he stated the brains will be on the car and the EVSE will have nothing much to it. its no more than a dryer plug which requires a wide range of power output.

he also states that he thinks the product is waaaaay over priced and is part of the same old "new product intro" pricing. it will cost a fortune because no one else makes it and he said he could probably make one that would do the same thing AND pass code for much less.

but we wont know for sure until we start seeing these things and people start taking them apart

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would bet Nissan may offer a charger upgrade option in August. Nissan states the charger spec as 3.3kw, if that is fixed the electrical requirement for 240V is very low, in fact if you have enough existing 12 gage standard wires from a location to the panel that would be adequate. A 3.3kw charger will only draw about 15A.

The J1772 spec allows the EVSE to offer power in 6A increments from 6A to 48A, so I presume the EVSE could be configured to offer 12A or 18A, but who knows if AV's EVSE will allow all of those settings.

I really wonder if charger upgrades will be possible on 2011 LEAFs. There may be a bunch of parts that require updates, not just the charger. I'd think if it was easy, they'd find a way to allow 6.6kW charging from the start.

COST, larger chargers are more expensive, in the automotive cost schedule they are very high. I would gladly pay much more, 15A charging is a bit laughable for a modern EV. I had 25A on a ten year old factory EV.

 

[EVDRIVER]

has anyone actually talked to an electrician??? surely there must be a few on this board. well i have, and this one is actually interested in possibly getting a Leaf, and he states its really nothing to it.

now, maybe he is wrong. at the time, we had pretty limited knowledge of it and i will revisit this with him, but he stated the brains will be on the car and the EVSE will have nothing much to it. its no more than a dryer plug which requires a wide range of power output.

he also states that he thinks the product is waaaaay over priced and is part of the same old "new product intro" pricing. it will cost a fortune because no one else makes it and he said he could probably make one that would do the same thing AND pass code for much less.

but we wont know for sure until we start seeing these things and people start taking them apart

It does require some basic circuits and quality relays with contacts that will last. It is overpriced but it is not as basic as he makes it sound, like a dryer plug. I do electrical and low voltage for a living and I have made custom circuits to interface with these boxes before.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

has anyone actually talked to an electrician??? surely there must be a few on this board. well i have, and this one is actually interested in possibly getting a Leaf, and he states its really nothing to it.

now, maybe he is wrong. at the time, we had pretty limited knowledge of it and i will revisit this with him, but he stated the brains will be on the car and the EVSE will have nothing much to it. its no more than a dryer plug which requires a wide range of power output.

he also states that he thinks the product is waaaaay over priced and is part of the same old "new product intro" pricing. it will cost a fortune because no one else makes it and he said he could probably make one that would do the same thing AND pass code for much less.

but we wont know for sure until we start seeing these things and people start taking them apart

It does require some basic circuits and quality relays with contacts that will last. It is overpriced but it is not as basic as he makes it sound, like a dryer plug. I do electrical and low voltage for a living and I have made custom circuits to interface with these boxes before.

obviously a dryer plug analogy is oversimplifying my point (which i feel is the only way to get anything across sometimes)

the fact of the matter; the EVSE has NO BRAINS whatsoever. it only provides power. its nothing more than a fancy dancy socket. fine, equate it to your range plug, some of which needs to be hard wired but its nothing more to it and definitely nothing that justifies a $2000 price tag.

either way i rent. not getting one anyway. dont even have the option to have one installed based on someone else moving in at a later date that owns one. so i am out of the loop. one day, i will buy again. then we see what is available

 

[garygid]

Can your electrician friend get us a price for the uninstalled AV EVSE?

 

[sjfotos]

Can your electrician friend get us a price for the uninstalled AV EVSE?

I've received a quote of about $600 to run a dedicated line off my 200 AMP panel from the basement to the garage. That would include a sub-panel as mine is full and would naturally exclude the Nissan specified wall unit.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

his estimate was about the same. he purposefully went a bit overboard on specs to build one, but said would run $400-600.

as far as buying one; he doesnt have much of an opinion on that. well to be honest with u, he thinks anyone would be out of their mind to pay that much for one

 

[mitch672]

the entire concept of it costing $2200 is because there are so MANY "hands" involved.

The mfr of the EVSE needs to make a profit.
The electrician needs to make a profit, and there is more to it than just the wiring, it must be permited and inspected, all of that takes more of the electricians time, and time is money.

Also the $2200 is probably a set price, to cover some unexpected issues, and to cover most of the standard installations.

As I have stated before, I am not waiting, my service is being upgraded tommorow from 150A to 200A with a CSED mounted outdoors, to have 4 additional 2-pole breakers outside, 1 will run to the garage for an additional 100A subpanel, and 2 possibly for PV inverter tie-ins. I'm going to mount an L14-50R next to the panel on a 50A breaker, and provide a UL listed range cord, and see if they will connect that to the EVSE, or by the time it is availble in the Boston area, I fully expect to be able to buy just an EVSE on my own, and just wire in the 6 gauge range cord with the preterminated L14-50P on it to the EVSE and just plug it in to the outlet already setup..

 

[EVDRIVER]

the entire concept of it costing $2200 is because there are so MANY "hands" involved.

The mfr of the EVSE needs to make a profit.
The electrician needs to make a profit, and there is more to it than just the wiring, it must be permited and inspected, all of that takes more of the electricians time, and time is money.

Also the $2200 is probably a set price, to cover some unexpected issues, and to cover most of the standard installations.

As I have stated before, I am not waiting, my service is being upgraded tommorow from 150A to 200A with a CSED mounted outdoors, to have 4 additional 2-pole breakers outside, 1 will run to the garage for an additional 100A subpanel, and 2 possibly for PV inverter tie-ins. I'm going to mount an L14-50R next to the panel on a 50A breaker, and provide a UL listed range cord, and see if they will connect that to the EVSE, or by the time it is availble in the Boston area, I fully expect to be able to buy just an EVSE on my own, and just wire in the 6 gauge range cord with the preterminated L14-50P on it to the EVSE and just plug it in to the outlet already setup..

Good approach with the sub panel. I would recommend the possibility of a second meter box connection at the main panel if your utility offers EV metering, if you are doing all the work and the electrician is there it may make sense for now or in the future, even more so if you go to solar metering rates.

 

[mitch672]

the entire concept of it costing $2200 is because there are so MANY "hands" involved.

The mfr of the EVSE needs to make a profit.
The electrician needs to make a profit, and there is more to it than just the wiring, it must be permited and inspected, all of that takes more of the electricians time, and time is money.

Also the $2200 is probably a set price, to cover some unexpected issues, and to cover most of the standard installations.

As I have stated before, I am not waiting, my service is being upgraded tommorow from 150A to 200A with a CSED mounted outdoors, to have 4 additional 2-pole breakers outside, 1 will run to the garage for an additional 100A subpanel, and 2 possibly for PV inverter tie-ins. I'm going to mount an L14-50R next to the panel on a 50A breaker, and provide a UL listed range cord, and see if they will connect that to the EVSE, or by the time it is availble in the Boston area, I fully expect to be able to buy just an EVSE on my own, and just wire in the 6 gauge range cord with the preterminated L14-50P on it to the EVSE and just plug it in to the outlet already setup..

Good approach with the sub panel. I would recommend the possibility of a second meter box connection at the main panel if your utility offers EV metering, if you are doing all the work and the electrician is there it may make sense for now or in the future, even more so if you go to solar metering rates.

We don't have any type of EV rate yet in Massachusetts (yet), we are very backwards. There is a "Time Of Use" rate, if you use more than 2500KW per month, but the meter charge alone is over $30, so that won't apply for now. Since the 100A subpanel is being run off the CSED located at the meter, it would be a simple matter at a later time to add a 2nd meter, since the cable is right there, and the main purpose of the 100A subpanel is for EV charging (there is already a 60A service to the garage, generator backed up)... to be honest, the Solar will probably happen before the car, and my entire "main" panel is sent through a generator transfer switch, which won't work with PV, the PV tie in must be before the transfer switch (code). Also, there are no breaker positions left in the main panel either.. I am working "with" the electrician (who is a friend of mine), I bought all of the parts, he is getting the permits and he will get the meter changed out to the CSED, wire the weatherheads end, etc, I will be asisting.

 

[planet4ever]

the entire concept of it costing $2200 is because there are so MANY "hands" involved.

The mfr of the EVSE needs to make a profit.
The electrician needs to make a profit, and there is more to it than just the wiring, it must be permited and inspected, all of that takes more of the electricians time, and time is money.

Also the $2200 is probably a set price, to cover some unexpected issues, and to cover most of the standard installations.

I agree, except for one very important point that everyone seems to be overlooking. There is no $2200 set price. That is merely an estimate by Nissan of the average cost of the box, wiring, conduit, labor, permits, etc. Every case will be different, and the price for your house will be given to you shortly after the nice man from AeroVironment comes out to do your assessment.

I'm guessing here, but if you bought the EVSE box by itself from AeroVironment I doubt if it would cost more than $200. Sure, you'll be able to get them cheaper elsewhere, but you might save $100 at most, and you could easily waste more than that trying to find your own electrical contractor.

 

[EVDRIVER]

the entire concept of it costing $2200 is because there are so MANY "hands" involved.

The mfr of the EVSE needs to make a profit.
The electrician needs to make a profit, and there is more to it than just the wiring, it must be permited and inspected, all of that takes more of the electricians time, and time is money.

Also the $2200 is probably a set price, to cover some unexpected issues, and to cover most of the standard installations.

I agree, except for one very important point that everyone seems to be overlooking. There is no $2200 set price. That is merely an estimate by Nissan of the average cost of the box, wiring, conduit, labor, permits, etc. Every case will be different, and the price for your house will be given to you shortly after the nice man from AeroVironment comes out to do your assessment.

I'm guessing here, but if you bought the EVSE box by itself from AeroVironment I doubt if it would cost more than $200. Sure, you'll be able to get them cheaper elsewhere, but you might save $100 at most, and you could easily waste more than that trying to find your own electrical contractor.

I bet the wholesale cost of that box from Aero is more than $400. No way is anyone getting one for $200. I think you are way off. What do you estimate just the cost of the connector without the cord and box?

 

[Rat]

Despite posting that I couldn't bring myself to input my credit card number and would wait to see how others fare, after reading AutoBlogGreen today saying Nissan's move was trying to weed out those who weren't serious about buying, I chickened out and went ahead and scheduled the assessment. July 9. I guess that means I'm not only a cheapskate but a coward, too.

That doesn't mean I'll pay the $2200. I'll wait to see if a secondary market develops, and if I don't like the Leaf on a test drive, I guess I'll just have to eat the $100. It shouldn't be that high for me since I already have a 200A panel and an unused 220 dryer outlet in the garage. He should be able to just run that circuit over to the other side of the garage and near the main door so that I can use it to charge in the garage, or park outside on the driveway and run the cord underneath the door to charge there, too. Of course, this is Los Altos and everything here costs more, even though I live in the "low rent district" of "South Central L.A." as we call it around here. Everything's relative.

 

[DeaneG]

Interesting, I'm in Cupertino (near "south central L.A.", but poorer) and the earliest date I could get was July 19. I checked back just now and they had opened up the preceding weeks to July 1. I changed my date to July 8 (don't want to be the first test case).

Maybe they added another survey person?

 

[mm2001]

In the fwiw department, I had scheduled a quote for Sun June 20th (see earlier in this thread) and got two confirmation emails yesterday, but today a rep from AeroVironment called and said there had been a mistake and they weren't doing any quotes before July 1. Back to the end of the queue for me . Ah well, it will give me more time to evaluate other wiring options and alternative suppliers of the charging box.